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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 08-10-2015, 11:18 PM
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I do hope you post the name, address, phone number of every person and co-conspirator in the LAPD involved in this injustice!!!
.

.
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  #42  
Old 08-11-2015, 2:12 PM
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The amount of evidence (previous lawsuit, resultant written policy they ignored, repeated documented contacts by counsel to LAPD over the years, etc.) seems overwhelming.

There's nothing that irks me more than the law thinking theyre above the law. A culture of corruption like this reminds me of Mexico... Go get em

Jury trial, indeed.
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  #43  
Old 08-11-2015, 8:30 PM
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I just read the complaint. Wow, is all I can say. RICO violations and everything. Let's hope the culprits get what's coming to them.
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  #44  
Old 08-14-2015, 12:51 PM
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Appalling, justice be swift.
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  #45  
Old 08-14-2015, 12:51 PM
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Police and local government corruption like this is why the public was rooting for Christopher Dorner when he went postal and started hunting police and their families.

And that's why there will be another Dorner eventually. And another. And another....
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  #46  
Old 08-14-2015, 3:19 PM
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This case cries out for punitive damages.
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  #47  
Old 08-14-2015, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
This case cries out for punitive damages.
It's a shame those punitive damages can't come from the bank accounts and future earnings/pensions of the individuals who stole Mr. Wright's firearms.
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  #48  
Old 08-14-2015, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
yeah, it seems like they lead Mr. Wright around like a mule with a carrot

they never had any intentions of giving him back his firearms...they use the detective to play nice guy, "we're working on it", all the while they already knew they had a different agenda

Beck is a disgrace, nothing more than a tool...they all think they are above they law, mainly because they know they'll never be held personally accountable
If they lose I wonder if a defense attorney, down the line, can drop 'don't you work under someone who lost a rico suit? Why should we take you at your word or assume you're acting in good faith? Your org is known criminal conspiracy'... not just the officers, but prosecutors too... re: use it as a way to hound them out of their jobs... make them professionally radioactive so they can't go to court as part of their job.

I read about a judge in another state refusing to let staff from the local prosecutor's office in his courtroom. The head of it was under investigation.... It was the judge's way to force him to resign...

Last edited by sl0re10; 08-14-2015 at 9:13 PM..
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  #49  
Old 08-14-2015, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thorium View Post
The amount of evidence (previous lawsuit, resultant written policy they ignored, repeated documented contacts by counsel to LAPD over the years, etc.) seems overwhelming.

There's nothing that irks me more than the law thinking theyre above the law. A culture of corruption like this reminds me of Mexico... Go get em

Jury trial, indeed.
There are enough people who think civilians shouldn't have guns that I'm not sure I'd want a jury trial, going before a judge might be better (or might not, depending on the judge).
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  #50  
Old 08-14-2015, 9:07 PM
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What would happen if someone caught in one of these scams filed papers that the guns were stolen and then name the PD as the thieves?
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  #51  
Old 08-14-2015, 9:16 PM
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What would happen if someone caught in one of these scams filed papers that the guns were stolen and then name the PD as the thieves?
They'd probably find themselves charged with filing a false police report.

This happens quite a bit where there are disputes over property possession.
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  #52  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:25 PM
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They'd probably find themselves charged with filing a false police report.

This happens quite a bit where there are disputes over property possession.
Just more of the same old using the rope we paid for to hang us with.

What's to dispute?

If something was wrongly taken and then destroyed by a "citizen". That citizen is branded a criminal and a thief and pays a price for their illegal acts.

If someone is a Civil Servant and does the same. It is just business as usual. They do so with impunity, while snubbing their noses at the lowly citizens who dare defy them, while cashing the paychecks those same citizens provide. Then use the same taxpayers dollars to defend their actions.

Where is the line drawn between a thief, and a protected thief? Between a Prosecutor and a Persecutor? Between Law Enforcement and Law Breakers?

No one in LE will dare cross the blue line, and arrest one of their own for these blatant transgressions. What is left in the way of justice for the common man?

If a group of citizen criminals band together and commit robberies. They get the charges of CONSPIRACY added onto their rap sheet. And they are labeled a GANG.

