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Gunsmithing & How To Pro, Amateur & WECSOG and Tutorials, Guides & OLL Build Instructions |
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#41
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I have a question...
whats this all about? Quote:
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California Uber Alles, California Uber Alles Uber Alles California, Uber Alles California I am Governor Jerry Brown, My aura smiles and never frowns, Soon I will be President... |
#42
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IIRC, the right side bolt guide rail on a full-auto AK is slotted for the sear to pass through it.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#43
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Is that illegal to use? A lot of people have Virgin kits that might come with those. I have not seen it brought up. I have only seen Oaklanders post on FCG parts.
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California Uber Alles, California Uber Alles Uber Alles California, Uber Alles California I am Governor Jerry Brown, My aura smiles and never frowns, Soon I will be President... |
#44
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I'd suggest doing some searches on some of the AK-centric forums to see what they say about using slotted rails in semi-auto builds.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#45
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I am going to be researching this more. That letter was the first time I had seen anything about the rails being brought up.
and now for those as curious as I....a visual. The lighter colored parts are AK builder...the darker, factory Yugo.
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California Uber Alles, California Uber Alles Uber Alles California, Uber Alles California I am Governor Jerry Brown, My aura smiles and never frowns, Soon I will be President... Last edited by technique; 07-16-2009 at 12:39 PM.. |
#46
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Quote:
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California Uber Alles, California Uber Alles Uber Alles California, Uber Alles California I am Governor Jerry Brown, My aura smiles and never frowns, Soon I will be President... |
#48
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http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr478.92.htm
note that even though it only refers to "licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms", ATF has the opinion that it applies even for homebuilt firearms by non-licensees.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#49
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I think they just don't understand the "mfg with *intent* to sell", as where you are required by law to have a mfg license/FFL 07. They seem to be convinced that at NO point are you allowed to sell a homebuilt firearm...I have provided all the resources I can on the subject to support my claim the YES in fact you can legally sell a homebuilt firearm, and in doing so you need to follow the same rules as an FFL 07 at that point (engraving and such)...so long as you did not build it with the specific intent of selling there after.... Some people act like this is a new concept or something.
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California Uber Alles, California Uber Alles Uber Alles California, Uber Alles California I am Governor Jerry Brown, My aura smiles and never frowns, Soon I will be President... |
#50
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This is a GREAT thread. Only thing I CANT find, is any legal language mentioning building a receiver from a "flat" and especially building an "ak style" pistol. Hope that makes sense? Just trying CMA with printed laws to keep in my case.
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#52
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I'm looking to build a rifle from a flat..I've heard of build partys from a kid at a local sacramento show.. does any one know of these get togethers? Any one know where to get a good flat or pre- bent? I'm in sacramento...thank you for any info...
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#54
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How many would you like to build? There is no limit on the number of firearms you can build for personal use.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#55
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I need a link or number of the actual code that says its ok for me as a non felonious citizen to build my own mac-11, AK, FAL, etc. and that i don't need to put any markings on it (i don't sell guns..only buy them). Maybe even an ATF letter or two. I'd like to print it out and keep it in the case with my new MAC i'm building. I'll probably also include copies of receipts for the various parts kits i bought to build it. Don't want Barney Fife thinking i filed off the markings or something stupid.
Thanks. P.S. The letter in the first post is good but i'd like more back up on the issue.
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Born2Lose 1904 PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER |
#56
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There is no Penal code that says it is ok for you to build your own firearms. The PC doesn't work that way, everything is legal unless specifically prohibited.
Same thing with required markings, there is no PC that states that a homebuilder must mark a firearm. The law does require licensed manufacturers to mark the firearms that they make, but it does not require the same of non-licensees.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#57
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Ok thanks. So then the best thing would be to print some ATF letters that show its not illegal for my own peace of mind.
I see a lot of mentions of rifles and shotguns but not much being said on Pistols..why is that? Also found the Firearms FAQ at the new ATF website. Enjoy! http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/fire...parts-assembly Also found this..its specifically deals with building firearms in CA. http://savvysurvivor.com.cnchost.com...uilt_firea.htm
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Born2Lose 1904 PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER Last edited by Born2Lose; 12-31-2009 at 4:02 PM.. |
#58
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so if i wanted to sell in a ppt a homebuilt ak pistol, i would need to mark them,
name, serial # city/state of mfg caliber that's it right? |
#59
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HK91/MP5 Flats
I am new to Calguns.net. Found you while searching for info on building HK91/MP5 from flats. I wolud like to know a source for parts kits for both if available. I have a source for flats but if I cannot locate the parts kits they are useless. Also does anyone know the current skinny on when a flat becomes a firearm and the folded flat machinegun vs. semi-auto issue?
Thanks |
#61
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If I put a serial number, place of manufacture, and a model #; would this not imply manufacture with intent to sell? I am thinking that leaving the receiver blank would indicate intent for personal use only. That or something like "Manufactured under Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 for personal use only" etched on receiver. Should/would this pass LEO scrutiny in an eCheck situation?
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#62
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Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#63
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#64
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Does the name stamped on the build HAVE to be a person ,or could it be a corporation {LLC}?
