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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Do you guys know what the penal code says about that?
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"Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . you are, after all, anonymous." -Barry Ritholtz Help be a better advocate for the 2nd Amendment here. |
#2
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Do some searches. Look at recent posts by CCWFacts.
Depends upon whether it is registered to you or not. Depends upon your attitude. Depends where you are.
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John -- bitter gun owner. All opinions expressed here are my own unless I say otherwise. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. ![]() |
#3
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IF NOTHING ELSE IS WRONG, it's two misdemeanors: concealed carry without a permit, and loaded carry without a permit. These are normally handled as a small fine and a 10-year probation. That means, in the best possible case, you have a criminal record (misdemeanor), fines and legal fees, and a ten-year loss of gun rights. It's not the end of the world, it won't destroy your life, etc, but it's a bummer.
Now, what do I mean, "if nothing else is wrong"? There are a whole bunch of things that could shift it from "misdemeanor" to "felony". These include, but are not limited to:
So, even in the best case, it's no laughing matter, and it's also easy for it to shift over to the "felony" side, and that means jail time, lifetime loss of gun rights, lifetime loss of voting rights, lifetime travel restrictions, and a serious criminal record. Despite all this, many otherwise law abiding people in this state do carry without permits. It's a personal decision of balancing risks of being a victim of a crime vs. all the legal consequences. In fact, I have heard many cases of police advising people to carry without permits, in urban areas where it's obvious that no permit will be issued but the person obviously needs to carry. The best example is Oakland's Patrick McClough. Oakland PD told him he should start carrying, before they issued him a permit. But he was facing greatly higher risks than ordinary people, so his risk factors were different.
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#4
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Generally speaking, if you're an otherwise law abiding citizen, you could expect two years informal probation, a fine of around 600.00 and loss of your gun. Some DA's will add a two year gun ban that is negotiable. If you have a second offense, it could be a felony but it's usually plea bargained down to a misdemeanor.
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#5
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Speaking as someone who was the victim of a near-fatal attack as a child, and as a consequence finds it nearly intolerable to not be armed, I find it ironic that a penalty for trying to protecting yourself is to be even further disarmed for 10 years, and thus even more vulnerable to criminals, even at home
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BATF agent: "We're with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms." Arms dealer: "Let me guess... this isn't about the alcohol or tobacco." ~ Lord of War "One person can make a difference.... but sometimes they shouldn't". ~ Marge Simpson ![]() |
#6
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Misdemeanor? First I have ever heard of that, but it is the first time I have thought about it at all. My guess as someone who doesn't know much about average sentence lengths would have been a felony, short jail time, loss of rights for life. If it is just a misdemeanor with fines and probation, that is interesting.
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#7
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" a ten-year loss of gun rights."
I can find no reference to this. Also, I have checked the list of Prohibited Persons http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf. See page 19 - 20. |
#8
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The legal definition of a Felony is any crime punishable by incarceration of MORE than one year in STATE PRISON. Last edited by RomanDad; 05-19-2008 at 1:35 PM.. |
#9
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#10
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Based on experience of somebody I know:
First time he was picking some trash from freeways. Loaded, UNREGISTERED, gun found in a car during traffic stop. Now (second offense) he is doing two years. I don't know too many details...... but both times it was in LA county.
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#11
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So if I servered on a jury that convicted a gang member of murder and did not have a CCW but was stoped by the Sheriff and was found to be in possession of a LEGALLY reg. to myself handgun, If I could prove that threats were made to the jury members by someone from the gang, I MAY get away with that with only a warnning?
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![]() Thieves are the lowest form of life out there, except for liberal politicians, of course, but that's redundant. |
#12
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One other thing: how often do you get searched? Normal, professional, law-abiding people rarely have occasion to interact with the police, much less be searched. Someone who gets traffic stops or gets searched by the police with any regularity should ask himself why that is happening. But even if everything is perfect: you have a valid reason to be carrying, you're looking respectable, etc, he could still insist on reporting it and the DA could insist on charging you. It's entirely up to them and if they love "getting guns off the street", then they can do that.
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![]() Last edited by CCWFacts; 05-19-2008 at 2:02 PM.. |
#13
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There is ANECDOTAL evidence of some specific police officers who find concealed guns in the possession of otherwise "good people" (yes, cops have a good idea if you're a normal upstanding citizen or a gang-banging scumbag before the arrest is made) and are in particularly nice moods simply saying "Hey... Thats illegal... Unload it and don't do that again". But you cant rely on catching THAT cop, in THAT mood.... SO DON'T DO IT! The moment you break the law, you put yourself at the mercy of another person. If you have such proof of an on-going, specific threat of violence, go to your local PD or sheriff and apply for a CCW. Thats REALLY, REALLY good cause even in the worst departments, and most will try to work with you if the threat is legitimate and verifiable. Last edited by RomanDad; 05-19-2008 at 2:22 PM.. |
#14
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Haha, or they'll say "just call 911 if you need us there!" Do you really think any department will "work with" someone if they have a clear and present threat to their lives regularly and you aren't a member of the sheriff's fund raising posse? It's a nice idea, but hardly real for most of us on this forum.
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Fleeing the PRK on 3/8/09!! |
#15
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#16
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Most of us on the forum are not being threatened with death by criminal gang members in retaliation for their service on a jury. MOST victims of crime don't get warned prior to their victimization. (that of course is the fatal flaw with our current CCW system)... HOWEVER, even LAPD will issue CCWs to people who have SERIOUS, IMMEDIATE, VERIFIABLE threats of violence against them, at least on a temporary basis while the threat remains credible. Will that work as a permanent way of gaming the system to get a CCW? NOPE. Last edited by RomanDad; 05-19-2008 at 2:42 PM.. |
#17
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I have proof of the threat in the court records and the warning given to us buy the court officer that they are a bad gang and don't care about you or me.