If a bunch of civil servants conspire to deny someone their rights and property by breaking the law. They are called cops and given nice salaries and cushy pensions.

All these law suits don't have any effect because of Qualified Immunity. In this case the same city, is being sued again for the same crime. Only thing that has changed is the man at the top. Same crook/different name. Same crime/different date. Same GANG/LAPD.

Does anyone really think Chief Matsuda gives a crap that the City of Torrance lost $30,000 dollars to Mr Roberts for this same crime a few months ago?

Does anyone think Beck is worried about this suit? Oh Hell No, because it won't cost him a dime.

And when LA loses, the BSM will just pimp the spin that Beck is being chastised by the NRA and every other Gun Nut Group for trying to make LA safer by getting guns off the street.

I would love to see Beck and his Gun Squad, along with the Lying Persecutor be charge with. And found guilty of RICO conspiracy charges. Maybe then we taxpaying citizens will get our moneys worth.



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  #53  
Old 08-15-2015, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
Police and local government corruption like this is why the public was rooting for Christopher Dorner when he went postal and started hunting police and their families.

And that's why there will be another Dorner eventually. And another. And another....
I wouldn't consider that respectable people in the domain of the public, would be supporting, such a murdering nutjob. Why they need a swift kick in the rear.
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  #54  
Old 08-15-2015, 9:17 AM
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Since it's a RICO case, can we go for civil asset forfeiture, too?

Take their guns, cars, and so on, as instrumentalities. It'd be an interesting way to highlight THAT abuse, too.
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  #55  
Old 08-21-2015, 7:57 PM
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Default those guns werent melted down...

All the rare and valuable ones were snapped up by LAPD brass, and family, and friends, and then the sergeants went thru the left-overs, and a few were given to buddies, leaving a few to be "destroyed" to destroy the evidence. With LAPD crookery and thefts of drugs and cash from evidence lockers, and coverups about corruption why would the average thinking person come to any OTHER conclusion, that this has to be a simple arrogant fvck you, coverup, in court.

Who is going after the cops- AG Kamala Harris? Mayor Gil Garcetti? Gov Jerry Brown? Steinberg, DeLeon, and company in Sackatomatoes?

The Left laughs and thumbs its nose at the little people, the bitter clingers, the law abiding...there is no money to be made there, only power to be wielded over them, to distract from the corruption underway.
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  #56  
Old 08-22-2015, 2:11 PM
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I hope the LAPD gets nailed to the wall
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  #57  
Old 08-22-2015, 4:10 PM
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I hope the LAPD gets nailed to the wall
I hope they get nailed THROUGH the wall.
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  #58  
Old 08-23-2015, 12:28 PM
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This whole case is yet another example of why folks don't respect, trust, like, support, approve of, help, or in any way have positive things to say about those tasked with enforcing laws. It is another obvious reason that many folks also prefer "undocumented" firearms, and that any form of government record keeping, registration, permission, licensing, etc. is to be avoided. In California, when a citizen purchases or otherwise transfers weapons in a legal manner, that citizen must beware of the fact that those weapons, as a result of being documented, are in effect property of the state, and as such may be taken back at any point in the future.
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  #59  
Old 08-23-2015, 4:20 PM
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one has to wonder how many other people had this done to them. truly sad and they wonder why LE has lost the respect of the people because of crap like this.
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  #60  
Old 08-23-2015, 5:45 PM
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Tom Grishem of "Gun Talk" fame mentioned this case last week on his radio program....
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  #61  
Old 08-23-2015, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rlc2 View Post
All the rare and valuable ones were snapped up by LAPD brass, and family, and friends, and then the sergeants went thru the left-overs, and a few were given to buddies, leaving a few to be "destroyed" to destroy the evidence. With LAPD crookery and thefts of drugs and cash from evidence lockers, and coverups about corruption why would the average thinking person come to any OTHER conclusion, that this has to be a simple arrogant fvck you, coverup, in court.