__________________
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms,it will be because we destroyed ourselves" -Abraham Lincoln,a summation of a speech given at the Lyceum in 1838 ======================================= "Revolution against tyranny is the most sacred of duties" - Benjamin Franklin -1775 ======================================= |
#65
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With that said, the "Manufacturer" or "Make" of the gun can be whatever you want to name it. It doesn't have to be your name, your business (unless you are a licensed manufacturer). You can label it: Bad MoFo Arms, Pretty Pink Pony mfg, Rainbow Ordnance Co., whatever you want
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-A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.* *participation may vary by location. Not valid in California. |
#66
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What is the appropriate depth for the numbers etc. to be engraved to? Only thing I've seen is .003" deep or 1/16" high, but the post was several years old and mentioned ATF changing those dimension at their whim. Also any specific CA requirements in that regard or just the ATF?
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#67
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#68
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[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2] [Revised as of April 1, 2003] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 27CFR479.102] [Page 188-189] TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS--Table of Contents Subpart G--Registration and Identification of Firearms Sec. 479.102 How must firearms be identified? (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and [[Page 189]] (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. (b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases). (c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part. (d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or impracticable. (e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section. (f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section. (2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part. as a note, the ATF NFA Handbook is available HERE, the issue is addressed in chapter 6 and 7...marking requirements are the same for both licensees and nonlicensees who manufacture a NFA firearm. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/ the ATF currently has this in thier regulations book under Chaper 7 "Manufacturing of NFA Firearms" Section 7.4 The identification of firearms. 7.4.1 Serial numbers. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm.120 The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. 7.4.1.1 What is an acceptable serial number? Alpha characters (letters), for example a name, are not acceptable as a serial number. A proper serial number may contain such characters or letters, but it must have at least one numeric character (number). ATF takes the view that marking “legibly” means using exclusively Roman letters (A, B, C, and so forth) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, and so forth).121 Deviations from this requirement have been found to seriously impair ATF’s ability to trace firearms involved in crime. 7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (1) The model, if such designation has been made; (2) The caliber or gauge; (3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and (4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place of business.122 7.4.3 Measuring the depth of markings. The depth of all markings is measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers is measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#70
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This may seem rather a basic question, but since the margin for error is pretty steep I thought it should not go unasked.
Choosing to mark a home made AKM pattern rifle, is the following acceptable/defensible? ROM AK 7.62X39 ZYX001 Hometown, CA (where ZYX = initials) More specifically asked: Do I have to add "model", "caliber", "serial no." etc.? Common sense would dictate that it can be inferred by the markings, but is required to be spelled out? |
#71
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I just recently did my first AK build with the help of a great guy here on the forum.
When asked what I wanted stamped on the receiver, I said I don't want anything stamped on it...only stamping on the receiver are the markings for safe, fire and FA. The piece is NOT FA...just to clear that point up. Now I realize I was wrong and should of had something on there. At this point what should I do re some sort of #'s or initials on it? Where also should these ID marks be placed so as to be noticed? OR is it really necessary to mark some sort of ID markings on there at all? I really want to be in compliance with the law. I'm collecting parts for a future build and want to do it right the next time around. Any advice and or suggestions are more then welcome... Thanks!
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~~ Happiness is a warm gun!! ~~ |
#72
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Now, I personally mark everything with a serial number, but don't bother with the Name, City, State markings.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#73
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Thank for the info, I kinda figured as much. But I wasn't sure how to go about the next one. Perhaps the next build will have my date of birth on there, or some such thing.
I don't ever plan on selling any of my guns, did that once due to divorce and sorely regret letting go of some excellent collector pieces. Live and learn is the motto in life... Thanks for the info...
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~~ Happiness is a warm gun!! ~~ |
#74
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I've never marked any of my homebuilt guns with anything more than F'ups from me. It is 100% legal to not have any markings at all. However, if you want to mark it, I suggest marking it to ATF standards. There are both size and depth requirements as well as what info is required to be there if you end up transfering it to someone else.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#75
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My next question may seem over kill on my knowledge on the 922r compliance parts list. The following list is what I have on my build. There's no pistol grip at the moment, as I have it in a rifle configuration, but I do have one for it. Also, even though I know I don't need to have one on there, is a Solar Tech BB.
Receiver Barrel Gas piston Trigger Hammer Sear Disconnector Butt stock Fore grip Magazine, floor plate, and follower. In total it's 12 parts that I've got. Is it six (6) parts to make it all 922r? Would big brother really take a count on how many there are? Or are they making us whistle Dixie?
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~~ Happiness is a warm gun!! ~~ |
#77
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Putting a ST BB or any other mag lock on a featureless rifle is really just plain STUPID. Having a mag lock on the gun means that you are stuck using 10 round or less mags. Having a featureless build lets you use any mag you want and you can drop them without a tool. Yea, the law doesn't make any sense but, antis aren't the brightest people in the first place.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#79
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key word in the above post is "featureless". No, you don't need a maglock on a featureless semi-auto centerfire rifle.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#80
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...58&postcount=1 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...83&postcount=1 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...90&postcount=2 https://calguns.net/calgunforum/show...&postcount=772 Next time I see you I'll show you some other stuff...
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
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