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![]() Thieves are the lowest form of life out there, except for liberal politicians, of course, but that's redundant. Last edited by liketoshoot; 05-19-2008 at 3:20 PM.. |
#18
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RomansDad put it well when he said, "But you cant rely on catching THAT cop, in THAT mood.... SO DON'T DO IT! The moment you break the law, you put yourself at the mercy of another person. "
If you have solid documented threats in a court case, you can probably get a CCW issued almost anywhere in California except for SF and a handful other other extremely anti-CCW locations.
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#19
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Yeah... I thought of San Francisco after I posted... Unfortunately, if you live in San Francisco, you can bring the gang member in with you, he can sign a sworn affidavit telling the police the exact time and manner he plans to murder you, and they still wont give you a CCW.... |
#20
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Well as I'm moving real soon I'll try not to worry about them, but I do keep an eye in the rear view mirror for strange cars going the same way I am.
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![]() Thieves are the lowest form of life out there, except for liberal politicians, of course, but that's redundant. |
#21
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lol, yep.
I've had an "armed burglar" steal from my home (he left the knife in the bedroom)..and while that's more than adequate GC for me and my family (aside of the normalcy of shootings just 100 yds away and throughout my city), it would be laughed at heartily by Commissar Rupf of CCCounty.
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Fleeing the PRK on 3/8/09!! |
#22
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So what do people do in SF who have been involved in gang trials and fear for their lives? Simple, they get killed. Problem solved! Better to have a few dead witnesses, and a whole population that's too scared to report crimes, than to allow guns on the street. Any number of dead bodies are better than issuing a few CCW permits.
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#23
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#25
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Huna koa: Well, you're in San Bernardino County. Fact is, it's easy to get a permit there. The problems are in LA, SF, etc. In SF, literally, there is nothing that justifies an ordinary citizen carrying a gun. If you want a CCW in SF, the way to get it is to run for DA, and win.
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#27
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There exist three solutions to the criminalization of concealed carry.
1) Open carry unloaded in incorporated or 'prohibited' areas, avoiding gun free-school zones. 2) Unloaded, cased, and locked carry. The fully enclosed case could be a case like the safepacker or a bagmaster belt case locked with a small luggage lock. I believe this would comply with 626.9 provided you weren't on school grounds.(Correct me if I'm wrong) 3) Leave it at home in your safe so when you need it, you cant possibly use it.
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![]() Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#28
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IIRC, there's also an exception in the PC for short term unlicensed concealed carry under certain circumstances. The example I was given went something like this:
Your car breaks down in the ghetto/ deserted road where you feel you might be the victim of a violent crime. You can lock and load (assuming you have the gun with you) while you wait for the tow truck. It should be noted, concealed carry of a fixed blade knife or dagger is a felony under CA law. ![]() |
#29
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I personally wouldn't risk it. I happen to have an exposed security guard firearm permit (Carry at and to and from work), a NV CCW and Government I.d that says I am a security officer with a certain federal agency. I work in Oakland at night. With all of that I could still be busted if I concealed my weapon. There are a lot of great cops out there, just remember, it only takes one to be a D$%*!!!!!!!!
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#30
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Also, remember that most DA's are not interested in justice. They are interested in climbing that ladder. They have no problem making an example out of you for CCW violations just so they can get ahead. Sorry to say it that way but it's true. Don't risk it and don't give them the satisfaction. Get a CCW licesne, be legal!!
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#32
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What planet are you from? Don't you realize that in most counties in California, this is simply not possible.
Don't get me wrong. I do not advocate violating 12025. But most of us can't get a CCW. CitaDel's listed options are the only legal recourses available to us. |
#33
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What i have seen typically in court is a small fine, court ordered destruction of the weapon, 1-3 years informal probation with search & seizure terms and a no dangerous weapons terms.
really the biggest punishment is the probation terms saying possess no weapon. |
#34
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Yeah. That's the big one. That, and the risk of being escalated to a felony if there are any other problems: school zones, government property, etc.
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#35
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So does this mean you have to give up all your guns, or they just have to stay at home during the probation period?
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#36
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[QUOTE=MudCamper;1224282]What planet are you from? Don't you realize that in most counties in California, this is simply not possible.
QUOTE] Just a point of clarification. CCWs are attainable in most counties (40 out of 58), but the 18 hard to impossible counties have high poulations. So most people in California can't get a CCW, but most counties issue.
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#37
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You could say (roughly) that 80% of California's counties issue, but 80% of Californians live in locations where issuance is difficult or impossible. "Difficult or impossible" means that a lawsuit would be the only possible avenue, and the outcome of a lawsuit is never guaranteed.
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#38
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#40
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![]() If you have to ask, there is no reason to try and convince you...Good luck. I was on Jury duty here in Fresno about 8 years ago.Another case was going on while I was waiting in the courtroom, this guy was arrested for a DUI and the officers also found a loaded Ruger .38 in the door panel of his truck. On top of his DUI stuff he also lost the gun, it was ordered to be destroyed and three years probation. Pretty funny that carrying certain knives are a felony here but a loaded concealed firearm is only two mis, its actually kind of cool. I used to believe in the old tried by 12 than carried by 6 saying then we got a new sheriff and now I have a permit. I should mention a female sheriff that believes on our right to carry and protect ourselves, pretty cool. |
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