Who is going after the cops- AG Kamala Harris? Mayor Gil Garcetti? Gov Jerry Brown? Steinberg, DeLeon, and company in Sackatomatoes?

The Left laughs and thumbs its nose at the little people, the bitter clingers, the law abiding...there is no money to be made there, only power to be wielded over them, to distract from the corruption underway.
Sadly, given the facts I've read (though I have not heard LA's "explanation") I must agree. It looks like a top to bottom whitewash.
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  #62  
Old 08-24-2015, 12:47 AM
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Assuming this lady has all or some of the serial numbers of these missing guns.

I would LOVE to see if the DOJ can trace the serials to see if any of these guns have been sold through a FFL since they were confiscated.

My sniff is that if any of those confiscated guns have hit the street and been legally sold.
LAPD might just have to justify their actions.

Tis a thought anyway................

-T
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  #63  
Old 08-24-2015, 4:17 PM
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I would LOVE to see if the DOJ can trace the serials to see if any of these guns have been sold through a FFL since they were confiscated.

My sniff is that if any of those confiscated guns have hit the street and been legally sold.
LAPD might just have to justify their actions.

Tis a thought anyway................

-T
Even more trouble if they end up at a crime scene...
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  #64  
Old 09-22-2015, 4:52 PM
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Any progress on this???
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  #65  
Old 09-22-2015, 5:12 PM
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These things sometimes take five seven ten years. If there is no update in the last page of discussion then no, there isn't
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  #66  
Old 09-22-2015, 5:26 PM
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These things sometimes take five seven ten years. If there is no update in the last page of discussion then no, there isn't
Sometimes it really does seem to take 5,710 years
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  #67  
Old 09-29-2015, 1:20 PM
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Sometimes it really does seem to take 5,710 years
Yes Sir, it does.

Charles Beck is 63 yrs old. By the time this is resolved. The entire case against him will be moot. He will be long dead of old age.

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  #68  
Old 09-29-2015, 1:29 PM
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I wish that anyone who was involved in the illegal and criminal destruction of personal property could be held personally liable both civilly and criminally, But, alas, these moron politicians like Beck simply get a free ride while hiding behind their office.
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  #69  
Old 09-29-2015, 3:19 PM
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I wish that anyone who was involved in the illegal and criminal destruction of personal property could be held personally liable both civilly and criminally, But, alas, these moron politicians like Beck simply get a free ride while hiding behind their office.
And it works quite well for them. Paul Tanaka, threw some damn fine deputies under the bus, for following his orders, to cover his behind. They are now in prison.

But now that he is under Fed. Indictment. His attorneys are claiming "Qualified Immunity" as a defense. They are petitioning the court for Blanket Immunity for Ex Sheriff Lee Baca. So Baca can testify for Tanaka without incriminating himself.

Which would let them BOTH off the hook for their actions.
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Old 09-29-2015, 5:33 PM
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And it works quite well for them. Paul Tanaka, threw some damn fine deputies under the bus, for following his orders, to cover his behind. They are now in prison.

But now that he is under Fed. Indictment. His attorneys are claiming "Qualified Immunity" as a defense. They are petitioning the court for Blanket Immunity for Ex Sheriff Lee Baca. So Baca can testify for Tanaka without incriminating himself.

Which would let them BOTH off the hook for their actions.
well ain't that some horsesh**

i thought if it could be proven that you intentionally acted outside of the law, then your qualified immunity didn't apply

as far as the officers who acted illegally under his orders, quite honestly, i don't have much sympathy for them either, they are grown adults, and, if they knew something was illegal, they shouldn't have done it, regardless of who was ordering it

that's part of the problem with LE, too many "good" officers all too willing to sit on their integrity, more concerned about THEIR career and THEIR pension versus doing what is right
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  #71  
Old 09-30-2015, 9:27 PM
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all it takes is a prosecutor with some balls and integrity.

Unfortunately this is CA and the Federal AG is Loretta Lynch.

