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Old 01-21-2015, 10:35 PM
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Default (Pictures added) Appleseed weekend whats your take..

I decided that it would be good to really see what I was capable of with my rifles and what my marksmanship skills actually were. Sure, I shoot pretty often, mostly off-hand, I sight in my rifles at the range on occasion but mostly just go out to a few spots up the hill from where I live. From shooting up close blasting away at stuff placed all around the area to actually setting up steel plates and paper targets out to around 300 yards. Now when it comes to shooting golf balls, cans, balloons and other various things from 25, 50, and 75 yards I'm hitting stuff for the most part. When shooting out at 100 I'm hitting the target ring but I'm not putting groups that look like anything great and I tell myself well I hit it every time so thatís something. At 200 yards yeah I see some holes in paper and hear steel ring every now and then but groups are not there and I not dead sure where 4 or 5 of those rounds ended up. 300 and beyond hell it just feels good when I do hit the plate I donít waste paper targets out that far.

My girlfriend had participated in an Appleseed course back in 2009 in Colorado. I did not participate due to financial restraints at the time, but it caught my interest. I got to talk to the gentleman running the shoot, who was a local business owner extensively, he gave me all the info I needed to get out and do a shoot and some reading material. Fast forward. Due to life, kids, time and money I still had not gone out and participated in an Appleseed course by the end of 2014. Thanks to the awesomeness that is ďCalgunsĒ I caught the opportunity and took it.

So here is my Appleseed weekend:

I had a general idea of what to expect after talking with my gal and checking the RWVA website. So, I packed up my lunch, gear and some water and headed out to the range.

I showed up Saturday morning, a little early, when the Appleseed folks were setting up and getting everything together for the day. After a quick sign in and getting a packet and name tags, we got right to business. After a round of introductions and a safety briefing with line commands we got our rifles and went to the firing line.

I shot the first day using a stock 10/22 carbine with a 3x scope with a ohh so sweet 9.5 pound trigger pull

We started out with what they call the red coat target. It consists of four silhouettes and a 1Ē rectangle called Morganís shingle. The four silhouettes are scaled to size so at 25 yards the represent man sized targets at 100,200,300 and 400 yards and the Morganís shingle is a head shot at 250 yards. You can shoot the course of fire in any field position, standing, sitting, kneeling, squatting, or prone. 13 rounds three rounds each target and one for the head shot in 60 seconds. They do this to measure you current effective range with a rifle which is the smallest target you can hit three times.
here is my red coat from the AM next to my PM red coat

Attachment 384911

My Saturday AM target was not amazing. My furthest effective range was 200 yards and I only got the 100 yard target with the .30cal rule. After we shot the course we made our rifles safe after the line boss verified they were we went down range to collect our targets and post a new target sheet. We sounded off how we did and ate humble pie, well I did. They showed us the prone shooting position and a few different slings and back to the line. Our new targets were five 1Ē black squares on a sheet of grid paper, four in the corners and one in the middle. One mag, 5 rounds, and group them on the square using what you were just shown. This was repeated on the remaining four squares after being shown how to; acquire and adjust NPOA (natural point of aim), proper sight picture, how to read our groups and adjust our sights, what MOA is and how it works, the six steps to taking a shot, and squatting and standing shooting positions. For every five minutes on the line we were being taught for ten minutes, explaining the how and why to each position and being shown what works and doesnít work. After the bulk of the morningís teachings and getting acquainted with positions, slings, steps to taking the shot, proper sight alignment and adjustment we got to the heart of the shooting half of Appleseed.

Well maybe not the heart but definitely where all the fundamentals of shooting come into play. The AQT is the Army qualification test or the Appleseed qualification test depending on who you ask. The AQT is four stages of timed fire.

The first stage is standing firing on the silhouette that represents a full sized target at 100yards. 10 rounds in 2 minutes.

The second stage is firing at the two targets representing full sized targets at 200yards. Two mags ( 2 rounds in one 8 in the other) starting in the standing position. On the fire command transition into sitting or kneeling, load the 2 round mag fire into the left target, reload fire three more shift to the right target then fire five more. Total time is 55 seconds.

