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  #1  
Old 06-02-2008, 2:42 PM
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Default June NCPPRC Long Range Match Results

We had our monthly match yesterday with 38 shooters showing up to battle it out.

After the match we did a lil BBQ for all so that new guys can get to know the more seasoned shooters to get tips and ideas. + It's just a good excuse to burn some meat.

Steel match will be on June 14th. Spots are filling fast.

This month's COF was from 500yards on out. CBS was a head shot on a B-27in 30 seconds with first round hit being worth 100% of the points and a 2nd round hit being 50%.

Dennis Lorenzo was the match winner with his .284win.

1 Lorenzo, Dennis 419 3X (284win)
2 Feighner, Keith 379 4X (30-06) freaking bone stock hunting rifle.
3 Lake, Peter 376 3X (300WM)
4 Ducos, Joe 372 4X (300WM)
5 Bowen, Jerry 352 1X (308win)
6 Skitarellic, David 345 3X (308win)
7 Dunnett, Robert 339 0X (300wm)
8 Wahlmerer, Greg 336 1X (6.5x47)
9 Davis, Dave 328 4X (284win)
10 Canupp, Tim 326 0X (308win)
11 Buckley, Sam 323 3X (308win)
12 Lake, Dave 323 1X (6.5x284)
13 Pham, Vu 317 0X (260Rem)
14 Kirkpatrick, John 308 1X (300Wm)
15 Jones, Duel 303 1X (7mm Mag)
16 Dunlap, John 295 2X (308win)
17 Sakai, Fred 290 2X (243win)
18 Young, Nick 276 4X (308win)
19 Wong, Sandy 272 2X (308win)
20 Shaw, Shawn 270 0X (308win)
21 Van Gerpen, Matt 269 0X (260rem)
22 Thomas, Robert 268 1X (6.5x55)
23 Orlando, Ron 257 1X (308win)
24 Denny, Jacob 256 1X (308win)
25 Childs, Gary 252 2X (6.5x47)
26 Kerley, David 248 1X (308win)
27 Cruz, Vincent 246 0X (260Rem)
28 Carlisle, Jim 236 3X (308win)
29 Alvi, Jake 218 1X (308win)
30 Martin, Tim 210 0X (308win)
31 Richardson, Dan 209 0X (308win)
32 Tu, Vincent 206 0X (308win)
33 Flowers, Perry 183 0X (308win)
34 Jacobson, Scott 182 0X (308win)
35 Sandretto, Don 181 0X (308win)
36 Lu, Jason 180 1X (308win)
37 Coussirat, Al 142 0X (308win)
38 Rodriguez, Brian 139 0X (308win) ???
39 Nehoda, Patrick 128 1X (308win)


I will post results as soon as our stat sheet is updated.

Stage 1 – Cold Bore Shot @ 500 Yards
Round: Count: 2 Maximum
Range: 500 yards
Point Value: 40pts for a 1st round hit and 20 points for a 2nd round hit
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 1 minute firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire their Cold Bore Shot. Once targets appear shooters will have 60 seconds to fire 2 rounds maximum at the CBS target. If a competitor hits on the 1st round he or she will not have to fire a 2nd round. After the first shot targets will be pulled and marked. If you see a white spotter come up that indicates a hit. If a black spotter comes up or no spotter that indicates a miss and you may shoot a 2nd round. Only the head of the target will be used for the COF.

Stage 2 – 500 yards
Round Count: 6
Range: 500 yards
Point Value: 60pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 1 minute firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire the course of fire. Once targets appear shooters will have 1 minute to fire 3 rounds to the X ring of their B-27 target. Targets will be marked with spotters so that shooters can see their hits and make adjustments if needed.

Targets will then be cleaned and scored by the pit crew and made to show half mast. During this time shooters will prep to fire 3 more rounds as soon as the targets appear. We will repeat this stage once for a total of 6 rounds fired.