Nuf said.
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  #72  
Old 10-01-2015, 12:32 AM
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There are enough people who think civilians shouldn't have guns that I'm not sure I'd want a jury trial, going before a judge might be better (or might not, depending on the judge).
Police are civilians. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
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Old 10-01-2015, 7:00 AM
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Do we know for a fact that the collection was destroyed and not simply stolen with fake destruction paperwork to cover it up? A search of the homes of this department's officers might prove interesting, not that you'd ever get any judge to sign off on such an order.
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  #74  
Old 10-01-2015, 11:33 AM
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I went to turn a shotgun in that was a real POS and dangerous to fire. The LEO who came out to the car to retrieve it asked if he could have it and I gave it to him, but that's not the same as helping oneself to a firearm that has been turned in for destruction.

Yes I know that at the right time he could turn it in for $$$ at a buy back. More power to him if that is what he has in mind, I just wanted it gone.
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  #75  
Old 10-01-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
Police are civilians. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
JDay,

I believe that you're mistaken here.

It's probably so hard for folks to understand because it's not true.

Please refer to the Merriman-Webster dictionary definition of "Civilian":

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  #76  
Old 10-04-2015, 1:51 PM
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Rick, I personally resist any concept that draws a line of any kind between. Citizens and the Citizens Police.

Even a single word.

Things change but most assuredly not always for the better. One of the things that change, that shouldn't is the meaning of words. Just because words get improperly used in common practice by those with an agenda over an extended period of time. Does not mean that incorrect common usage should become acceptable usage. Yet that very thing is what those with agendas promote.

This slow and insiduous shift from the proper perception of civilian police to more and more, the police becoming percieved as an arm of the government in general should not only stop, but be resisted in all forms.

The addition of a few incorrect words added to a dictionary definition. Which subverts the original meaning of a word. Should not be allowed to support agendas.

The addition of those incorrect words in relation to the definition of "civilian", serve only to support the agenda of those who promote. "US v THEM". And draws just such a line between civilians and civilian police.

In the words of what is universally considered the "Father of Modern Police"


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The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

Robert Peel
Before the planned subversion of the English language. Through long term misuse of words to make them more readily acceptable in their incorrect usage. And even getting publishers of dictionaries to play into the ploy. Lets roll back the clock to the 1960s or even the 70s.

If someone in the cattle industry or a member of LE was called "GAY". They were percieved to be a "Happy or Joyous" cowboy or cop. Now that same word used in conjunction with those honorable professions. Brings forth cringe worthy mental pictures of The Village People.

The true and original definition of the word "civilian", has been not only changed, but subverted to mean other than what it was. Just like the word "gay".

Unless an individual's actions are covered in the UCMJ rather than the various state and fed. civilian codes. They are a "civilian".

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  #77  
Old 10-04-2015, 2:08 PM
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One thing the lawsuit should ask for is a warrant to seach every officers house involved in this for the distroyed firearms . Figure that out and heads will roll .
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  #78  
Old 10-04-2015, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Rick, I personally resist any concept that draws a line of any kind between. Citizens and the Citizens Police.

Even a single word.

Things change but most assuredly not always for the better. One of the things that change, that shouldn't is the meaning of words. Just because words get improperly used in common practice by those with an agenda over an extended period of time. Does not mean that incorrect common usage should become acceptable usage. Yet that very thing is what those with agendas promote.

This slow and insiduous shift from the proper perception of civilian police to more and more, the police becoming percieved as an arm of the government in general should not only stop, but be resisted in all forms.

The addition of a few incorrect words added to a dictionary definition. Which subverts the original meaning of a word. Should not be allowed to support agendas.

The addition of those incorrect words in relation to the definition of "civilian", serve only to support the agenda of those who promote. "US v THEM". And draws just such a line between civilians and civilian police.

In the words of what is universally considered the "Father of Modern Police"




Before the planned subversion of the English language. Through long term misuse of words to make them more readily acceptable in their incorrect usage. And even getting publishers of dictionaries to play into the ploy. Lets roll back the clock to the 1960s or even the 70s.

If someone in the cattle industry or a member of LE was called "GAY". They were percieved to be a "Happy or Joyous" cowboy or cop. Now that same word used in conjunction with those honorable professions. Brings forth cringe worthy mental pictures of The Village People.