The third stage is again two mags of 2 and 8 this time firing at three targets representing full sized targets at 300yards. Again start in standing on the fire command drop into prone load 2 rounds fire two into the left target reload fire one more then shift to the center target fire three shift to the right target and fire the last four. Total time is 65 seconds.

The fourth stage is slow fire prone on four targets representing full sized targets at 400yards. You start in prone with two mags (2 and 8) load the 2 round mag fire two in the first two targets and three in the last two. Five minutes to get it done. Shots on this round count double.

Attachment 384912

First stage. My groups really open up standing I still need to work on my steady hold.

Second stage. Man this one was an *** kicker, take too long getting into position, hesitate or force the shot and the groups were bad or I didnít get all the shot off.

Third stage. I seemed to do pretty well on this one each time. I think it was due to the fact I took to prone fairly quick and had enough time to focus on my shots, 10 seconds is almost a lifetime.

Fourth stage. This stage was the deal breaker small targets but I had tons of time to make my shots. It really came down to using the lessons taught; trigger control foremost in my opinion. Although I had 30 seconds to make each shot I found that I still rushed and didnít make the best shots. I did this on a few of my AQTís.

So after our AQT it was getting to lunch time so we broke off the line got our lunches and circled up without anyone prompting to do so, it was kind of just natural. We had all been working hard both on and behind the line and we got to take off our respective hats had relax for a while. We started striking up conversations for a few minutes amongst ourselves then we got to the other half of Appleseed the history.

The three strikes of the match as our instructors called it. It was the story of April 19 1775 and the start of the revolutionary war. As we sat there eating lunch a few of the different instructors took turns telling of the march from Boston by the Red Coats up the road to Lexington and Concord and the powder alarm that proceeded them warning the countryside . Iím not going to go into the details as I wouldnít do it justice, but these folks did it straight from memory and I was really impressed.

A quick note on our instructors, we had eight folks out there from young adults (maybe 20? I donít know I didnít ask) to folks starting to go silver. Three of them were women including our shoot boss Laurie who was running the show. So it was cool to have young people carrying the torch and folks that have been here for a while doing the same with just as much vigor. It resonated with me that these men and women from different generations and walks of life all held great passion for what the Appleseed program stands for and the message they are passing onto the posterity of the people of that day in April 1775.

After lunch, we got back to the line. Our shoot boss and other instructors gave use some more instruction and we shot a few more AQTís and finished up with a red coat. On my last few AQTís of the day I posted a 219 and a 229 score. We shot the one that got a 219 I thought I did pretty well, but we were on a roll so I got right into my next AQT and shot it. When it was done they all had signed my first Rifleman AQT and surprised me with the info. I was stoked to say the least. We shot one more and I improved my score to a 229 the high for my day. The last target was another red coat I did a lot better than the morning, I didnít clear it but all my groups would fit under a nickel. Ok upon looking at my target again not a nickle but none the less still pretty happy with it.

Attachment 384913

Sunday was all business I was happy with Saturday and wanted to improve, so, I decided to shoot center fire with iron sights. I brought out my AR took off the red dot I had on it and threw on a carry handle off my brotherís colt. I built my AR , a nice sub moa barrel free floated, a quad rail that eats flesh, a decent trigger and all the little parts to build my upper and lower. Itís a shame I didnít just let the rifle shoot its self out there on the line, it might have done pretty well. With me behind it, well, not so much. I had to adjust the sights on the five 1Ē square targets. Then I had to manage to get my elbow under the pinned 20 Magpul mags I was running and finally focus on the six steps which sight picture and alignment played a big part. I shot ok but not great.

We took lunch again after working on some NPOA shift practice. Our shoot boss and instructors on the line noticed we were not making full use of the shifts and were muscling the shot instead. So they set up four different impromptu targets along the back stop and called out the different shapes to direct fire. They were so far apart we didnít have a choice but shift and well wouldnít you know it, it was a whole lot easier that way. So we took lunch and after the three strikes the day before didnít really what ground we would cover about that day in April. Well it was pretty remarkable to hear about some of the different individuals that were just common people that had a big effect on the day. From crack shot marksmen to burly English men who threw down their guns to surrender to a little old lady. I enjoyed it and I thought it set a clear picture just how unforeseen the event and actions of that day really were.

