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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-16-2008, 5:37 PM
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Default Do I need a large or small primer pocket uniformer for .308?

Do I need a large or small primer pocket uniformer for .308?
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Old 07-16-2008, 5:39 PM
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large, but why dont you buy the possum hollow uniformer? one side is for large, one side is for small.

here is a link, http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...053&t=11082005

the cutters are fully adjustable for length individually, and they are carbide, so they will last forever.
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Old 07-16-2008, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Do I need a large or small primer pocket uniformer for .308?
Do you use LARGE rifle primers or SMALL rifle primers for your .308?

That would be your answer to your question too.
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2008, 6:03 PM
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I do not know, thats why I'm asking. I was told to purchase a primer pocket uniformer--Never the size.
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Old 07-16-2008, 6:11 PM
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Old 07-16-2008, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Do I need a large or small primer pocket uniformer for .308?
You need to buy a reloading manual and READ IT first.
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2008, 8:53 PM
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while you are at it, pick up one of these too

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...748&t=11082005
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2008, 9:19 PM
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I purchased a sinclair flash hole deburring tool.

An NRA high power shoot was kind enough to invite me over and show me the main points of reloading and gave me a list of equipment to get. We did not go through brass prep but he detailed the importance of the pocket uniformers and so forth. He just never mentioned which size applied to .308. I have the Sierra reloading manual on order.
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Old 07-16-2008, 9:33 PM
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no need for a primer pocket uniformer. it's a waste of money. if you have good brass that shouldn't be an issue. if anything save up money for a giraud trimmer. i wish i had that. that thing does everything at once, trims, deburs, and champhers. only thing that you might want to do is clean the primer pockets, that's pretty much all you should do.
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Old 07-16-2008, 9:53 PM
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no need for a primer pocket uniformer. it's a waste of money. if you have good brass that shouldn't be an issue. if anything save up money for a giraud trimmer. i wish i had that. that thing does everything at once, trims, deburs, and champhers. only thing that you might want to do is clean the primer pockets, that's pretty much all you should do.
A primer pocket uniformer doubles as great primer pocket cleaner too. And uniforming primer pockets has never hurt accuracy, the opposite of that statement can not be said.
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  #11  
Old 07-16-2008, 10:46 PM
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Dude, after i saw the ginormous wall of trophies and winnings, I'm more inclined to trust the NRA high power shooter. lol.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:07 PM
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this wouldnt be a bad idea though

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=467111
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2008, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Dude, after i saw the ginormous wall of trophies and winnings, I'm more inclined to trust the NRA high power shooter. lol.
Ask 10 different high power guys with ginormous walls of trophies how to reload, and you'll probably get 10 different ways to do it.
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Old 07-17-2008, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Dude, after i saw the ginormous wall of trophies and winnings, I'm more inclined to trust the NRA high power shooter. lol.
Cutting pockets probably didn't earn him one single point. It's a realy PITA (as is any case prep task that involves a cutter) and I've seen good data which shows it's benefits are zilch at 200yds.

If you're shooting a gasgun and want to buy a little extra insurance against slamfire, then go right ahead. Make sure your cutter (and this goes for any other sort of cutter you might be tempted to apply) can be spun by a drill/drill press/other working motor you have in your possession.

Otherwise, buy decent brass (win or LC) and save yourself a lot of effort spent for pretty much zero gain.

Last edited by 30Cal; 07-17-2008 at 8:06 AM..
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2008, 10:13 AM
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Uniforming pockets with the Possum Hollow uniformer takes about 3-4seconds per case. I just chuck the cutter on my drill and go at it. I did the same thing with the Lyman flash hole deburring tool. With a drill, its pretty quick and painless.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2008, 10:58 AM
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Uniforming pockets with the Possum Hollow uniformer takes about 3-4seconds per case. I just chuck the cutter on my drill and go at it. I did the same thing with the Lyman flash hole deburring tool. With a drill, its pretty quick and painless.
Depends on how many cases you need to run through really. 100 isn't all that bad, even if you make the mistake of doing them by hand. 500+ cases and you start to ask whether it's worthwhile.