The true and original definition of the word "civilian", has been not only changed, but subverted to mean other than what it was. Just like the word "gay".

Unless an individual's actions are covered in the UCMJ rather than the various state and fed. civilian codes. They are a "civilian".

JM2c
THIS.
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  #79  
Old 10-05-2015, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Rick, I personally resist any concept that draws a line of any kind between. Citizens and the Citizens Police.

Even a single word.

Things change but most assuredly not always for the better. One of the things that change, that shouldn't is the meaning of words. Just because words get improperly used in common practice by those with an agenda over an extended period of time. Does not mean that incorrect common usage should become acceptable usage. Yet that very thing is what those with agendas promote.

This slow and insiduous shift from the proper perception of civilian police to more and more, the police becoming percieved as an arm of the government in general should not only stop, but be resisted in all forms.

The addition of a few incorrect words added to a dictionary definition. Which subverts the original meaning of a word. Should not be allowed to support agendas.

The addition of those incorrect words in relation to the definition of "civilian", serve only to support the agenda of those who promote. "US v THEM". And draws just such a line between civilians and civilian police.

In the words of what is universally considered the "Father of Modern Police"




Before the planned subversion of the English language. Through long term misuse of words to make them more readily acceptable in their incorrect usage. And even getting publishers of dictionaries to play into the ploy. Lets roll back the clock to the 1960s or even the 70s.

If someone in the cattle industry or a member of LE was called "GAY". They were percieved to be a "Happy or Joyous" cowboy or cop. Now that same word used in conjunction with those honorable professions. Brings forth cringe worthy mental pictures of The Village People.

The true and original definition of the word "civilian", has been not only changed, but subverted to mean other than what it was. Just like the word "gay".

Unless an individual's actions are covered in the UCMJ rather than the various state and fed. civilian codes. They are a "civilian".

JM2c
Pacrat,

There are two very different issues here to respond to.

The vast majority of your commentary above deals with the role of the police and the quality of their interaction with the public. I actually agree with your comments and observations. There has been far too much "militarization" of law enforcement. I'd recommend that you read the recently released interim report from the President's Task Force on 21st Century Policing. That group was formed following the events in Ferguson and has just made their first recommendations. A central theme is a shift from the "Urban Warrior" view of policing to the "Guardian" mode of policing. That's long overdue. I was trained in the "Urban Warrior" mode of policing and quickly found that it didn't really fit very well (rather than repeat a long post here, please refer to Post #6 in this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=guardian ).

The main problem with the "war on (fill in the blank)" approach to law enforcement is that wars tend to impose a lot of collateral damage (yesterday we bombed a hospital in Afghanistan). Wars also tend to have a winner and a loser, or two losers. Wars just don't have two winners. The "Guardian" approach to police problem-solving can produce two winners if everyone lives up to their social contract.

I very much like your quoting of Sir Robert Peel. His ideas remain very relevant today. I'd also point out the Mr. Peel often spoke and wrote of the need for the public to be involved in law enforcement. The role of the constable was to facilitate better law enforcement, not to assume all responsibility for law enforcement.

If your purpose is to seek such change, please continue the effort and count me among your supporters.

But that wasn't my purpose in making the post that you responded to.

Earlier in this thread JDay took "Junkie" to task for using the word "civilian" correctly according to it's meaning, but in a way that you personally disapproved of (as you've explained above). That's just plain wrong. He has the right to use the word according to its meaning. I've read his posting several times, he spoke respectfully and provided his opinion. You criticism was undeserved. He is entitled to his opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.

If your purpose is to condemn law enforcement militarization, then please simply preach that message and I think that you'll find a lot of supporters, just don't try to rewrite the English language in the process.

Last edited by RickD427; 10-06-2015 at 9:02 AM..
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  #80  
Old 10-05-2015, 5:42 PM
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Police are civilians. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Negative Ghostrider. Per Websters: Civilian: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force

I do not consider myself a civilian as I am retired military. The dictionary states that you have to be active military, but after 24 years of military service, and service as a former LEO, I feel I'm entitled to say I'll never be a civilian.
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