I could group but I could not break past 208 on my AQT scores for the day. I cleared my red coat at the end of the day so I did end it on a up note. I earned my Riflemanís patch but I got some work to do and I'm looking forward to it.

So what do you guys think is this something you guys would do and how do you think you would do before the course and then after?

Iíll get some pictures up of my targetsÖ else it didnít happen

Last edited by xXRifleManXx; 07-30-2015 at 7:03 PM..
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Old 01-22-2015, 5:44 AM
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Good job OP, it took me 2 tries to get my rifleman patch. Appleseed is the best bang for your buck course out there for rifles IMO. If anyone reading this is thinking of going, do it! You won't regret it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 7:37 AM
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When did you do it? And is it something you would do again?
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Old 01-22-2015, 7:49 AM
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Great write-up, thanks for sharing that with us.

I will do the Appleseed one of these days.
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Old 01-22-2015, 7:49 AM
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"IMO. If anyone reading this is thinking of going, do it! You won't regret it."

I signed up myself, my wife and my daughter last July or August for a Appleseed in Corona. I ended up on call for work that weekend and couldn't attend. Many emails to various email addresses to get either my money back or credit for the next Appleseed went unanswered. Eff them.
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Old 01-22-2015, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beardog308 View Post
"IMO. If anyone reading this is thinking of going, do it! You won't regret it."

I signed up myself, my wife and my daughter last July or August for a Appleseed in Corona. I ended up on call for work that weekend and couldn't attend. Many emails to various email addresses to get either my money back or credit for the next Appleseed went unanswered. Eff them.
Your time and money matter and I'm sure Appleseed would like to see you out there on the range. All the folks from Appleseed I have dealt with from the top to the bottom have all clearly stated what they will and will not do and have acted with integrity, even to their loss. I'll see if I can pm the guy in your area and have him contact you.
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Old 01-22-2015, 8:24 AM
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Great write up OP. I don't know how you remembered so much detail, were you taking notes? ;-) I definitely need to do an Appleseed or two. I have the 10/22, in the process of making it Appleseed ready.
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Old 01-22-2015, 8:28 AM
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Great write up OP. I don't know how you remembered so much detail, were you taking notes? ;-) I definitely need to do an Appleseed or two. I have the 10/22, in the process of making it Appleseed ready.
Man I wish I had taken notes there was some stuff that I know I left out. but yeah there's a lot of information getting thrown at you and it's pretty intense. I wish I had marked my target sheets more clearly other than just AM and PM so I could read my shot groups better. I'll know for next time!
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Old 01-22-2015, 8:56 AM
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PM Sent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by beardog308 View Post
"IMO. If anyone reading this is thinking of going, do it! You won't regret it."

I signed up myself, my wife and my daughter last July or August for a Appleseed in Corona. I ended up on call for work that weekend and couldn't attend. Many emails to various email addresses to get either my money back or credit for the next Appleseed went unanswered. Eff them.
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Old 01-22-2015, 9:24 AM
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Great write up hilltrucking! Thank you.

You're pre-Appleseed examples makes me smile and think about "calling the shot". It's a revelation when you can start to call "low, to the left" and walk out to your target and low and behold you see it and remember the shot and know what you did wrong there.

Appleseed is a great program and I see too many people waiting or hesitating for one reason or another, just get out there! Highly unlikely you're going to come away and say "man, I'm glad I waited so long."
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Old 01-22-2015, 9:54 AM
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Great write up hilltrucking! Thank you.

You're pre-Appleseed examples makes me smile and think about "calling the shot". It's a revelation when you can start to call "low, to the left" and walk out to your target and low and behold you see it and remember the shot and know what you did wrong there.

Appleseed is a great program and I see too many people waiting or hesitating for one reason or another, just get out there! Highly unlikely you're going to come away and say "man, I'm glad I waited so long."

