|
California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#201
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Your position is crystal clear because you have said it again and again and again. There is nothing incomprehensible about what you say. I'm just not sure why you keep saying it because so far no one in this forum has agreed with you. People on this forum are touchy about the police illegally confiscating law-abiding people's guns. I don't think you are going to change any minds about that. And you never answered my question.
__________________
Lucy at www.mesatactical.com |
#202
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Try a search on YouTube.com using the word "fail" and get back to us on your standard for "the stupidest thing [you've] ever heard of". Hyperbole, much?
__________________
"Everyone must determine for themselves what level of tyranny they are willing to tolerate. I let my CA residency expire in 2015." |
#203
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The standard you suggest leads to an officer doing anything and the SCOTUS has commented on this: But "good faith on the part of the arresting officers is not enough." Henry v. United States, 361 U. S. 98, 361 U. S. 102. If subjective good faith alone were the test, the protections of the Fourth Amendment would evaporate, and the people would be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects," only in the discretion of the police. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So there is never any violence on Halloween? We have a right to bear arms for protection because we don’t know when we might need it. Respectful?!?!?! Mostly?!!? You made a veiled reference to Nazi’s in this thread at people who don’t agree with you. Sorry but you don’t get to play the victim and try to claim people are somehow anti-LEO because they don’t agree with you. You want to have a reasonable debate, cut down on the hyperbole or all you are going to getare people who are anti-LEO and it will be because of your actions. |
#205
|
|||
|
|||
Ohhhhh the troll card........Best thrown down when you got nothing worthwhile to say. At least the other guys do a pretty good job of articulating why they thought I was AFU.....I don't agree with them, but hey, it is what it is. What are you gonna do next, put me on ignore? Last edited by greg36f; 11-09-2012 at 2:39 PM.. |
#206
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I am going to take advice given to me earlier and just go away for now......I made a point probably a few times to many and we are just running in circles. I do want to address the bolded though. I have never at any time compared anyone on Cal Guns of being a Nazi. I was simply making a point (really out of the context of this thread) about how sometimes groups or individuals need "an enemy" to rally against and how LEO's seem too often fit the bill here on Cal Guns. I then went on to say how I thought that that was not the case and that LEO’s were in fact not the enemy and were in fact a large part of Cal Guns. I made the point because in the 3 years that I have been posting here, I have seen the Cal Guns / LEO relationship go downhill. I think that that is a shame. |
#207
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
|
#208
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
We were considered rodent control by local farmers. But if MR. Levi or any of the other farmers saw you doing anything against the safety rules you were in for a harsh scolding and a call to your father; at the very least. Ten years later I could walk down the sidewalk or across a parking lot in Fresno on my way to a gun shop with a rifle over my shoulder and a pistol on my belt and if any one looked at you funny you just figured they weren’t from around here. People are slowly being trained to be terrified of firearms. I actually think that folks who fear other people being armed are projecting their own self doubt. Maybe they should examine whether or not they trust themselves to be armed in public. GCA-68 killed the service station and grocery store ammo. The alienation of our police means a kid would be face down on the pavement within three blocks. You have to lock your pistol in a box to take it anywhere and it will be the same for your rifle soon. That is only a few feet of the slippery slope we talk about. And this is all OK with you?
__________________
May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
|
#209
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. I don’t see common sense anywhere in the text of the Fourth Amendment, as justification for the seizure of property...
__________________
|
#210
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
|
#211
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
"Reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" are used in the context of justification for a detaiment or search prior to an arrest. No one has contested his temporary detainment to check if the firearm was loaded. Once tit was determined to not be loaded, he should have been permitted to go on his way with his property (firearm). In this instance there was no arrest, as no laws were broken. This is strictly a siezure of lawfully posessed property, regardless how foolish the individual was in putting himself in that position.
__________________
|
#212
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If we are to deal with this fear, the law has to change first, such that buying a firearm is merely a matter of going to the store and carrying it in public is either allowed without a permit or getting the permit is easy, painless, and fast. Until that time, people who are unarmed will always fear those who are armed, and understandably so: they're at a disadvantage against people they know nothing about. The only reason that fear makes them anti-gun is that the law itself already makes their more reasonable and responsible option, arming themselves, expensive and painful.
