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  #41  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:39 AM
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It should be legal to cut it as marked. ATF has been approving Form 1's in CA to do exactly that. Nobody's tried to transfer a Form 1'ed C&R SBS/SBR on a Form 4 yet, but I don't know why it wouldn't be transferrable later on. I'm not even thinking about that, could you imagine trying to do a PPT on it that the dealer would have to hold for 2-3months? Easiest is to just plan on it being permanently yours.

I think you may be thinking about "transferrable" as it applies to MG's and if they were made pre/post 86, and that is a different situation there.

If its worth $900, thats a question you have to decide for yourself. If the NFA were to be overturned (doesn't look like that will happen per Heller) then who knows. The devaluing of tube guns is more likely to a overturning of 922(o), the "new MG" ban, which does have a chance of being overturned. That would not affect your SBS.


Remember, that $600 trust can be cost-averaged over multiple NFA items, reducing the "cost" of each gun. And watch out, "tax stamp disease" is just as bad as black rifle disease, so your first tax stamp may not be your last.

Oh, and the tax stamp is $200 to make or transfer an NFA item, except for an AOW Form 4 transfer, which is $5.
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2008, 12:07 PM
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Thanks for the information, Jack!

Yes, I was thinking of the MG kind of "transferrable", and I wasn't sure if that also applied to other kinds of NFA weapons. Since it appears that it's possible to catch the NFA sickness in CA for a bit south of a grand, I guess I should read up on the details now!

That POS shotgun would still be a POS if I threw $800 and a hacksaw at it, but at least it would take up less room in the safe.

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Last edited by 383green; 07-14-2008 at 12:09 PM.. Reason: I'm getting senile.
  #43  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:34 AM
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Default CA State Bar Pamphlet on Trusts

A lot of basic info, but some of the things discussed such as tax return etc. are addressd and this is an official CA State document.

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs...st-English.pdf
  #44  
Old 07-15-2008, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 383green View Post
Hmm, so does this mean that with:
1) $600 NFA trust
2) $250 NFA tax stamp
3) $50 80 year old rusty POS shotgun with a ringed barrel
it would then be legal to cut on the dotted lines?

Why stop at the dotted line in front? Get that puppy right down to the end of the wood.

BTW, do you have any more rusty $50 shotguns lying around?
  #45  
Old 07-15-2008, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AYEAREFIFTEEN View Post
Why stop at the dotted line in front? Get that puppy right down to the end of the wood.
Hmm, now that you mention it, I could probably cut off some of the wood, too! It ain't done until there's a 1/4" of shell hanging out beyond each muzzle!

Quote:
BTW, do you have any more rusty $50 shotguns lying around?
Nope, just the one. I think I overpaid, though.
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  #46  
Old 07-17-2008, 2:54 PM
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Many of you have contacted me with questions about NFA trusts. . .

To answer your questions, I will be be setting up a FREE conference call next week in which interested Calgunners can call in and speak with me, and the attorney I am working with.

Together we will answer your questions about NFA trusts, and NFA law in general.

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THIS CONFERENCE CALL IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY, AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE.

The call will be @ 7pm PST this coming Wednesday (7/23/08).

Please EMAIL me if you are interested, and I will give you the conference call "bridge" number and passcode. Please include your real name and your Calguns handle, so I know who you are.

My email address is kevin (at) thomasonlawoffice (dot) com.

Please don't PM me about this, since my PM box is almost full!!!



The conference call bridge can handle up to about 15 callers - so the first 15 people to contact me will be in on this call. I will also be doing subsequent calls, if the interest is high enough on this one.

Kevin
  #47  
Old 08-12-2008, 3:05 PM
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I should really start giving people the RLT that only needs to be filled out and signed. It works too

I'll finally be able to buy that PVS-14 and DBAL-A2 I've always wanted after only 10 trust
  #48  
Old 08-21-2008, 4:08 PM
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hmm, so does this mean I still can't own a select fire m4?
  #49  
Old 08-21-2008, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1 View Post
hmm, so does this mean I still can't own a select fire m4?
Technically, you CAN.

But you won't get the permit from the DOJ that will allow you to posess one. And of course it has to be pre-may 1986.
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  #50  
Old 09-06-2008, 5:22 PM
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Pre-86 MP-5, 18,000.00, Post 86 dealer sample 1,100.00.

Three post 86 were just purchased in OC.
  #51  
Old 09-06-2008, 6:27 PM
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And?

NFA trusts are not a way to get MGs in CA, and expecially not dealer samples.

Who just purchased some DS's in OC?
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2008, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
And?

NFA trusts are not a way to get MGs in CA, and expecially not dealer samples.

Who just purchased some DS's in OC?
is there any way to actually get a mg if you're not a leo? lol

so if you want a sbr or aow it has to be c&r?