Stage 3 – 500 yard Head Shots
Round: Count: 3
Range: 500 yards
Point Value: 30pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 1 minute firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will engage the head portion of their B-27 target only. A hit is one that strikes the head regions of the B-27 target. A miss is one that does not strike the head region of the B-27 target. Hits are ten (10) points and misses are zero (0) points.

Stage 4 – 600 yards
Round Count: 6
Range: 600yards
Point Value: 60pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 1 minute firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire the course of fire. Once targets appear shooters will have 1 minute to fire 3 rounds to the X ring of their B-27 target. Targets will be marked with spotters so that shooters can see their hits and make adjustments if needed.

Targets will then be cleaned and scored by the pit crew and made to show half mast. During this time shooters will prep to fire 3 more rounds as soon as the targets appear. We will repeat this stage once for a total of 6 rounds fired.

Stage 5 – 600 yard Head Shots
Round Count: 3
Range: 500yards
Point Value: 30pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 1 minute firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will engage the head portion of their B-27 target only. A hit is one that strikes the head regions of the B-27 target. A miss is one that does not strike the head region of the B-27 target. Hits are ten (10) points and misses are zero (0) points.

Stage 6 – 800 yards
Round Count: 9
Range: 800yards
Point Value: 90pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 90 seconds firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire the course of fire. Once targets appear shooters will have 90 seconds to fire 3 rounds to the X ring of their B-27 target. After the first shot the target will be pulled and marked. Targets will come up with a spotter so the competitor can make any needed corrections for the following 2 shots. We will repeat this stage twice for a total of 3 - 3 round strings.

Stage 7 – 900 yards
Round Count: 9
Range: 900yards
Point Value: 90pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 90 seconds firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire the course of fire. Once targets appear shooters will have 90 seconds to fire 3 rounds to the X ring of their B-27 target. After the first shot the target will be pulled and marked. Targets will come up with a spotter so the competitor can make any needed corrections for the following 2 shots. We will repeat this stage twice for a total of 3 - 3 round strings.

Stage 8 – 1000 yards
Round Count: 12
Range: 1000 yards
Point Value: 120pts possible
Time Limit: 1 minute prep, 90 seconds firing time.

COF Description:
Shooters will have 1 minute to ready their rifles to fire the course of fire. Once targets appear shooters will have 90 seconds to fire 3 rounds to the X ring of their B-27 target. After the first shot the target will be pulled and marked. Targets will come up with a spotter so the competitor can make any needed corrections for the following 2 shots. We will repeat this stage three for a total of 4 - 3 round strings.

Total rounds fired: 50
Total possible score: 520
Ties are broken by X count.

Last edited by Vu 308; 06-03-2008 at 7:28 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-02-2008, 2:50 PM
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Spotters marked and adjustments for additional shots - you guys are so spoiled - down here I'm afraid we don't have pits, marked spotters, etc - on steel you mark your miss in the dirt and try again - on paper you're either on or off
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:01 PM
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Dang.. I'd love to come up and play. Do you guys offer some sort of fuel subsidy or rebate program though?

Ryan? Adam? Pete? Anyone want to head up June 14?
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  #4  
Old 06-02-2008, 3:05 PM
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LOL...please....

Notice we mark spotters at 800 on out. + In "field" conditions or working in teams you have a spotter to call corrections on impacts.

Spotting the first round simulates that condition. These monthly matches are training for bigger matches. Ever since we started marking 1st rounds at distance the hit ratio has gone up @ 800 to 1K. First round hits at 800 to 1K ratios have gone up as well.

Remember Timberpup we have a steel match that goes to 550 so our diet of watching your own impact, first round hits, not having spotters, position, barricade shooting and offhand, kneeling, sitting and whatever else we can think of is there as well.

And + you only use spotters at distance bud...short strokers that shoot inside 300 to 400 yards can spot their own hits all day long with good glass. LOL

We like to see how CONSISTANT a shooter is with how many rounds they can shoot on target..not just get a LUCKY first round hit.