__________________
The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#213
|
|||
|
|||
Meplat1 ive only heard my dag talk about those days. Riding a horse through the orange groves in riverside at his aunts house in the 1950's/1960's as a kid shooting jackrabbits and rodents with a .22 lever action. So hard to believe that was all lost in a generation. The baby boomers have been awful with their legal preferences.
|
#215
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I kind of like it in some way because there is at least one company I will never buy their products based on their posts here. I also tell my coworkers not to buy them and why. It is kind of funny because he slaps law enforcement as one of his big buyers all over his website. Essenitally using LE as a marketing tool. I guess he will take our money on his website but trash us on this one. At least we know who we can't count on. |
#216
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Wouldn't you agree that such unconstitutional acts by law enforcement are unacceptable, give good cops a bad name, and should be addressed through legal channels and training (to make sure it doesn't happen again)? Would you also agree that, if the officer(s) did unconstitutionally seize property, they should be formally disciplined? -Brandon
__________________
Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#217
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I have come to terms with it in regards to this and any other site. If you or anyone else can't handle what I say then run to the mods or owner and get me banned. I will also will not fight each piece of FUD about LE because I just don't have the time to do it. I would need a couple of hours a day for this subforum alone. It is hard sometimes because the FUD is so retarded. |
#218
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
No need to get all puckered up over a discussion over what went wrong with this scenario, because not all peace officers who have posted on this thread feel like they are being impugned by the comments about APD's error.
__________________
Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#219
|
||||
|
||||
This thread is about what was likely an unconstitutional seizure of property when law enforcement - the chief - knew there were no laws being broken. See:
Quote:
It seems that no matter what we advocates for liberty and constitutionally-appropriate law enforcement say here, there will be both cops who paint us all with a broad brush... Let me clarify something: I don't care how you do your job as long as you remember that your first oath is to the People and their charter and act accordingly. The subject officers failed that test, and now they are going to live with the consequences of it. Tell me, why aren't the officers' association(s) the first ones on our side here? Shouldn't their interests in departments having Constitutionally-sound enforcement policies and training programs be a first priority? Nope, it's crickets, because everyone takes care of #1. It's human nature. Our #1 happens to be the Constitution. Choices, choices. -Brandon Quote:
__________________
Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#220
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Some people can't help but read more into it, and insert their asinine comments over and over again just to hear (read) themselves talk. I for one think it's time for the Head Janitor to come in here and tidy up all the non-relevant BS in here. Those that want to continue on these tangents should take it to "Off Topic", because that's exactly what it is. |
#221
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#222
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Why is it a cop who does something that a "civilian" would get arrested and sent to jail for whether or not he knew it was illegal gets away with an illegal action because he didn't know it was illegal or because he was just following "procedure"? Why am I held to a higher standard than you are when it comes to the law? Here's a yes or no question for you. If a non-leo had taken this guy's rifle and not given it back, would you arrest that person? And if you would, why wouldn't you arrest the cop for the same thing? Do you think it might be possible that the attitude that a cop should get a pass for illegal behavior because he can't be expected to know the law has something to do with the negativity that gets directed towards police officers? |
#223
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I guess I am a radical then, I obey the law and I expect law enforcement to do the same. Do I think the guy that had his rifle seized is foolish, yes I do. I generally support law enforcement too. However, when law enforcement crosses that like where they no longer respect the bill of rights, I have a problem with that....
__________________
|
#224
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
When GCA-68 was passed I was 21 and very aware and active in fighting it. But at the risk of offending some of our younger members; most 21 year olds don’t know squat. And much of what they do know is wrong. We have many young people on this forum who have their heads screwed on straight, but overall the population under 30 has much less ability and opportunity to impinge upon their society as those in their forties, fifties, and sixties, simply because of the flow of the stages of life. Middle aged people have more disposable income, and are in positions of greater influence in business and government. The WWII generation was in charge while most of the onerous gun control was being passed. Then they turned the helm over to the selfish, irresponsible, spoiled brats that they raised and we now call boomers!
