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  #1  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:46 PM
gh429 gh429 is offline
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Default Registering Glock 21 Gen 4 (SSE) with Micro Roni kit as AW?

Anyone know if I can register a Glock 21 gen 4 (.45 full size that's the right model right) with a micro-roni kit as an assault weapon?

The Glock 21 started life as an SSE pistol. Because of this it could have been configured at birth with a Micro-roni kit and bullet button? This assume Micro-Roni does not employ a stock making it an SBR, only a "brace"?

Is this kosher to register as an AW?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:09 PM
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So far the micro Roni stab doesn’t seem to be illegal in California so I’m not sure what there is to register.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:37 PM
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How is it Illegal in California if you never change it from a pistol (arm brace only)

Once a pistol always a pistol unless you convert it to a rifle.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:43 PM
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Pistol grip, detachable mag =AW, had to have bullet button. Not my cup of tea.
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:22 AM
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This will be interesting to see the results of this. I mean whats the intent?
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Old 11-14-2017, 6:24 AM
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Old 11-14-2017, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Pistol grip, detachable mag =AW, had to have bullet button. Not my cup of tea.
A stock Glock has a pistol grip and detachable mag and isn't an assault weapon though. What am I missing here?
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2017, 10:23 AM
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Hypothetically speaking doesn't the Glock Gen 4 come from the same place as the AR15 pistols - SSE exemption?

The subsequent conversion of said pistol to a bullet-button pistol would have been legal no? Now of course this configuration has been made illegal by bullet button legislation so theoretically can be registered?

That's my thinking but I'm certainly not an expert..
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:35 PM
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No, it's a handgun.

The problem is the possible interpretation of a "barrel shroud".
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2017, 1:45 PM
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Curious how SSE matters at all related to AW & SBR issues?

Sure, put a 16+" barrel on it (if it will cycle) first - and if you can find one.

I'd ask you to show me a pic of the Roni stock you say you have,
but I don't want to prompt you into possibly incriminating yourself.

... because every Roni stock I've seen IIRC has a buttstock on it.

Pistols can't have buttstocks otherwise they're illegal CA SBRs.

Because of constructive possession risk for SBRs, you really shouldn't
own a Roni kit with a matching Glock - unless you have at least a long
16+" barrel that fits.

[Let's not even get into the 'arm brace' BS because those'll be seen as
stocks too in a CA court, and I'm getting tired of arguing with idiots on
this matter, as ATF letters have little to do with CA courts and separate
CA laws.]
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2017, 1:56 PM
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Common its only Tuesday. Another thread "can I reg my pistol as AW".
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2017, 3:02 PM
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Barrel shroud= No Go

Going from Pistol->Rifle->Pistol is a No Go in California. Okay on Federal level, illegal in CA. So the 16” barrel idea is not going to help.

Your answer is in the handgun flow chart at the top of the page
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:37 PM
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A semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines and has a "second handgrip" or a "shroud" is an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)&(C)]

On the Roni kit, the slanted portion in front of the trigger guard is considered a "second handgrip" [11 CCR 5471(gg)] and the portion of the kit that surrounds the pistol's barrel can be considered a "shroud" [11 CCR 5471(jj)].

In order to be CA legal, the semi-auto pistol installed in the Roni kit must utilize a fixed 10 or less round magazine.
^Magazine needs to be contained in the firearm and can not be removed from without disassembling the firearm's action or the magazine needs to be permanently attached to the firearm's magazine well.

If a semi-auto pistol with a "bullet button" style magazine lock installed in the Roni kit was owned before 2017, then it can be registered as an assault weapon.
^The "bullet button" style magazine lock needs to be kept on the RAW, in order to remain legal.

Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, an arm stablizing brace can be viewed as a stock.
Determination is dependent upon any LEO that sees it and any DA's Office that wants to prosecute it as a SBR/SBS.
RAW are not exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.




Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(gg) “Second handgrip” means a grip that allows the shooter to grip the pistol with their non-trigger hand. The second hand grip often has a grip texture to assist the shooter in weapon control.
(jj) “Shroud” means a heat shield that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the shooter to fire the weapon with one hand and grasp the firearm over the barrel with the other hand without burning the shooter's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is not a shroud.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-14-2017 at 5:46 PM..
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMAN View Post
How is it Illegal in California if you never change it from a pistol (arm brace only)

Once a pistol always a pistol unless you convert it to a rifle.
Under CA laws...

A handgun can also be classified as a SBR/SBS. [PC 16640(b)]

Installing an arm brace onto a handgun can be determined to be redesiging the firearm to shoot from the shoulder, which would make it a rifle [PC 17090] and if the resulting firearm has a barrel length of less than 16" or an overall length of less than 26", then it is considered a SBR [PC 17170].




Penal Code 16640
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “handgun” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

Penal Code 17090
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16650, 16660, 16870, and 17170, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Article 2 (commencing with Section 30300) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Penal Code 17170
As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post


A semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines and has a "second handgrip" or a "shroud" is an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)&(C)]

On the Roni kit, the slanted portion in front of the trigger guard is considered a "second handgrip" [11 CCR 5471(gg)] and the portion of the kit that surrounds the pistol's barrel can be considered a "shroud" [11 CCR 5471(jj)].

In order to be CA legal, the semi-auto pistol installed in the Roni kit must utilize a fixed 10 or less round magazine.
^Magazine needs to be contained in the firearm and can not be removed from without disassembling the firearm's action or the magazine needs to be permanently attached to the firearm's magazine well.

If a semi-auto pistol with a "bullet button" style magazine lock installed in the Roni kit was owned before 2017, then it can be registered as an assault weapon.
^The "bullet button" style magazine lock needs to be kept on the RAW, in order to remain legal.

Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, an arm stablizing brace can be viewed as a stock.
Determination is dependent upon any LEO that sees it and any DA's Office that wants to prosecute it as a SBR/SBS.
RAW are not exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.




Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(gg) “Second handgrip” means a grip that allows the shooter to grip the pistol with their non-trigger hand. The second hand grip often has a grip texture to assist the shooter in weapon control.
(jj) “Shroud” means a heat shield that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the shooter to fire the weapon with one hand and grasp the firearm over the barrel with the other hand without burning the shooter's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is not a shroud.
One thing is sure whether legal or not in Ca, that thing is awesome!
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:06 PM
gh429 gh429 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Curious how SSE matters at all related to AW & SBR issues?

Sure, put a 16+" barrel on it (if it will cycle) first - and if you can find one.

I'd ask you to show me a pic of the Roni stock you say you have,
but I don't want to prompt you into possibly incriminating yourself.

... because every Roni stock I've seen IIRC has a buttstock on it.

Pistols can't have buttstocks otherwise they're illegal CA SBRs.

Because of constructive possession risk for SBRs, you really shouldn't
own a Roni kit with a matching Glock - unless you have at least a long
16+" barrel that fits.

[Let's not even get into the 'arm brace' BS because those'll be seen as
stocks too in a CA court, and I'm getting tired of arguing with idiots on
this matter, as ATF letters have little to do with CA courts and separate
CA laws.]
Hi Bill - thanks for your response!

It was my understanding that AR15 Pistols began life the same way. As an SSE Pistol with barrel shroud, pistol grip, magazine outside of grip, and forward grip - but made legal (pre-2017) because of a bullet button?

What is the difference between an SSE glock 21 versus an AR15 pistol assuming the user added all the evil features while configured with a bullet button? [buttstock aside, lets assume no buttstock]

^Not trying to be argumentative, honestly want to know.

TIA!
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