I generally work with batches of 1000-2500 pieces of brass.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:38 AM
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I don't use a pocket uniformer either. I believe in removing as little brass
from a case as possible, especially when it comes to a primer pocket.
They get loose over time anyway, no need to rush the process.
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  #18  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:52 AM
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I uniform primer pockets everytime I prime - chuck the cutter in my drill and here we go. I have the depth set so I never go deeper than wanted. Its important to have a uniform pocket to square the primer and important to clean the pocket to get uniform ignition (ergo low ES and SD = reduced verticle stringing when ya shootin a fer peice) But to each his own (as I dust my trophies and plaques)
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:20 PM
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Cutting pockets probably didn't earn him one single point. It's a realy PITA (as is any case prep task that involves a cutter) and I've seen good data which shows it's benefits are zilch at 200yds.
I'm not shooting out to 200. I'm shooting out to 1000.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:49 PM
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LOL! At 1000yds, I would think wind doping would be far more important than
pocket uniforming.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2008, 1:01 PM
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LOL! At 1000yds, I would think wind doping would be far more important than
pocket uniforming.
At 1k, time spent on the range would be more beneficial than performing trivial tasks behind a bench. Once you've burned up a few barrels and you're at the top of your game, then the little things make a difference.
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Old 07-17-2008, 1:02 PM
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LOL! At 1000yds, I would think wind doping would be far more important than
pocket uniforming.
both are equally important - at 1K low ES and SD are essentail unless you want a nice verticle string - the key to low ES and SD is, amoung other things, uniform ignition.

From 100 to 600 it matter little but that and beyond it comes into play.
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Old 07-17-2008, 2:29 PM
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If I were you, I'd make an honest evaluation of my skills and ask if the possible extra work in primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburring is going to give any meaningful return. In my opinion you have to be a Master or High Master class long range shooter before you'd see a difference in scores. I shoot NRA Highpower out to 600 and have a Master classification. I don't uniform primer pockets or debur flashholes and I load my rounds progressively through a Dillon 550 with metered powder loads and I don't see that the ammo is holding my scores back.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Ask 10 different high power guys with ginormous walls of trophies how to reload, and you'll probably get 10 different ways to do it.
True story!! But the other 9 of them are competing for second place or worse!!!

Does cutting primer pockets help? Maybe
Does cutting primer pockets hurt? No

If it keeps just one X from being a 10, or one 10 from being a 9, it was worth it. We are talking about .01" or maybe even .001".

Agreed, range time is critical and precious. With that said, it is not generally a trade-off of range time -vs- reloading time. Reloading can be done in small time segments, at night, and when ranges are not available. Load the best ammo you can, so when at the range you don't question your ammo or rifle. It is a HUGE waste of time to finally get out to the range and shoot marginal ammo. You learn almost nothing about: your ammo, your rifle, your shooting ability, your wind reading skills, etc. Why EXACTLY did that bullet impact where it did?!

I have no problem with people who don't: weight sort and prep brass, weight sort bullets, weigh powder charges, and ammo test. It just makes them SO much easier to defeat on the range. We shoot with a tough crowd at Sac Valley. Present at last weekends matches were the 2008 State Champions for: Palma, Fullbore, Highpower Match Rifle, and Highpower Service Rifle. Also had team members from the U.S. Veterans Team and the U.S. Palma Team, and the #3 shooter in the Long-Range World Championships.

Bottom line - cutting primer pockets never HURTS anything.

Lane
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ahhnother8 View Post
True story!! But the other 9 of them are competing for second place or worse!!!

Does cutting primer pockets help? Maybe
Does cutting primer pockets hurt? No

If it keeps just one X from being a 10, or one 10 from being a 9, it was worth it. We are talking about .01" or maybe even .001".

Agreed, range time is critical and precious. With that said, it is not generally a trade-off of range time -vs- reloading time. Reloading can be done in small time segments, at night, and when ranges are not available. Load the best ammo you can, so when at the range you don't question your ammo or rifle. It is a HUGE waste of time to finally get out to the range and shoot marginal ammo. You learn almost nothing about: your ammo, your rifle, your shooting ability, your wind reading skills, etc. Why EXACTLY did that bullet impact where it did?!