Last edited by Sam1; 09-07-2008 at 8:25 AM..
  #53  
Old 09-07-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1 View Post
is there any way to actually get a mg if you're not a leo? lol
For normal people, no. You gotta become a NFA dealer or have a movie studio. Might be a couple other unobtainium options out there.

Quote:
so if you want a sbr or aow it has to be c&r?
Yes, an SBS or SBR would have to be C&R, but an AOW only has to be a non-AW and not a pen gun. Read the AOW/SBS/SBR thread for more info.
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  #54  
Old 09-07-2008, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
Who just purchased some DS's in OC?
He has own and posses CA-DOJ Permits: MG, SB, DD and AW and the Fed NFA. Most NFA's in this state are dealers, they can't own. He can, one of three in the state. Good friend to have.

He's high profile, takes about 30 seconds to search him out. You'll never see him posting here though. He does post a lot on a local ccw site.
  #55  
Old 09-11-2008, 1:04 PM
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I have a friend in OC that has all the state permits for MG, SBR, Suppressor, DD etc...
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  #56  
Old 09-11-2008, 2:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I have a friend in OC that has all the state permits for MG, SBR, Suppressor, DD etc...
Jealous of your friend, I am.
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  #57  
Old 09-25-2008, 10:30 AM
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What if we bought into or built a "war" or "weapons" museum. We could all get Curator statis. We would of corse need to live fire the weapons to gain a better understanding of then. At least I think museums can own NFA items?
  #58  
Old 09-25-2008, 10:38 AM
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so has anyone tried this yet and if so

  #59  
Old 01-23-2009, 7:08 PM
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i'll try it- is one NFA Trust applicable to more than one weapon?
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2009, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
i'll try it- is one NFA Trust applicable to more than one weapon?
You can use the trust to hold as many NFA arms as are legal in your place of possession.

-Gene
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  #61  
Old 01-26-2009, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertGunner View Post
Enlighten me: what NFA items would be CA-legal?
Federally, anything over .50 cal is a "Destructive Device".
In California, anything over .60 cal is a "Destructive Device".

This has me drooling over the idea of picking something up that's under .60 cal, but over .50 cal!
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  #62  
Old 02-26-2009, 8:00 AM
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PM Sent.
  #63  
Old 03-03-2009, 6:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronHorrocks View Post
Federally, anything over .50 cal is a "Destructive Device".
In California, anything over .60 cal is a "Destructive Device".

This has me drooling over the idea of picking something up that's under .60 cal, but over .50 cal!
So, with the stamp I can legally own and possess a .50 BMG rifle?
  #64  
Old 03-03-2009, 7:32 PM
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nope. A .50BMG is not an NFA destructive device, so you can't get a stamp for it. And even then, there is no exemption the CA .50BMG rifle ban for those with tax stamps. Now, there is an exemption for C&R rifles. So, a Boys Rifle rebarreled with a .50BMG barrel should still be C&R and would be exempt.

What Aaron was talking about was stuff between .51" and .60" that is legal in CA. You'd need a DD tax stamp to satisfy federal law, but be unregulated in CA. And, there are some items that are between .51" and .60" that have federal DD-exemptions due to "sporting purposes". Such as the 14.5mm JDJ, a necked up .50BMG with a 14.5mm bullet, around .58".
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  #65  
Old 03-14-2009, 5:13 AM
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Can NFA trusts be used to transfer registered California AW's to your children? My friend is wondering where his Bushmaster will go when he dies.
  #66  
Old 03-28-2009, 11:00 AM
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Can a trust be done for multiple people? Say my friend, his wife, me and my wife?
  #67  
Old 04-01-2009, 8:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorT View Post
Can a trust be done for multiple people? Say my friend, his wife, me and my wife?
+1, I am curious about this too.
  #68  
Old 04-01-2009, 10:14 PM
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yes, can I name my wife and 1 year old boy as trustees / beneficiarys so they can shoot and not worry? will you help with completing appropriate forms after trust is created ? can it be amended if i have another child ? can i add a brother /father/ friend ? what happens if i die. i dont want anybody getting in trouble for posession, but i dont my stuff detroyed

regarding SBS..so i can hack my beater A5 thats older than 50 years down to just past the end of the mag tube and cut the stock way down for that Clyde Barrow commemorative look or a old beater double barrell as described above, but i cn not put a pistol grip and a 14 inch barrell on my 870 or 11-87 ?
  #69  
Old 04-24-2009, 10:11 PM
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i'll be calling u

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
I have been approached by quite a few people interested in NFA Trusts. I am currently researching the issue and expect to be able to draw these up very soon.

Just wanted to put this out there so that people didn't think I had forgotten about them.



