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  #1  
Old 11-28-2014, 10:58 AM
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Default Magpul training DVDS: Don't buy them - Travis Haley

In response to Magpul's DVD boxed set, Travis Haley says:

I've had a lot of people ask me about this: Be careful buying training DVDs that 7 yrs old. If you know how adaptive we are in our training programs then you get my point... If you don't then here: DO NOT BUY THESE. "yes this message is approved by Travis Haley."

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/11/27...ale-for-99-95/
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2014, 11:08 AM
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He said it! Travis Haley Facebook
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2014, 11:35 AM
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Good man. I hope people can understand that. Although the basic ones aren't bad for beginners
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2014, 11:50 AM
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But Travis Haley isn't affiliated with Magpul anymore. He's left and formed his own company.

So... lets just put all the cards on the table. That doesn't mean I disagree with him.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2014, 10:56 AM
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Doesn't he still collect royalties from video sales though
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2014, 10:07 PM
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I just ordered these yesterday along with Magpuls 2015 calendar....
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2014, 12:00 AM
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Nah...those DVDs are fine for what they are. 2 arms, 2 legs, how many different techniques can one come up with?
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2014, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beretta929mm View Post
Nah...those DVDs are fine for what they are. 2 arms, 2 legs, how many different techniques can one come up with?

Travis can come up with 100 ways to hold a hangun. It doesnt matter if it works or not. Its about the fanboys and SALES. Its like a cult. If u believe it, it will work.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2014, 3:59 PM
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Who's Travis Haley and why should we care what he says?
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by m98 View Post
Travis can come up with 100 ways to hold a hangun. It doesnt matter if it works or not. Its about the fanboys and SALES. Its like a cult. If u believe it, it will work.
Bingo.

The amount of garbage verbiage in his videos is just insane, but people buy into it and he wants people buying his new stuff. Here's an example of his newer stuff, the sheer volume of buzzwords and crap in just the first 5 minutes is staggering:
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:07 PM
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Ouch!
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m98 View Post
Travis can come up with 100 ways to hold a hangun. It doesnt matter if it works or not. Its about the fanboys and SALES. Its like a cult. If u believe it, it will work.
Bing bing bing bing.....


And guys will lap this up. Just watch the trend of hate build up against magpul after this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Bingo.

The amount of garbage verbiage in his videos is just insane, but people buy into it and he wants people buying his new stuff. Here's an example of his newer stuff, the sheer volume of buzzwords and crap in just the first 5 minutes is staggering:

Lol I blasted this video from day one, here publicly actually. The wolves came out and I got chewed for bashing the legend and not soaking in every letter from his mouth.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:12 PM
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
Lol I blasted this video from day one, here publicly actually. The wolves came out and I got chewed for bashing the legend and not soaking in every letter from his mouth.
Yeah, I recall that thread. There's more garbage language used in the first 5 minutes of that video than I've seen in some sales/marketing meetings about shifting the paradigm to new verticals by adapting products to meet the demands of the internet of things by way of integrating cloud services as a platform.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2014, 4:16 PM
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"Front sight, press" is obsolete?

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Old 11-30-2014, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
"Front sight, press" is obsolete?

-- Michael
Yes, the tactical training video industry has dynamically adapted past you.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2014, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Yes, the tactical training video industry has dynamically adapted past you.
No, that's not it at all.

A new paradigm has been achieved beyond the corporeal plane of tacit-knowing, by which all other precedent modes of cognitive acquisition were deemed subterranean in their tectonic building processes, to the point that the lower tier tract of symbiotic recognition of the weapon was organically assimilated at all limitations, whereby it subsided to subsequently being overcome by more soulful goal motivating triumphant accessions.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2014, 6:34 PM
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I couldnt watch more than 2 minutes of that clip before the Acronyms and buzz words got to me. I guess the new thing is using words that your target audience will not understand but will still repeat like a mantra.

I used to like Haley, some of his videos were pretty down to earth and more about teaching than sounding cool.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2014, 7:10 PM
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It always amazes me that folks will waste spend good money on videos to "learn" how to shoot but won't go shoot matches like USPSA, steel, 3gun, etc., where you can increase your gun handling skills and get a lot of positive input from a bunch of good to REALLY a good shooters???