I have no problem with people who don't: weight sort and prep brass, weight sort bullets, weigh powder charges, and ammo test. It just makes them SO much easier to defeat on the range. We shoot with a tough crowd at Sac Valley. Present at last weekends matches were the 2008 State Champions for: Palma, Fullbore, Highpower Match Rifle, and Highpower Service Rifle. Also had team members from the U.S. Veterans Team and the U.S. Palma Team, and the #3 shooter in the Long-Range World Championships.

Bottom line - cutting primer pockets never HURTS anything.

Lane
I asked Jim O' one time what he does. His response was that he just pulls the blue handle. Even for 600yds? Yep. This was WRT to service rifle. I don't know if he does the same for long range, but it wouldn't surprise me.

To each his own. The match is won between the earmuffs. If you need to spend time at the reloading bench to get your mental right, then so be it.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2008, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahhnother8 View Post
True story!! But the other 9 of them are competing for second place or worse!!!

Does cutting primer pockets help? Maybe
Does cutting primer pockets hurt? No

If it keeps just one X from being a 10, or one 10 from being a 9, it was worth it. We are talking about .01" or maybe even .001".

Agreed, range time is critical and precious. With that said, it is not generally a trade-off of range time -vs- reloading time. Reloading can be done in small time segments, at night, and when ranges are not available. Load the best ammo you can, so when at the range you don't question your ammo or rifle. It is a HUGE waste of time to finally get out to the range and shoot marginal ammo. You learn almost nothing about: your ammo, your rifle, your shooting ability, your wind reading skills, etc. Why EXACTLY did that bullet impact where it did?!

I have no problem with people who don't: weight sort and prep brass, weight sort bullets, weigh powder charges, and ammo test. It just makes them SO much easier to defeat on the range. We shoot with a tough crowd at Sac Valley. Present at last weekends matches were the 2008 State Champions for: Palma, Fullbore, Highpower Match Rifle, and Highpower Service Rifle. Also had team members from the U.S. Veterans Team and the U.S. Palma Team, and the #3 shooter in the Long-Range World Championships.

Bottom line - cutting primer pockets never HURTS anything.

Lane
I have a long way to go before uniforming primer pockets is holding my scores back. I think some people need to realize that. Not saying it wont help, but where do you draw the line? Weight sort everything into .5 grain batches? Measure each bullet base to ojive? Turn necks? Trim or point meplats? I've seen a lot of guys do all of that and get beat by the guy that shot factory. Doesn't happen all the time, but then again, the guys who brass prep like crazy are usually the best trigger pullers anyway.
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Old 07-18-2008, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rksimple View Post
I have a long way to go before uniforming primer pockets is holding my scores back. I think some people need to realize that. Not saying it wont help, but where do you draw the line?
When the level of your competition dictates that the rifle and ammo be capable of 1/4 moa accuracy out to 1000 yards, for 12 to 22 shots in as many minutes, and the shooter be capable of a sub 1/2 moa hold for the same. Palma matches are often won on X count, not cleans.

Lane is at that level. Me, not so much. Last Sunday Lane only dropped 1 point out of 60 shots fired for record in a prone match, with better than 50% X count. I scored 2 of his strings of fire and I would say that 75% or more of his shots were inside 1 moa.
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Old 07-18-2008, 7:36 PM
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When the level of your competition dictates that the rifle and ammo be capable of 1/4 moa accuracy out to 1000 yards, for 12 to 22 shots in as many minutes, and the shooter be capable of a sub 1/2 moa hold for the same. Palma matches are often won on X count, not cleans.

Lane is at that level. Me, not so much. Last Sunday Lane only dropped 1 point out of 60 shots fired for record in a prone match, with better than 50% X count. I scored 2 of his strings of fire and I would say that 75% or more of his shots were inside 1 moa.
I agree completely. If I had that level of skill, my reloading practices may be much different.
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Old 07-18-2008, 8:22 PM
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Thanks Pthfndr, but don't sell yourself short. If you shot a gun made this century, it would help!! I believe that many people sell themselves short on trigger pulling ability. It isn't that difficult.

Many of the brass prep and loading "tricks" are not expensive, just time consuming. But range time is expensive AND time consuming. As previously stated, "to each his own", but with suggestions from people on this and other boards, the learning curve can be shortened considerably!! This is a great sport where there really are no secrets, one just has to ask the right questions to the right people. And watch out for all the knuckledraggers out there, who spend more time on the keyboard than on the trigger.

