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Gunsmithing & How To Pro, Amateur & WECSOG and Tutorials, Guides & OLL Build Instructions |
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#81
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#82
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I had sent an email to the ATF on this matter just to have clarification on the laws. as well if I chose not to put markings on a fire arm that wont every be sold was it a problem. here is the result of my inquiry:
This correspondence is in response to your recent inquiry emailed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) concerning marking of firearms manufactured for personal use. As you may know, a significant part of the Federal firearms law provisions concerns the requirements pertaining to the manufacture, importation, distribution, possession, and sale of firearms. Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual may make a "firearm." The term "firearm" includes the following: ... (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. We suggest that you at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is lawfully transferred to another person in the future. Additional information concerning unlicensed persons is available at: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. Please note that depending on the extent of your manufacturing activities you might need to apply for a Federal firearms license (FFL). Information on how to become an FFL is available at: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html. Also, ATF does not have jurisdiction over State laws. You should also contact your local law enforcement agency and/or State Attorney General to inquire about local or State requirements that may apply to firearms manufactured for personal use. A listing of the State Attorney general's offices is available online at www.naag.org. We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at http://www.atf.gov/field. Regards, Firearms Industry Programs Branch, ATF - Show quoted text - hopefully this helps as well. or maybe the point has been beaten to death. whatever... |
#83
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I can make a silencer?! Damn that's awesome. So, in a free state, you just apply for the stamp, build it, and you're good to go?.....
__________________
PRO PELLE CUTEM "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever"- Thomas Jefferson, 1785 Quote:
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#84
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Yep. But for a couple hundred dollars for a proffessionally designed and built one, it's normally better to purchase one.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#85
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What a cool project that would be though. If it works, you have a supressor for $200+materials and you are a bona fide badass!
__________________
PRO PELLE CUTEM "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever"- Thomas Jefferson, 1785 Quote:
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#86
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I have seen minimum and maximum lengths for homebuilt pistols (both overall and barrel lengths) talked about in several threads, but I can’t find them now.
Does anyone have this information handy? |
#87
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12133(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled. maximum length, otherwise it might not be considered a pistol anymore, 12001. (a)(1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#88
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I didn't get useful answers in my other post, so I'll try here.
I don't plan to sell a home-built pistol, but I expect a child to inherit it sometime. Presumably the heir would need to register it, so it would need a serial number. Would my initials be a sufficient identifier for the manufacturer or would I need to engrave my last name? |
#90
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Thats what I was told a while back, when I was doing my first build.
As long as you have something to identify it as yours. Some guys put initials, DL # (that one I am dead against) and other markings. Myself, I would just put the last four of my Social Security #. And that's what I plan on doing with my next build. What a better way to say it's mine with something that personal...
__________________
~~ Happiness is a warm gun!! ~~ |
#92
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answered in the other thread where you posted the same question.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#93
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Related to this topic, how would I go about stamping my own serial number into an AK flat before bending/welding/torching/coating? I know Harbor Freight carries letter punches, but I'm not sure if they're rated for this type of steel. I'd rather punch the number for that "professional look" rather than hand-engraving with a dremel.
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#94
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I bought the punches I used from michaels. 1/16 for location and first part of serial number as well as city and state, and 1/4" for all actual numbers. I got a numbers matching parts kit, so I used the four digit serial number it had with my initials. Now everything should match and be pretty easy to id. It looks alright, and I can send you a picture if you want.
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Turning wrenches and melting metal, to finance my firearms. |
#95
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I got some 1/8" punches from Utopia Tools {San Clemente}
They do a lot of the gun shows and have a LOT of tables. The punches were inexpensive and are holding up really well. They are the ones in a red plastic box.
