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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2008, 5:43 PM
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Default Is this a legal way to transport in a vehicle?

Is this a legal way to carry an unloaded pistol with a magazine that is loaded in a vehicle? The pistol is in a locked container and the magazine is in a separate locked container.

I have been told by some it is legal and by others it is not legal. I know that if the pistol only is in the locked container it is legal, but does the loaded magazine make it illegal even though they are in two separate containers with the same lock and/or lid?


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Old 06-27-2008, 5:59 PM
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IMHO - it would be legal.
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Old 06-27-2008, 6:04 PM
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I suggested that he add the locked mag holder!!! Glad to see he did it!!! IMO its legal per the concealed exemptions in 12026.1a & 2a and not loaded per 12031g and People vs Clark.

Carry on!
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2008, 6:04 PM
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Should be legal, but expect to be hassled. Rather than re-typing a bunch, here's something I wrote on it a while back. Of course, if you keep things properly concealed, you won't ever have to explain legality.

My rifle's mag is loaded and concealed, and the rifle is unloaded and concealed. Unless I tell folks it's there, they never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalCalifornia
Some police officers regard any loaded magazine to be a loaded weapon. The reasoning which has been employed, is that because a magazine-fed gun will not function normally without a magazine installed, the magazine itself is a part of the gun. By this reasoning, a loaded magazine is a loaded weapon. This does not apply to stripper clips (see SKS) or en-bloc clips (see M1 Garand), however. This has been shown to be untrue in case law, however it remains a frequently held position amongst LEOs.
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Old 06-27-2008, 6:08 PM
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It is legal.

And you could store the loaded mag in the same container if you want and it's still legal. Many will argue otherwise, but they are wrong. See the Open Carry Flyer. It covers these issues as well.

I carry my loaded mag, with the handgun, in the same lockbox, on the seat right next to me.
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Old 06-27-2008, 8:43 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Matt and Titian Gun Vaults have not made the magazine accessory yet, it was purchased from a different vendor. Matt is still in production at this time.

I really like the vault as it can go from bedside to the range without any changes and locks to the bracket. Good design.
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Old 08-22-2008, 1:07 AM
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Suppose, for the sake of argument, you park the car in oarking lot to see a movie, go the mall, grocery shopping etc... And did not want to leave your safe, with your gun in the vehicle. Would it be legal to tote the case around concealed (bag pack) or not concealed with you? Or would the firearm have to remain in the vehicle?
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Old 08-22-2008, 1:09 AM
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In regards to the OP: It is completely legal to store in the car, as long as no loaded magazine is loaded into the magazine well, and/or there is no round in the chamber.
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Old 08-22-2008, 1:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
Suppose, for the sake of argument, you park the car in oarking lot to see a movie, go the mall, grocery shopping etc... And did not want to leave your safe, with your gun in the vehicle. Would it be legal to tote the case around concealed (bag pack) or not concealed with you? Or would the firearm have to remain in the vehicle?

--
Quote:
They are exemptions to 12025. You cannot be charged with 12026.x, only 12025.
When you transport your firearms concealed (openly is legal) you must use one of the 12026.x exemptions.
The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not
apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There
are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but
one of which (motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can
therefore be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1,
12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.
Reads to me like trucking it around in your backpack at the theatre would be an 'unnecessary deviation' and jam you up.
And parading around with it concealed, locked up or not, will very likely run you afoul of 12025.

Are you trying to find a loophole that will allow you to tote around a handgun where you otherwise are forbidden to? Locked up in a box where it is useless to you?

If that is not your intent and you are envisioning a scenario where you have a long busy day which includes multiple stops without time to properly secure your firearm when it is not in use, the law-compliant and least problematic answer is quite simply don't do that. MAKE the time to return home (somebody's home) and secure your handgun properly, then go back out.

But it's up to you what you do. And besides, the first offense if you are caught with a loaded handgun in most places in CA is only a Misdemeanor coupled with forfeiture of the firearm.

/I am not a lawyer, I'm just a guy that successfully defended himself against a false 12025 charge.
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Old 08-22-2008, 2:53 AM
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Nice ... I would make the combination 1 digit.
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  #11  
Old 08-22-2008, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayra View Post
--


But it's up to you what you do. And besides, the first offense if you are caught with a loaded handgun in most places in CA is only a Misdemeanor coupled with forfeiture of the firearm.
and loss of gun rights for ten years last time I checked. I could be wrong though.
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Old 08-28-2008, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayra View Post
--


Reads to me like trucking it around in your backpack at the theatre would be an 'unnecessary deviation' and jam you up.
And parading around with it concealed, locked up or not, will very likely run you afoul of 12025.

Are you trying to find a loophole that will allow you to tote around a handgun where you otherwise are forbidden to? Locked up in a box where it is useless to you?

If that is not your intent and you are envisioning a scenario where you have a long busy day which includes multiple stops without time to properly secure your firearm when it is not in use, the law-compliant and least problematic answer is quite simply don't do that. MAKE the time to return home (somebody's home) and secure your handgun properly, then go back out.

But it's up to you what you do. And besides, the first offense if you are caught with a loaded handgun in most places in CA is only a Misdemeanor coupled with forfeiture of the firearm.