Quote:
Not saying it wont help, but where do you draw the line? Weight sort everything into .5 grain batches? Measure each bullet base to ojive? Turn necks? Trim or point meplats?
That is the ultimate question. Personal perspective - hold the bar very high with regards to ammo and rifle, and learn to shoot. Then start ELIMINATING brass prep and loading techniques, and see if it makes a difference. In the meantime, any shot that does not hit center is due to the wind or the shooter. Fix that by learning to read the wind and how to pull the trigger. Now, was that so difficult?

Lane
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Old 07-18-2008, 9:42 PM
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Lane-are you shooting Vu's big norcal match? I'm sure there are tons of questions I have that you could answer.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:44 PM
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to each his own on the reloading game. i don't know about y'all, but i rather shoot then sit at home and reload. just use good brass, trim after every 4 firings, and clean primer pockets every other firing. if you use solid, quality components your es and sd should be within reasonable tolerances. good enough for tactical shooting.

Last edited by PistolPete75; 07-18-2008 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:47 PM
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Lane-are you shooting Vu's big norcal match? I'm sure there are tons of questions I have that you could answer.
I don't think Lane likes those tubular things with the glass in them to be on top of his rifle...
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jandmtv View Post
A primer pocket uniformer doubles as great primer pocket cleaner too. And uniforming primer pockets has never hurt accuracy, the opposite of that statement can not be said.
a primer pocket uniformer will also shave brass off the primer pocket. do it too much and you'll ruin the brass.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:42 PM
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I don't think Lane likes those tubular things with the glass in them to be on top of his rifle...
Unless he shot this match with peeps:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=109793

Looks like #27.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:55 PM
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Unless he shot this match with peeps:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=109793

Looks like #27.
He may have.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:04 AM
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He may have.
And if so he's the man. I'll never be that good!
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  #37  
Old 07-19-2008, 12:23 AM
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jandmtv jandmtv is online now
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Originally Posted by PistolPete75 View Post
a primer pocket uniformer will also shave brass off the primer pocket. do it too much and you'll ruin the brass.
Sorry but, how would you "do it too much" if the tool is adjusted to a certain dept, and it stops cutting once it touches the head?
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  #38  
Old 07-19-2008, 7:47 PM
Ahhnother8 Ahhnother8 is offline
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Lane-are you shooting Vu's big norcal match? I'm sure there are tons of questions I have that you could answer.
No - I sucked at the ONE match I tried!!

I threw a Leopold 6.5x20 on my Palma rifle, with a tapered base. I use this scope on various rifles for load testing, and have shot MANY groups under 1/4" with it, so I know it doesn't drift. I fired a few shots at each yard line a couple of weeks before the match, for my zeros. Turns out that at each line the day of the match, the scope would be 1-3 minutes off of my zeros. I just don't think it was tracking true. Also noticed that a 1/4 MOA click didn't seem true either. With iron sights, my zeros are dead on, so it was VERY discouraging to say the least. And in the match program they forgot to mention the 2 shots in 6 seconds stages - kinda tough for a single shot rifle with no ejector!!

I think I learned enough to be dangerous next time though. Might have to throw a taped base on the AR, and borrow a better scope. Precision Shooting had an article on breaking-in scopes that I just read, so I have started on that process too. Will be preparing for the America's Match in Raton, New Mexico in September, so will be spending all available time on the bolt-gun until then. The weather will be nicer in the Fall/Winter also.

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Unless he shot this match with peeps:
- No. Have not figured out how to do it with the silhouette target. Would also have to carry a spotting scope around - no thanks. Am still trying to figure out how best to compete without spending a ton of money. Will be back in due course...

Lane
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  #39  
Old 07-19-2008, 7:51 PM
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Am still trying to figure out how best to compete without spending a ton of money.
We all are...
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  #40  
Old 07-19-2008, 8:03 PM
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Lane-I'm sure you could kick a** with a stock 700p and bushnell 3200 10x. I guess the rapid fire stages would be hard without an ejector! Good job nonetheless.
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