__________________
May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
Last edited by Meplat1; 11-10-2012 at 6:06 PM.. |
#225
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#226
|
||||
|
||||
Bull ~ & ~ S#!t
__________________
WTB: S&W 617 4" 10 shot Pre-Lock |
#227
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union...70812799700206 Quote:
|
#228
|
||||
|
||||
Wonder how much of the "AR-15 Seized by Police for "Public Safety" reasons" thread still exists?
Since this could be another whooping on a department courtesy of Calguns, and local for me, I'm interested in the outcome. Sifting through pages of.........not sure what word I should use...is frustrating |
#229
|
|||
|
|||
I love how some LEO want to justify this thread as "bashing LEO". It shows the trueth that there is a "Blue Code" we civilians need to worry about. Any and all LEO should look at this situation and oppose the chef..period, end of story.
We post a video of two 250lb officers beating the crap out of a 95lb spoiled brat 15 year old girl and its "LEO bashing"...No its not. Every single person no matter what their career is should be saying, "WTF are those two IDIOTS doing?" |
#231
|
||||
|
||||
Officer Safety.
__________________
May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
|
#232
|
|||
|
|||
As a Police Officer one should approach the law objectively to what has been defined by the courts. You won't agree with a lot of the BS but that was written and how it's been defined through the courts.
Unfortunately, this places a heavy burden on the shoulder of Police who might follow the same police chief statistic of 66% believing in the right to carry. The emphasis needs to be placed on the system most notably the courts who impose their "opinions" on the people regardless of historically proven context. Do you want an agency to have the power to pick and chose what is morally acceptable when they're sole purpose is to up hold the law created by the people? Let's not forget that slavery, native Americans, the Japanese, and witch hunts, were once accepted by a majority of the population and enacted by the system. Yes, things have changed but would you want the Police to be the ultimate political authority and the singular enforcer? I personally know a lot of officers who are and will forever be incompetent and only hold an AA with Academy accounting for a majority of units. A lot doesn't mean a majority but enough create a negative perception that the police are the problem. WE the people should be targeting the politicians, lawyers, and judges who WRITE and ENACT the laws which oppress our rights. They aren't the problem we're being faced with... they're simply a product of the system. Last edited by FoxTrot87; 11-11-2012 at 1:46 PM.. Reason: grammar |
#233
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
How would you react if a civilian took a cops side arm because they were afraid? I'm sure that you would want them in prison or more likely shot dead. Unless there was an actual reason to take the guys AR, then the cop is guilty of theft. |
#234
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Perhaps better training on awareness that their experiences are impairing their judgment to think objectively. Imagine issuing arrests everyday to a certain demographic, when guilty had the same excuses, etc etc. This requires a very high level of interpersonal thinking which could also raise other problems. just 2cents... I just like asking questions or raising concerns to brainstorm possible solutions |
#235
|
||||
|
||||
This could be read a few different ways, but at this time, the PD is closing off some public disclosure of this...uh...incident...?
http://publicdocumentdistributors.co...read.php?t=965 I've uploaded their responses in PDF file which you can open or download |
#236
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#237
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#238
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
ETA: Said differently, I'm sure everyone can read between the lines, but in case a few more data points are required, here is the statement of intent from my request for records to Arcata PD: Quote:
__________________
Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. Last edited by wildhawker; 11-15-2012 at 5:31 PM.. |
#239
|
||||
|
||||
Disclosure of public records is not going to prevent you from doing your job. No offense sir, but I'm not even sure what your job actually is. Mine is advocacy, research, education, and outreach. Sometimes, aid in one form or another. I don't know the person at the center of this, and I'm not trying to help him personally. Our interest is bringing the information to the public in this case, for present and future consideration. But that's almost a moot point for the moment anyway, since the research has been blocked.
|
#240
|
|||
|
|||
You've been here since 2008....
You should have confidence that when Brandon says he's on something.... He means it. He can do a lot more for this particular individual along with ALL OF OUR gun rights than you have probably done in your entire life. Not an attack, just saying you should research the person you're doubting.... Please keep us updated Brandon. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|