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  #1  
Old 08-28-2015, 8:57 PM
nightwolf0215 nightwolf0215 is offline
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Default Home build question

From what I've understood, it is legal to build a gun for your own use as long as you do not manufacture an illegal firearms. And you do not have to (but are recommended to) engrave your info, city, model, caliber, and a serial onto the newly built receiver.

What if you build a gun out of state? Say hypothetically a person visits a friend in AZ. Participate in an AK build party there, and build a CA legal AK (bullet button or featureless, etc). Could that person bring the firearms back to CA?
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Old 08-28-2015, 9:10 PM
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Negative, that would run afoul of federal interstate transfer laws: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

You'd need to ship it to your FFL in CA and DROS it to yourself...

Also, I've never seen or heard anyone recommending you engrave/serialize your home builds, it's only required for sale or sending your firearm off for work/gunsmithing.
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Old 08-28-2015, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwolf0215 View Post
From what I've understood, it is legal to build a gun for your own use as long as you do not manufacture an illegal firearms. And you do not have to (but are recommended to) engrave your info, city, model, caliber, and a serial onto the newly built receiver.

What if you build a gun out of state? Say hypothetically a person visits a friend in AZ. Participate in an AK build party there, and build a CA legal AK (bullet button or featureless, etc). Could that person bring the firearms back to CA?
No.

Assuming that you are a California resident, your proposed action would be a felony.

Please refer to 18 USC 922(a)(3).

The issue is with your receiving (by virtue of your manufacture) of a firearm outside your state of residency and then bringing it into your state of residency.
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:26 PM
nightwolf0215 nightwolf0215 is offline
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Thanks for the response guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
Negative, that would run afoul of federal interstate transfer laws: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

You'd need to ship it to your FFL in CA and DROS it to yourself...

Also, I've never seen or heard anyone recommending you engrave/serialize your home builds, it's only required for sale or sending your firearm off for work/gunsmithing.
Would it be classified as an interstate transfer? If a person manufacture a firearm for their own use at an out-of-state facilities, wouldn't that firearm belong to that builder already? Then move it back to CA would simply be transporting their firearm back to CA? Im a bit unclear on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
No.

Assuming that you are a California resident, your proposed action would be a felony.

Please refer to 18 USC 922(a)(3).

The issue is with your receiving (by virtue of your manufacture) of a firearm outside your state of residency and then bringing it into your state of residency.
I see. So the potential issue would come from manufacturing a firearm out of state, which could be viewed as receiving a firearm outside my state of residency.

Would the scenario be any different if one were to be an 07 FFL?
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwolf0215 View Post
Thanks for the response guys.



Would it be classified as an interstate transfer? If a person manufacture a firearm for their own use at an out-of-state facilities, wouldn't that firearm belong to that builder already? Then move it back to CA would simply be transporting their firearm back to CA? Im a bit unclear on that.



I see. So the potential issue would come from manufacturing a firearm out of state, which could be viewed as receiving a firearm outside my state of residency.

Would the scenario be any different if one were to be an 07 FFL?

You should check the link I pasted, the full law is written, but basically:

Interstate transfer is governed by a combination of Federal and State laws. 18 USC 922 (a) makes it unlawful

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides
(or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a
place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:56 AM
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Slightly off topic here, I want to do my own home build but all the drilling and milling in the drill press with the jigs looks like it could take all day (at least) I've heard two things

Build parties are frowned on or maybe outlawed Completely?

But there may be some individuals with better equipment that can help me with mine?

Any Ideas?
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2015, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohica435 View Post
Slightly off topic here, I want to do my own home build but all the drilling and milling in the drill press with the jigs looks like it could take all day (at least) I've heard two things

Build parties are frowned on or maybe outlawed Completely?

But there may be some individuals with better equipment that can help me with mine?

Any Ideas?