EDIT: the fee for these will be $600.
  #70  
Old 04-25-2009, 4:26 PM
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whats the point of having a trust if you can't own a suppressor.
  #71  
Old 04-26-2009, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HkUSP45 View Post
whats the point of having a trust if you can't own a suppressor.
Short barrel shotguns, short barrel rifles, AOWs
  #72  
Old 04-26-2009, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AYEAREFIFTEEN View Post
Short barrel shotguns, short barrel rifles, AOWs
With this trust, would you be able to get a suppressor out of state (AZ). If you have a home there? Or is this trust for CA only
  #73  
Old 04-27-2009, 12:21 PM
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I bought an AAC Aviator suppressor two years ago. I live in California, and used my California address on the Form 4. I obviously keep it out of state, and attached a letter to my Form 4 that specifiied the storage address. This letter became an attachment to my Form 4 when it came back (approved). If the out-of-state storage location happens to be NFA-friendly, meaning that the CLEO of the county will sign off on the reverse side of the Form 4, there is no need to set up a trust. In my case, I was able to get the CLEO sign off quite easily. Of course, I needed to have the FBI fingerprint cards code, and submit photos, but that is simply part of the process.

If you plan to purchase multiple NFA items, or if the CLEO of the county where it will be stored is not NFA-friendly, setting up a trust probably has some value. For the limited number of NFA items that can be kept in-state, and given that for many of us the chance of the CLEO signing off on the Form 4 is somewhere between zero and none, the trust may be your only venue.

Anyway, just my $0.02 from my own experience...
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  #74  
Old 04-28-2009, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunde View Post
I bought an AAC Aviator suppressor two years ago. I live in California, and used my California address on the Form 4. I obviously keep it out of state, and attached a letter to my Form 4 that specifiied the storage address. This letter became an attachment to my Form 4 when it came back (approved). If the out-of-state storage location happens to be NFA-friendly, meaning that the CLEO of the county will sign off on the reverse side of the Form 4, there is no need to set up a trust. In my case, I was able to get the CLEO sign off quite easily. Of course, I needed to have the FBI fingerprint cards code, and submit photos, but that is simply part of the process.

If you plan to purchase multiple NFA items, or if the CLEO of the county where it will be stored is not NFA-friendly, setting up a trust probably has some value. For the limited number of NFA items that can be kept in-state, and given that for many of us the chance of the CLEO signing off on the Form 4 is somewhere between zero and none, the trust may be your only venue.

Dr Ken,

This is interesting. Do you have 'residency' in the other state, or did you just file Form 4 as "Hi, I'm a Californian but won't bring this back into CA."?
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  #75  
Old 04-28-2009, 1:20 PM
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I did the latter. I spoke with the NFA branch of the ATF who advised that I should use my California address on the Form 4, but that the CLEO signoff should be from the county of the other state where it is intended to be stored. Because there is no place on a Form 4 to specify that the storage location is somewhere other than my physical address, I included the following in a letter that became an attachment to my Form 4:

Quote:
Attachment to ATF Form 4 (5320.4) for <full name here>
Weapon Serial Number: weapon serial number here>

The firearm being transferred by this Form 4 shall be stored at the physical address below, in accordance with ATF regulations:

<physical address and phone number here>
The process was remarkably simple. I sent the Form 4 to the ATF on 05/16/2007, and it was approved on 06/11/2007.
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  #76  
Old 04-28-2009, 1:30 PM
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Oh, and to clarify, I have residency only in California. When purchasing NFA items, the residency requirement that we know (and hate) for handguns simply does not apply. But, you need to have an out-of-state storage location if your state of residency does allow NFA items to be possessed. For some people, this is no small task.
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  #77  
Old 04-28-2009, 9:07 PM
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Wow...this *is* an interesting wrinkle. Suddenly the transition manager job I might have a shot at in South Dakota looks really interesting...

--Neill
  #78  
Old 09-03-2009, 1:18 PM
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to bring this back alive would the trust allow SBR's such as ak's and ar's? or is it just shotguns?
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  #79  
Old 09-03-2009, 1:57 PM
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No, a trust does not allow for modern SBS/SBRs. A trust only exempts you from needing CLEO sign-off. It does not exempt you from any needed CADOJ permits. Basically only CA-legal NFA items such AOWs, C&R SBx, and DDs between .51" and .60" are available with a trust. Those same items are available to people without a trust, if their CLEO was willing to sign off on it.
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  #80  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:56 AM
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Folks, I am getting swamped with 2A work, and thus need to refocus my time on the 2A work. I have contacted another "trusted" (pun intended) lawyer who is located in California, and can do these trusts. It appears that he will do them at the same price.

IF you are interested in an NFA trust, please contact:

David Duringer
1-888-929-9455
info@lawnews.tv
GunTrust.org
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