Yeah I gotta say all you guys here that say you gotta make it out there. Start hitting up the Appleseed guys on the forum. Give them your email ask them keep you posted on events. Your more likely to get out there with someone asking you to go. Ask about any specials they got going locally or Apple Seed has going nationally. Last month they had vouchers to events very cheep. I wish I had know I would have gladly paid the price of one event to be able to send three people. Though the regular price is more then worth it.Engage these people, it will definitely paid its devidents they are out there volunteering their time and money( food,lodging,and gas ) to make these events happen. That's no small thing. Anyone here in the Sacramento that wants to go let me know I'm going to go out to next months event and would like to hear from ya.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:06 AM
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I did Appleseed a couple of years ago - definitely worth while.

I used a .22 AR since it didn't have bullet button, I was unable to find the ammo I normally use so took some bulk remington rubbish.
It was so dirty I had to clean the rifle at lunch time to keep it running, and still had too many fail to fires during AQT, hard to score well ;-)

To make matters worse a couple of weeks later I found I did have a couple of boxes of the good ammo ;-)

A couple of months later I went back to do Sunday again with better ammo, and scored rifleman a couple of times - and cleared the red coat.

When my daughter is a bit bigger I'll take her to do it, she can use the .22 and I'll give it a go with my featurless AR.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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My girlfriend had participated in an Appleseed course back in 2009 in Colorado.
Put a ring on it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beardog308 View Post
I signed up myself, my wife and my daughter last July or August for a Appleseed in Corona. I ended up on call for work that weekend and couldn't attend. Many emails to various email addresses to get either my money back or credit for the next Appleseed went unanswered. Eff them.
Your problem has been brought to the attention of the California State Coordinator who should be contacting you shortly via PM.

Appleseed is an all volunteer organization, and sometimes we do make mistakes. I hope you will give us the opportunity to resolve your issue. (note: I am an Appleseed Volunteer)
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Old 01-22-2015, 1:03 PM
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Sounds like a good time. Might have to look one of these up.
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Old 01-22-2015, 1:06 PM
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Sounds like a good time. Might have to look one of these up.
Here is the list of all of the Appleseed Events scheduled for California: http://appleseedusa.org/search-state...ame=California
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Old 01-22-2015, 3:56 PM
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What skill base do you need to participate in one of these events? The only rifle I have is a AR I built out of pretty decent parts, its not fancy but not a "budget" build either. I have pit about 100 rounds through it and its been in the safe for a couple years. That is about the extent of my rifle shooting experience.

I pretty much know nothing about shooting long guns other than the same basic safety stuff that applies to all guns.
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Old 01-22-2015, 4:02 PM
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What skill base do you need to participate in one of these events? The only rifle I have is a AR I built out of pretty decent parts, its not fancy but not a "budget" build either. I have pit about 100 rounds through it and its been in the safe for a couple years. That is about the extent of my rifle shooting experience.

I pretty much know nothing about shooting long guns other than the same basic safety stuff that applies to all guns.
Well the rifle doesn't make the man, and the less bad habits you have to fix the easier it is to focus on the techniques. You really don't need a large skill base other then the function of your gun. Pm rock6.3 I'm sure he can answer ANY questions you might have, I found he was a wealth of information on many topics.
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Old 01-22-2015, 4:17 PM
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Required skill set for participation in an Appleseed Event:

1. Teachable attitude.
2. Ability to follow basic safety rules without exception.

That's it. I've experienced participants with a knowledge base ranging from Camp Perry medal winners all the way down to 'we bought these because of the election and the guy at the gun store said you would teach us how to use them' (true story, and the rifle boxes had never been opened other than at the DROS!)

Bring your wife/boyfriend/significant other/kids/grandkids. We'll get them dialed in too!

In some ways it is easier if you are a newish shooter because those participants have fewer developed bad habits and it's always easier to learn the right way first and not have to unlearn the bad habits.

In short, no you don't need advanced skills, but if you have them we can help hone them.
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Old 01-22-2015, 4:52 PM
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Everyone who goes to Appleseed loves it, easily the best $60 I've ever spent. I'm probably going to retry for my patch in another month or 2, still need to pick up another 22 points. If you are on the fence about going, don't even think about it just do it.