STIR STIR STIR.
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2008, 3:07 PM
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Jason...doesn't your match director have a program to help shooters improve their skills by paying their way to matches?

Twolf should use some of the match fees to help you guys out man. LOL
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:10 PM
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Nice COF. Sounds very straightforward. Having spotters seems like a luxury. It sure helps in the learning process. As twolf said, we always mark our miss in the dirt and toss another one.

So Bill, when you gonna get some pits and b27's...and butlers and golf carts and...
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wildcard View Post
Dang.. I'd love to come up and play. Do you guys offer some sort of fuel subsidy or rebate program though?

Ryan? Adam? Pete? Anyone want to head up June 14?
I was planning on the July and August match. You mean just for practice and data collection on the 14th? If we can get enough guys, it should make the gas bill a bit easier on the pocketbook.
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2008, 3:23 PM
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Im game Jason. If you guys want to split gas and driving. We can take my SUV 4 to 5 of us can drive in it and FIT ALL the gear we need.
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rksimple View Post
I was planning on the July and August match. You mean just for practice and data collection on the 14th? If we can get enough guys, it should make the gas bill a bit easier on the pocketbook.
That's right. I have July 6th marked on my calendar. So who's comming to share the gas bill?!

I can make it out for June 14th too if we get a few guys together though.
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:25 PM
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Ryan,

Just make sure to keep up on whats going on since we may shut down a practice day in the AM to test our COF for August's TBRC. No one that will be shooting the big match will get to shoot the COF prior to.

We will probably shut down practice on July 5th in the AM to test our 1K COF and do some timing stuff. After we are done you guys and my guys are welcome to practice.

August 9th will be a test day for our steel range COF...so no steel match that month.

Vu
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2008, 3:26 PM
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Im game Jason. If you guys want to split gas and driving. We can take my SUV 4 to 5 of us can drive in it and FIT ALL the gear we need.
So.. how many MPG you get? Beggars can't be choosers but let's calculate this for the shock value
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:40 PM
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Im gona say 20 on the freeway at 70mph.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2008, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rksimple View Post
. . .

So Bill, when you gonna get some pits and b27's...and butlers and golf carts and...
I have a few boxes of B27s already (we use them as pistol targets mostly) . . . as to the pits . . . well if I raise match fees to 150.00 starting next year and put all xtra into the "gotta build a pit" fund . . . maybe by mid 2010 . . . that is if the USFS approves it
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:48 PM
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Im gona say 20 on the freeway at 70mph.
Estimate 800 miles round trip.. $4.25/ gallon of fuel.. 20 MPG..

We are looking at $170 for the cost of fuel alone. It's not TOO bad in itself.. but it sure adds up if you start talking about multiple trips + food + match fees + ammunition costs.

So.. Who's in? 4 people should make it bearable.
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Old 06-02-2008, 3:50 PM
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Vu its a shame we don't have comperable set ups or we could do some type of postal match.
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Old 06-02-2008, 4:50 PM
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Estimate 800 miles round trip.. $4.25/ gallon of fuel.. 20 MPG..

We are looking at $170 for the cost of fuel alone. It's not TOO bad in itself.. but it sure adds up if you start talking about multiple trips + food + match fees + ammunition costs.

So.. Who's in? 4 people should make it bearable.
I can get 28-29 mpg doing 75 in the Camry. Fitting everyone's gear in there may be an issue with 4 of us. Adam's ride may be better for that.

Vu-I'll let you know if I plan on a practice day. Do you have the 1st of august off? I may want to come up on a friday. I'll give you a call.
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Old 06-02-2008, 5:52 PM
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If you guys are serious about leaning and training you'll make the trip. I can't even remember how many times I've done it by myself.In my Suburban.
I do remember the first monthly BR match I shot though. Drove up, got a room, pulled in the pits and got to fire 10 rounds only cause of weather. Turned around and went home. The match director felt real bad since I was a newbie to BR, but I told him that I have shot enough matches to know that this sometimes happens. Now at least you guys know that it would take some hellashish weather for Vu to call the match.
Heck he's probably hopin that will happen if you guys drive up.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Vu 308 View Post
We like to see how CONSISTANT a shooter is with how many rounds they can shoot on target..not just get a LUCKY first round hit.
Consistent first round hits are not luck.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:13 PM
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That's right. I have July 6th marked on my calendar. So who's comming to share the gas bill?!