/I am not a lawyer, I'm just a guy that successfully defended himself against a false 12025 charge.
Im sorry I never reploed, I never checked this thread since last week. Loophole? No sir. The reason the question was brought up was I figured, I dont even like leaving my portable GPS or ipod in open sight when I park my car somewhere. I usually remove them and lock them in the glove box. Now i will not be installing the safe in the glove box, only because the term lock box or glove box are even mentioned in the law. I was planning on installing it on the left side of the passenger's leg. Now thats pretty much open in plain sight. I was just wondering if I can carry it with me, to avoid a broken window. Also I wouldn't want to tote around an unloaded firearm, in a locked container, in my back pack, for self defense. By the time I even get to it I think it would look something along the lines of this
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Old 08-28-2008, 8:27 PM
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No part of my vehicle is lockable.Liberty SUV. My lever action is impossible to lock, luckily I live in Texas my auto pistols when being transported are unloaded and the magazines all seven of them loaded are are in my range bag, my semi auto rifle is carried unloaded and its magazines are in my range bag.Along with 500 rds of ammo.Also the constitution 's still in force here so there is no chance a leo would or could search my vehicle without a warrant.Actually carried everything in this pic and a little more to California to visit an ill aunt before going onto Vegas.I guess I'm lucky I'm not doing 20 years.
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Old 08-28-2008, 9:43 PM
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Is that a G-43 or an SKS with detachable mag?

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Originally Posted by Lashlarue View Post
No part of my vehicle is lockable.Liberty SUV. My lever action is impossible to lock, luckily I live in Texas my auto pistols when being transported are unloaded and the magazines all seven of them loaded are are in my range bag, my semi auto rifle is carried unloaded and its magazines are in my range bag.Along with 500 rds of ammo.Also the constitution 's still in force here so there is no chance a leo would or could search my vehicle without a warrant.Actually carried everything in this pic and a little more to California to visit an ill aunt before going onto Vegas.I guess I'm lucky I'm not doing 20 years.
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Last edited by Meplat; 08-28-2008 at 9:45 PM..
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:02 PM
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That's insane that you brought all that to California! You know the motels here already come equipped with beds and dressers right?
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It's been more than 50 years since the US Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional to require a test and a tax for people to exercise their right to vote. Why is my right to carry a gun any different? I don't want a permission slip from a bureaucrat; I don't want to pay a tax or take a test. "Shall issue" is NOT good enough.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Is this a legal way to carry an unloaded pistol with a magazine that is loaded in a vehicle? The pistol is in a locked container and the magazine is in a separate locked container.

I have been told by some it is legal and by others it is not legal. I know that if the pistol only is in the locked container it is legal, but does the loaded magazine make it illegal even though they are in two separate containers with the same lock and/or lid?


were did you purchase the magazine holder?
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2008, 5:48 PM
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i got it from Ageis Safes, but Titan Vaults now sells them. Contact Titan Vaults and ask Matt the Owner for one. If they are not out now, they will be shortly.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:11 PM
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Not again... my goodness people... USE THE SEARCH.


Listen: Loaded carry and concealed carry are two different sections and have nothing to do with each other.

Here is the law paraphrased:

A) It is illegal to carry loaded in a vehicle.
A loaded weapon is when unexpended ammunition is in a magazine and that magazine is inserted into the weapon OR when an unexpended round is in the chamber. EVERY OTHER SCENARIO IS UNLOADED AND LEGAL.

B) It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon
A weapon is concealed when it is either fully, or partially concealed.

There is an exception to the concealed carry law that states IF you have your gun in a locked case, it can be carried concealed. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT, only an exemption to concealed carry.

So, you can carry your Glock on the seat next to you with a fully-loaded magazine duct taped to the gun and it is perfectly legal.

In addition... if you are licensed and are on your way to hunt or fish, you can carry concealed without a CCW thanks to PC12027(g).
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12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Old 09-04-2008, 10:18 PM
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One more thing:

Any private citizen may arrest another person for any misdemeanor or felony crime committed in his presence.

Any private citizen may possess a loaded weapon while performing a lawful arrest.

This means if you are carrying your Glock in a holster and whitness a crime, you may load that weapon shortly before effecting an arrest of the offending party. This includes crimes against the arrestee.

In short, if someone threatens you in person, attacks someone else, or breaks any other minor law in your presence you can load your weapon and re-holster it as you are effecting an arrest on the perpetrator.

This is the same as a police officer. For misdemeanor offenses, a police officer must witness the action in order to arrest. (with few exception).


Know your rights and refuse to be a victim!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
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Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post

B) It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon
A weapon is concealed when it is either fully, or partially concealed.

There is an exception to the concealed carry law that states IF you have your gun in a locked case, it can be carried concealed. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT, only an exemption to concealed carry.
Also long guns are non-concealable guns from the laws point of view so you could conceal a unloaded long gun without the locking requirement(except the k-12 school zone still require a locked container)
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The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
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  #21  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombinghamthegreat View Post
Also long guns are non-concealable guns from the laws point of view so you could conceal a unloaded long gun without the locking requirement(except the k-12 school zone still require a locked container)
Well, I limited the scope to the lock box above... long guns wont fit in it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
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Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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