I went shooting on BLM last weekend for the first time since my Appleseed event. I was able to shoot about 4-5 inch groups with my Marlin 60 at 150 yards with no effort whatsoever. Prior to Appleseed I couldn't even hit consistently at half that distance.

Can't wait to do another Appleseed, next time I'll bring my wife.
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Old 01-22-2015, 5:19 PM
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February Appleseed at SacValley Shooting Center is Valentines Day Weekend.

Bring the significant other (or don't) and you will be home in time Saturday afternoon to get cleaned up and do the (insert your preferred Valentines tradition here).
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:32 PM
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:29 PM
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Can I bring my AR-308 to one of these?
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:38 PM
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Yup.

There's a few events at rimfire-only ranges, but for the vast majority, it's Run What You Brung. Restrictions if any will be listed on the information page for each shoot.

Used to be common to have a line full of M1s, M1As, Mosins, and of course AR's and the like.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:26 AM
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Thanks for posting this OP! I'd been wanting to do this for a while, and finally just the other day I signed up for the one coming up in my area in February. Reading this I'm yet more inspired.
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Old 01-23-2015, 1:21 AM
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Waiting till August until they are back at Chabot again. Got a few months to decide...

10/22 or my AR
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Old 01-23-2015, 5:41 AM
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Can I bring my AR-308 to one of these?

Absolutely !
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Old 01-23-2015, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hilltrucking View Post
When did you do it? And is it something you would do again?
It was a couple years ago. I need to get to one again soon. My dad and I intended to make it a yearly thing but have failed so far. I'll definitely attend another.
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Old 01-24-2015, 7:26 AM
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added some pictures from the day
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:22 AM
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Good write up hilltrucking! Once I get some things in order I have to look into singing up for an Appleseed shoot.
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Old 01-24-2015, 5:40 PM
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Thanks for sharing OP. I was thinking if I should go to an appleseed event. Now I understand the course of fire, but still wondering if I can use my M&P 15-22 and put proper sling mount for the event. Hopefully I can join one sooner.
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Old 01-24-2015, 6:53 PM
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You most certainly can use your m&p 15-22, anyone can bring and use just about any gun*. The sling mount can be made to work.
I'm not an expert but I think the only things that can hold you back from being a better marksman are

Not being willing to learn

And putting it off saying "yeah I should do that one day"

The skills on the line are a big part but there is a huge component that makes those marksmanship skills mean something and that's the historical significance of that day.

Here is the Appleseed website.

https://www.appleseedinfo.org/
There is also a link on the bottom of each and every calguns page.
I encourage each and everyone of you guys and gals to take a look around the website.
It may not strike you as such but it really is something that will make an impact on you, you might only walk away being a better shot or you might walk away with a lot more.
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Old 01-24-2015, 7:53 PM
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What a great post. Thanks for taking the time. I am scheduled to take the Apple Seed course at Chabot next month.

What is the .30 caliber rule you talking about?
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Old 01-24-2015, 8:19 PM
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".30 Caliber Rule" means treat each shot as though it was actually a .30 caliber projectile. Meaning that a very near miss might be counted as a hit, if a .308 inch diameter body of revolution centered on the point of impact breaks a higher scoring line.

We don't usually invoke or worry about the ".30 Caliber Rule." It's about teaching, not making high scores.
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Old 01-24-2015, 9:05 PM
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I see there's a 2 day in Rainbow in April. That's the closest to SD I see. I'm gonna look into it, sounds like fun.
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB1964 View Post
I see there's a 2 day in Rainbow in April. That's the closest to SD I see. I'm gonna look into it, sounds like fun.
Both appleseeds I've attended have been at south bay rod and gun club in Dulzera.
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Old 01-25-2015, 9:10 AM
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Can you use a scope? My eyesite sucks with iron sites.
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Old 01-25-2015, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
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Can you use a scope? My eyesite sucks with iron sites.
Absolutely yes.
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Old 01-25-2015, 7:14 PM
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When are they going to be in San Diego again? If they could only get on Camp Pen that would be AWSOME!
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Old 01-25-2015, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
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Both appleseeds I've attended have been at south bay rod and gun club in Dulzera.
Mighta missed it, but didn't see one closer than Rainbow this year. S. Bay would be much easier!
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