I can make it out for June 14th too if we get a few guys together though.
June 14th I am in Brazil.
I'd be in for July.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Vu 308 View Post
LOL...please....

Notice we mark spotters at 800 on out. + In "field" conditions or working in teams you have a spotter to call corrections on impacts.

We don't need spotters to call corrections, we spot our trace and adjust accordingly ourselves

Spotting the first round simulates that condition. These monthly matches are training for bigger matches. Ever since we started marking 1st rounds at distance the hit ratio has gone up @ 800 to 1K. First round hits at 800 to 1K ratios have gone up as well.

We keep our dope, refer to our notes, and calculate our shot before pulling the trigger. If we are off a little refer to above.

Remember Timberpup we have a steel match that goes to 550 so our diet of watching your own impact, first round hits, not having spotters, position, barricade shooting and offhand, kneeling, sitting and whatever else we can think of is there as well.

So incorporate those skills to paper to hone them.

And + you only use spotters at distance bud...short strokers that shoot inside 300 to 400 yards can spot their own hits all day long with good glass. LOL

We like to see how CONSISTANT a shooter is with how many rounds they can shoot on target..not just get a LUCKY first round hit.

If you hit your target with the first shot why waste ammo, game over.

STIR STIR STIR.

TOSS TOSS MIX MIX

Seriously though its just different trains of thought - I believe in "one shot, one hit". IN my mind anyone can fire a spoiler and adjust. The proof of the pudding is figureing out the right dope for the first round hit. Time and practice will hone those skills thus improving your percentage of 1st round hits.

Last edited by Timberwolf; 06-02-2008 at 9:20 PM..
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
If you hit your target with the first shot why waste ammo, game over.
What if you had more than one "target" appear at the same spot?

Come shoot in the Sac Valley wind and then tell me how you made a hit every time.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:26 PM
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What if you had more than one "target" appear at the same spot?
The second dude that pops up after his buddy was just shot is pretty stupid.
When bullets are whizzing overhead, you stay in your foxhole.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:29 PM
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What if you had more than one "target" appear at the same spot?

Come shoot in the Sac Valley wind and then tell me how you made a hit every time.
Then I would hit each target as needed, not each target five times - practical vs target. Like I said different mindsets.

As to Saco wind been there done that, albiet a few years ago. As I recall y'all had flags at various ranges. We too have wind and thermals except of the canyon variety which change several times throughout the day and vary several times over the range. However we don't have flags, but we do have weeds that move, dust that blows, cottonwood trees that sway so wind estimation is similar.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:31 PM
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However we don't have flags, but we do have weeds that move, dust that blows, cottonwood trees that sway.
Only when the wind is REALLY moving.
When it's calm, we watch the dust clouds from bullet impacts of the shooters before us.
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:33 PM
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As a thought though I must say WEGC has all beat with wind oddities . . . I believe that range is possessed and the wind there has a mind of its own . . .
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:38 PM
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I believe that range is possessed and the wind there has a mind of its own . . .
It does.
We have a couple flags, a USA one at the public range which is about 300yds behind the firing line, and a little flag at the 500M pits.
It's crazy when you look at one flag pointing at you, turn around 180 degrees and the flag behind you is also pointing at you.
Then you feel wind on your face from a completely different angle than either flag shows...
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Old 06-02-2008, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
TOSS TOSS MIX MIX

Seriously though its just different trains of thought - I believe in "one shot, one hit". IN my mind anyone can fire a spoiler and adjust. The proof of the pudding is figureing out the right dope for the first round hit. Time and practice will hone those skills thus improving your percentage of 1st round hits.