Hello ATF......nice screen name.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2015, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohica435 View Post
Slightly off topic here, I want to do my own home build but all the drilling and milling in the drill press with the jigs looks like it could take all day (at least) I've heard two things

1. Build parties are frowned on or maybe outlawed Completely?

2. But there may be some individuals with better equipment that can help me with mine?

3. Any Ideas?
In short...

1. Yes, build parties are now illegal.

2. Not legal.

3. Do it yourself with your own tools.
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2015, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
No.



The issue is with your receiving (by virtue of your manufacture) of a firearm outside your state of residency and then bringing it into your state of residency.



How can he be receiving when it sounds like he ""Will""
just be attending a build party


"" op "" goes out of state to make a 80% for himself
and brings it back. And that is "" Illegal ""


------------------------

3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a
place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State


I have been under the impression it is manufactured arms.


Not 80s to 100
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Last edited by uxo2; 09-14-2015 at 11:44 AM..
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2015, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uxo2 View Post
How can he be receiving when it sounds like he ""Will""
just be attending a build party


"" op "" goes out of state to make a 80% for himself
and brings it back. And that is "" Illegal ""


------------------------

3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a
place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State


I have been under the impression it is manufactured arms.


Not 80s to 100
Because the person is not licensed as an importer (Type 08 FFL), manufacturer (Type 07 FFL), or dealer (Type 02 FFL) and acquired a firearm in a State in which the person does not reside in.

If the person returns with a firearm (includes complete receiver), then that person violated Federal laws.
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  #11  
Old 09-14-2015, 1:27 PM
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Example...
Rifle Dynamics AK builder class is a three day event, in which an attendee builds an AK from parts under Rifle Dynamics's supervision/tools. Since it's under their supervision, it's being built under their Type 02 FFL (attendee is considered a temporary employee/independent contractor) and the firearms that were made are marked with their information.

Non-residents that attended the class do not get to take the firearms they built, instead they are collected and shipped to FFL dealers in the States in which the non-residents reside in. Those FFL dealers then transfer (in accordance to Federal & State laws) the firearms to the non-residents that build them.


Basically...
1. Resident of State A travels to State B and builds a firearm from a 0% receiver.
2. Resident of State A can not legally bring the firearm back to State A. Because doing so violates Federal laws.
3. Resident of State A must ship the firearm to a FFL dealer in State A, who then transfers it (in accordance with Federal & State laws) to the Resident of State A.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-14-2015 at 1:33 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2015, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uxo2 View Post
How can he be receiving when it sounds like he ""Will""
just be attending a build party


"" op "" goes out of state to make a 80% for himself
and brings it back. And that is "" Illegal ""


------------------------

3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a
place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State


I have been under the impression it is manufactured arms.


Not 80s to 100
Quiet gave a pretty good response, but let me expand.

The term "receive" is not defined in statute. That leaves us with the common usage of the word governing. Webster's defines the word as "to come into possession of".

Please keep in mind that the ATF does not recognize, or use, the terms 80%, 100% or any other partial value to define a firearm. Under federal law an object either is, or is not, a firearm.

When the subject goes to the build party in Arizona, he is taking a chunk of metal that is not a firearm with him. When he returns, he is bringing a firearm back with him. He came into possession (by virtue of manufacturing) the firearm while in Arizona. He has therefore "received" the firearm while out of state. It is irrelevant that he transported the same chunk of metal that became the firearm to Arizona. It's not the chunk of metal that has the legal significance. It's the firearm that carries the legal significance.

There is nothing within 18 USC 922(a)(3) that limits its application to commercially manufactured firearms.

Last edited by RickD427; 09-14-2015 at 1:50 PM..
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2015, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
Hello ATF......
Man, this joke sure is tired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by uxo2 View Post
I have been under the impression it is manufactured arms.

Not 80s to 100
What do you think the difference is? Legally, there really isn't one.
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Last edited by strongpoint; 09-17-2015 at 7:23 PM..
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2015, 3:48 PM
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Quiet.

Thank for putting it at Rock level.
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