__________________
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms,it will be because we destroyed ourselves" -Abraham Lincoln,a summation of a speech given at the Lyceum in 1838 ======================================= "Revolution against tyranny is the most sacred of duties" - Benjamin Franklin -1775 ======================================= |
#96
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can you guys point or show me the laws on manufacturing a pistol frame (like 1911) for my own use ???
or is home made firearms only good for long guns ??? thing is I can use a cnc mil to fabricate my own 1911 and 2011 frames and since we cannot buy them new here ( unless ppt) I was trying to see if its possible and legal. To machine a frame myself... Last edited by RippSpeed; 05-24-2012 at 8:47 AM.. |
#97
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Laws don't tell you what you CAN do, they tell you what you CANNOT do. Unless expressly prohibited by law, it is still our god given right to do what we want to. (for now) Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#98
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Gene, how do these rules affect a home-MODIFIED gun?
I'm right now building the pieces needed to make major changes to my Ruger New Vaquero. Right now it's a 357Magnum, marked as such with the factory SN. When the conversion is done it will be permanently changed to a 9mmPara, with a replacement cylinder and a true .355 barrel. (Plus magazine feeding and gas ejection of empties.) My understanding is that any permanent caliber change of this nature would require a professional gunsmith to have a handgun manufacturer's licence and re-mark the gun in question at least as to caliber, and a lot of these guys like Gary Reeder also put a new serial number on. At that point the gun is legally no longer a "Ruger", it's a "Gary Reeder" somethingorother. I also recall that a bunch of gunsmiths doing caliber conversions were busted by ATF some years back, in a sort of sweep. So...am I going to end up in a position where I need to at a minimum scratch out "357" and put in "9mm Para"? |
#99
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The way I'm reading it, federal law says that ALL firearms shall have a serial number if manufactured after 1968. If the weapon is a manufactured at home type, the ATF will issue a serial number for it but you have to apply for it. I am an FFL holder and questioned an ATF field agent about this.
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#100
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#102
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Please post the law and where you are getting your information.
I believe you are reading about what is required for "manufactures" with FFL's??? Quote:
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#103
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The CGA requirement for markings does not apply to non-licensees. Quote:
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__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#104
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I'll dig out the Fed regs and post. You are manufacturing a firearm regardless where you build it. You aren't required to pay excise tax unless you build 51 weapons per year.
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#105
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ATF F 1 (5320.1) |
#106
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I am familiar with the Form 1 app. That is to request permission to make a title II firearm like an AOW, SBS, SBR, or MG. And you have to pay $200 when you submit that form.. It is not for title I firearms. We do not have to pay to make title I firearms.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#107
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The Form 1 was just the 1st one I found. Haven't looked at it in depth, couldn't open it to read it. I just moved back to Bakersfield from Susanville. All of my regs are still packed. I got my info from the Codified regulations that ATF gave me. I'll dig it all out and post. There are so many what I believe are grey areas. One section will say "X" and then 2 pages over it contradicts what "X" just said.
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#108
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__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#109
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#110
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You are reading it wrong. Homebuilt firearms are not being built to sell or otherwise transfer. So, they do not require ANd or manufacturer's markings unless they are transferred.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#111
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I looked and looked but for the life of me can't find what I had remembered reading. It was over a year ago so I guess it could've been something under NFA regs and not the GCA of 1968.
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#114
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its not a rifle until it has a shoulder stock on it (definition of a rifle requires that it be designed to be fired from the shoulder).
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#115
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Correct but basically so is a shotgun . That didn't stop them here from banning Taurus Judges as "short barreled shotguns"
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#116
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#117
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#118
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well, that's exactly what I said, you have to do it as a single shot. Just wondering if people are even aware of a barrel length requirement when it comes to single shots, unless I'm wrong about it. Most of the time, when we discuss single shot here, it's about AR pistols, and generally, the barrels on AR pistols are what 7" to 10.5" inches? So this question doesn't come up very often.
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#119
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I'm wondering out loud here but why would someone want to build a single shot 1911?(besides the because I can answer). Why not work with a smith/ffl and get a frame, do the single shot conversion then DROS it out a a single shot. After that, you can do as you please.
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#120
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I also believe a single shot pistol must also be 10 1/2 inches over all.
Quote " why would someone want to build a single shot 1911?" Because there is no law saying you can't convert it after you build it as a single shot. |
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