One shot...one hit...sounds like a Tom Berringer movie to me. If I recall they have like 3 parts now?

Shooters shoot more rounds to hone skills. The more trigger time the better. Diet of long range precision and practical skills is our program up here. Hence the 2 matches per month. 1 to tighten things up on paper out to 1K and 1 to rail on the bolts and push the shooters speed and precision.

As for watching trace...only works in SOME conditions.

+ if I recall most of your meat and potatoes is inside what? 400? watching trace at 400yards? call it within an MOA? or 1/2? I'd like to see that myself.

Now watching for IMPACT and calling your correction is different.

I guess if we all had brakes up here we could watch trace a lil better.

I guess we will find out who's train and school of thought makes the better shooters in September....lol


***Pours gas on the fire***

150 rounds two days for North Vs South really shows who can hold hard and be consistant...none of this 30 rounds cause we shot these COFs over and over type of deals and know this range.

But I am sure our CBS will be a 850 yard dog that has been shot OVER
and over
and over
and over again......may take us newbies to the range a few shots to get dialed but we'll be alright.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
As I recall y'all had flags at various ranges.
Not anymore. We have 2 flags per range rules so they know what distance we are shooting. 600 and 1000 yards, and the 1K flag ain't worth much because it's on the other side of the embankment from the shooters. Other than that it's just like your place. Dirt, dust, grass, mirage.

And from what Vu tells me, the flag at 600 yards is where most of your bullets stop. Heck, ours still have another 600 yards to go

Last edited by Pthfndr; 06-02-2008 at 10:04 PM..
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:25 PM
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I've been nice here recently with CBSs between 100 and 300. My tactical / wierd position stuff is 450 and under - normally prone precision work is 500 to 900 normally on steel as the logistics of the target areas don't allow rapid target changing between COFs. The steel is range appropriate though - normally 1.25 to 1.5 MOA for the range sometimes smaller depending on my mood that morning.

For the N/S evening portion I'll have the whole range which really opens me up to LR COFs that I can normally only do myself during off hours and can't use during normal matches for safety reasons. So we'll have fun with stages only I have shot. The day portion will be mostly tactical stuff of 500 and under but it'll be fun none the less.
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Old 06-03-2008, 6:30 AM
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We are looking forward to it.

Also keep in mind if you want me to bring the dueling trees so we can battle head to head on those bad boys.

=) mano vs mano...do it like the Ultimate fighter where the team picks who shoots against who.

6" plates at 300yards with speed....
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Old 06-03-2008, 8:09 AM
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Sacramento has the finest range I have shot at in California. I think its pretty darn close to Raton if not equal.

Flags are nice but mirage is what you read if you want to hit at long ranges.

Vu and company have done a damm good job of running matches up in Sacramento

If you Sac is easy see you at next years US/Candian Matches. bring your 308 and school us how to shoot. LOL We locals do OK.

Or bring what fits you best and see you at the Championship in August.
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:16 AM
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Flags are nice but mirage is what you read if you want to hit at long ranges.
That is definately the truth. Sometimes the flags just confuse you....or at least me. The mirage is where its at.
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:20 AM
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I just lick my finger and hold it up in the air.
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:28 AM
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I just lick my finger and hold it up in the air.
I guess that you've got some skills......lol
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:33 AM
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I guess that you've got some skills......lol
He has not told you where else that finger goes.
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:33 AM
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I guess that you've got some skills......lol
Yeah.. i'm not doing it to feel the direction of the wind though.. that would be silly.

The saliva acts as a conduit for my body and mother nature.. she tells me what the wind is like down range

Edited to add: Speaking of mother nature.. it reminds me of one of the old American Gladiators.. hilarious: http://www.phrawg.com/viewfile.php?cat=movies&id=304

Last edited by wildcard; 06-03-2008 at 9:36 AM..
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Old 06-03-2008, 9:38 AM
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He has not told you where else that finger goes.
We're gettin real close to TMI.....Not sure I'm ready to travel that road with a group of shooters.....
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