And....have a bunch of fun doing it.
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It makes it bigger and longer.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2014, 7:26 PM
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i just watch them on youtube for free.

no money wasted. yay!
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  #21  
Old 11-30-2014, 7:43 PM
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Vickers comment from one of those links:
Quote:
Larry Vickers says:
November 28, 2014 at 19:44

No matter what you think about the content of the Magpul DVD’s they have brought more people to the training market to attend classes. I have students in classes on a regular basis who state they started with these videos and then decided to start signing up for classes – that is a common remark made by students

No videos made by anyone are a substitute for attending a class but they can certainly act as a primer to get people out and shooting
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2014, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymz View Post
Who's Travis Haley and why should we care what he says?
Exactly what I was thinking
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2014, 7:52 PM
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***

Last edited by Anthracis; 11-30-2014 at 9:51 PM..
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Old 11-30-2014, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Yes, the tactical training video industry has dynamically adapted past you.
That reminds me: I still need to buy a Dynamic Pie Concepts ball cap.

-- Michael
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2014, 10:53 PM
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+1 and those dvd's are NOT cheap for what they are. I would say for the kind of training that people are trying to acquire by buying these DVD they'd be better of paying for a class at front sight, Tactical Response ( dont hate me ), Norcal Medtac, or a going right to the "source" and taking a class from Haley Strategic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
It always amazes me that folks will waste spend good money on videos to "learn" how to shoot but won't go shoot matches like USPSA, steel, 3gun, etc., where you can increase your gun handling skills and get a lot of positive input from a bunch of good to REALLY a good shooters???

And....have a bunch of fun doing it.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2014, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m98 View Post
Travis can come up with 100 ways to hold a hangun. It doesnt matter if it works or not. Its about the fanboys and SALES. Its like a cult. If u believe it, it will work.
And next year there will be new ways to do everything, and moar DVDs to sell!

Louie Awerbuck once had some choice things to say about these newfangled training methods, largely echoing a lot of the points already made in this thread.

But what do I know, I still use the Weaver stance . . .
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Old 12-01-2014, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheExiled View Post
Good man. I hope people can understand that. Although the basic ones aren't bad for beginners
This; they are much better than nothing at all. For everyone else get trained if you can.....
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Old 12-01-2014, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
It always amazes me that folks will waste spend good money on videos to "learn" how to shoot but won't go shoot matches like USPSA, steel, 3gun, etc., where you can increase your gun handling skills and get a lot of positive input from a bunch of good to REALLY a good shooters???

And....have a bunch of fun doing it.
I have to watch them so I can design new stages for matches.
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2014, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
It always amazes me that folks will waste spend good money on videos to "learn" how to shoot but won't go shoot matches like USPSA, steel, 3gun, etc., where you can increase your gun handling skills and get a lot of positive input from a bunch of good to REALLY a good shooters???

And....have a bunch of fun doing it.
Contrast that with the "if you having a problem, then you are doing it wrong" posters who recommend that you don't waste anymore ammo reinforcing "bad" habits, and get trained by a "qualified" instructor instead.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2014, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
Vickers comment from one of those links:
I admit that I am one of those people. I didn't know about professional firearm training until I saw a commercial of Magpul back in 2010. Then I Google it and found Alias and other companies.
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  #31  
Old 12-10-2014, 1:15 AM
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The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
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Old 12-10-2014, 4:00 AM
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^^^ Lmao! That was great.^^^
What's the name of that video clip?
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  #33  
Old 12-10-2014, 4:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreppin916 View Post
+1 and those dvd's are NOT cheap for what they are. I would say for the kind of training that people are trying to acquire by buying these DVD they'd be better of paying for a class at front sight, Tactical Response ( dont hate me ), Norcal Medtac, or a going right to the "source" and taking a class from Haley Strategic.

LoL, do you know the cost of those classes???

As was said earlier, these DVDs are stepping stones that prompt people to realize that they do need more training.

Just sayin'


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  #34  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:21 AM
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Damn. The dynamics of operating a handgun have just surpassed me.

I'm selling all of mine and sticking with long guns & edged weapons.... but I'll probably behind on the dynamics of those as well.
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  #35  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:39 AM
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I think this is his new company's mission statement
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  #36  
Old 12-10-2014, 11:30 AM
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I think Travis is back with Magpul.

He was at our club(Cresap Rifle Club/North of DC) last Saturday doing/filming a review of a couple of Magpul products.
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  #37  
Old 12-10-2014, 11:56 AM
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Even though I've produced a few training DVDs, I actually don't think of them as 'training', per se. To borrow from Coyle's Talent Code, developing a skill requires 3 things: ignition, deep practice and master coaching.
Ignition being the necessary ingredient to motivate to overcome the inevitable obstacles to come. I think the DVDs absolutely drove many folks to take a class, that probably wouldn't have done that. As Vickers mentioned earlier.
However, they don't serve as good a role for practicing or coaching.
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