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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#42
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P.S. I didnt Sweden had the mass shooting, that was Norway.
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Vote for pro-gun candidates, or lose your rights, and the rights of future generations. That's it. The end. "No one said life would be easy". |
#43
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There's an analogy that's been posted on this site, that making gun laws stricter to reduce crime is like trying to stop people from speeding through a 25mph zone at 70 mph by lowering the speed limit to 15 mph. All it does is make life difficult for law abiding citizens. Last edited by steve91104; 11-08-2012 at 1:43 PM.. |
#45
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If they abandon gun registration and restriction, it's added to the list of locations I might consider moving to.
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NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#47
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on a more serious note, JOHN LOTT gave a talk about his book MORE GUNS LESS CRIMES at my former work: http://www.cbe.csueastbay.edu/econ/w..._10_13_sc.html its a "streaming" video.
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leo d. Last edited by ldivinag; 11-09-2012 at 6:36 AM.. |
#48
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We've had gun control for decades, not years, but decades and it has shown itself to be a total failure for every act of illegal and criminal gun play. Chew on that.
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Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. __________________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! |
#51
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I love this: Gun control DOES NOT reduce crime, and sites some cases where a shooter was subdued: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH7tR...eature=related Last edited by the86d; 11-09-2012 at 7:57 AM.. |
#52
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#53
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In the US we have a much larger minority population than Canada and it can be argued that this accounts for much if not all the difference in homicide rates. I have read (Lott I think but this would need to be verified) that if you take the states that that border Canada that those states will have a demographic profile that is almost identical to Canada. If you compare homicide rates for these boarder states to Canada they are actually slightly lower than Canada but I don't think the difference is statistically significant. If the demographically adjusted homicide rate in the US is basically the same as in Canada with it's much stricter gun laws then perhaps this shows that these gun laws do not have a significant impact on homicide rates. I should add that most of the states that boarder Canada are more or less "free" states that have less restrictive gun laws. IE. Montana, Washington, Idaho, N Dak. and so on with a few exceptions like New York. As an aside the high homicide rate committed by black males is a very sad thing. But it points to how the anti's ignore a very real issue when they go after guns but totally discount that some thing is very wrong in the black community. If we instead focused on that issue and tried to correct the under laying problems instead of focusing on gun control we might actually be able to make real progress on dealing with our countries violence issue. |
#55
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logic, facts, figures and stastics have little affect on legislators...emotion is what drives the passage of almost any gun related legislation.
IMO... "NO" is the answer...
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NRA life member, US Army Veteran i am a legend in my own mind... we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical... "The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..." |
#56
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At least strict gun laws have kept the US government from running guns to drug cartels. Oh, wait...
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"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?" -Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice "Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety. I like my guns like the left likes their voters-"undocumented". |
#59
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Getting iced!
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Yay! To OP: In order to give your argument some historical grounding so that it is not merely a "current events" paper that fails to show patterns over decades, be sure to cite these: Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control by Gary Kleck and Don B. Kates (Nov 2001) The Great American Gun Debate by Don B. Kates, Gary Kleck, James R. Boen and John K. Lattimer (1997) Firearms and Violence: Issues of Public Policy (Pacific Studies in Public Policy) by Don B. Kates (Jun 1983) Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out by Don B. Kates (Feb 1979) and possibly even this, to show that harsh, nationwide prohibitions in a "gun free paradise" have not made it a paradise at all but the opposite: Guns and Violence: The English Experience by Joyce Lee Malcolm
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"The Religion of Peace": Islam: What the West Needs to Know. America is Not a Democracy ". . . all [historical] experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms [of governmental abuses and usurpations] to which they are accustomed." Decl. of Indep., July 4, 1776 NRA Benefactor/Life Member; Lifer: CRPA, GOA, |
#61
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Some people just have the will to commit crime. And those people will exist until the end of time. Having said that, then there are those that have no problem murdering another person to get what they want. Firearms are simply one means that they use to do that. What the anti-gun extremists don't get is that banning firearms isn't going to change that.
Anti-gun zealots will attempt some form of logic by suggesting that while people will murder, banning guns will reduce their murderous rampage to just a few individuals if all they have are knives or machetes in which to kill their victims. Apparently they are unaware that people have gone on rampages with cars and just ran people over to commit mass murder. And of course there are the home made WMDs, aka IEDs, that people have manufactured. If a person wants to commit mass murder, they will find a way, but liberals are too narrow minded to get that. |
#62
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probably lead to fewer overall deaths
The actual violent crime rate would go up like the United Kingdom though.
Take a look at Jamaica. Firearms for the commoner are verboten and their drug gang fueled murder rate is ten times higher than the United States. |
#63
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The main thing that seems to go down as a trend when gun control is enacted (looking at europe and austrailia) is that GUN suicides go down, not necessarily suicides as a whole. At least this is based on the stats I found when googling.
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#64
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In theory, this is the problem "strict scrutiny" is supposed to solve.
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#65
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1. If people don't have guns, there can be no gun crime! 2. If guns are less easily available, there will be less gun crime! 3. If people don't have guns that easily kill lots of people, they can't easily kill lots of people! 4. Criminals can get guns legally! This needs to stop! Ok, so to break those down completely, because these things are what liberals actually believe: 1. A gun free-utopia cannot exist. If people don't have guns, there can be no gun crime - you're completely right - but that can never exist in the United States, or, for that matter, anywhere in the world. There's always a way to get a gun, legally or illegally. 2. If guns are less easily available, then the ones that criminals always have, and all of the ones available on the black market, are still just as easily available to criminals. The fact is, criminals already have the guns they need, and if they don't, they can steal them from someone's house. Burglars are the main reason that deadly guns end up on the black market. 3. "Assault weapons" are rarely used in crime. More importantly, the guns doing the most damage are the small handguns that are all over any big city street. You can't conceal an AK-47, nor can you easily find a machine gun for sale. More importantly, even if you took all of the "assault weapons" off of the streets, there's still criminals out there with them. If someone really wants to murder lots of people, they'll find a way. Heck, even when guns are effectively removed from the streets, people still find a way. In China, people go on mass knife/hatchet murder sprees. Gun control, the likes of which to work in America, would have had to have been controlled for about 100 years already. Anyway, 4. Criminals can get guns legally? Are you kidding me? Many crimes have temporary bans on gun ownership - like 5-10 years - and any felony, or any domestic violence incident, or any restraining order against you immediately takes your gun rights away. Until you've proven that there's a reason why your rights from the bill of rights need to be taken away for the good of society, and until that's been proven in court, then you have them - that's all there is to it. Here's the thing. Any criminal who wants a gun, can get one. If we ban guns? Well, I made a gun in my garage, using under $400 worth of tooling, under $500 worth of parts, with NO experience. I used a block of plastic - Delrin - and AR parts that I bought online. It was legal for me to do so, which is why I did it, but even if it wasn't legal for me to do so, I still could have done it. It wasn't even particularly hard to build a single shot pistol that shoots rifle rounds. If I can build a gun in my garage easily - and I have - then criminals can too. This means that criminals will ALWAYS BE ARMED. If criminals will always be armed, why would you take away my rights, provided to me in the bill of rights, to make sure that I can defend myself against criminals? If I'm unarmed, and a criminal with a gun picks a fight with me, they will win. There's no maybe. I will walk away losing what they want me to lose... Or I won't walk away at all. That's not good enough. I'll keep my rights. I've proven I can build a gun in my garage. If you ban guns, I'll still have them, just like anyone who would want to hurt me.
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Hunting is a loophole in the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights. There is no privilege to keep and bear arms. Arms are for killing people. All other uses of an arm are illegitimate uses. |
#66
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#67
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A fundamental problem throughout the country on many different issues. We are a society Hell bent on addressing the "results" of social issues, but not interested in addressing the causes. "Too much work" probably, and an all too common feeling of "not my responsibility." A.W.D.
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#69
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thanks guys for the input
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WTB: Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and TRP with half light rail. |
#71
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In the Greater Johannesburg area in South Africa there are 6 million people, about the same population as the Greater Bay Area. I don't know how many murders there are per year in the GBA, less than 750 I'd think. In Jo-berg there are 5000. Because handguns are very difficult to acquire,,, the preferred tool of murder is the machete.
Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather take two rounds to center mass rather than two dozen hacks to everywhere. |
#73
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It's always good to have some facts. This link takes us to the history of California's crime rate between 1960 and 2011:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm I got my first gun in 1961. Instructive for intrepid data miners... CDFingers Last edited by CDFingers; 12-06-2012 at 4:37 AM.. Reason: added words of happiness |
#74
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See if gun control is working in Mexico.
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It doesn't matter how scary, ugly, uncomfortable, or inconvenient self defense can be. Like it or not, you will never, ever be relieved of your duty and responsibility to defend your life, your family, your country and your freedom. How much ammo do I need? Enough to last me the rest of my life, and then lot more for later. The government does not come knocking at your door. It comes knocking down your door. |
#75
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Didn't read all the posts so sorry if someone already stated this.
I think you are arguing from the wrong angle. 1. You shouldn't argue that "gun control doesn't work." The problem, is that in some cases it does work, and the other side of the argument will point out countries that do ok with strict gun control. In a debate, you've just been defeated on that point IMO. Also, you can't PROVE your argument, only make a conjecture. 2. You should be arguing that "more guns don't = more crime." With this approach you can point out all the states and counties that do issue LTC. Then you can show crime stats and show that there has never been an increase in gun crime and violence after the onset of LTC policies. You can also point to other countries like Switzerland where all men are members of the militia and keep FULL AUTO rifles in there HOME. What's there crime rate look like compared to Great Britain? Then you can move on to point out how some countries have enacted stricter gun laws and crime/murder rates rose. In this case, it's easier to concede that yes indeed sometimes gun bans work, but just as often they don't. On the other hand, allowing lawfull citizens access to firearms has never increased crime rates. In either case, be prepared for the counter arguments. They are usually the same, but all of these can be proven not to be true with some facts. Here's a couple links that might help: http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...6_1_screen.pdf Death by guns vs cars @ 1:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8Y...ayer_embedded#! http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/0...cond-Amendment Be smart, make sure that your argument can't be defeated. Don't ever make an argument that can be countered with facts, then you just look like them. That's a mistake a lot of people make, I even see it a lot on the forum. People make the wrong argument, or approach from the wrong angle and get backed into a corner.
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Last edited by stingray4540; 12-07-2012 at 2:02 AM.. |
#76
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Human violence.
It matters not the tool of violence, it matters the tool of justice, the gun. The gun is the equalizer. It affords the 5'1" person the stature of a 7'2" adult. It is and always will be an equalizer. God made man, Samuel Colt made them equal. How could any liberal want anything less.
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"one test is worth a thousand opinions". Last edited by MOA1; 12-07-2012 at 2:37 AM.. |
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#78
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#79
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
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