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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 01-14-2018, 2:21 PM
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I read this thread wrong.
I thought it was a thread about what you are willing to fight for. I see now it is more a thread about what are you willing to fight against.
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  #162  
Old 01-14-2018, 2:51 PM
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I read this thread wrong.
I thought it was a thread about what you are willing to fight for. I see now it is more a thread about what are you willing to fight against.
As the Thread OP i would say its a little of both. I started this to see where folks stood and what would or has pushed them to there limits and take a stand against any further loss of 2a gun rights.
As I read through and digest all the comments I see it as not a simple answer as sometimes circumstances can change and that line can move. Mostly I wanted to stimulate a dialogue and hopefully cause those on the fence to take a serious look around and decide for themselves just how important it is to stand up and fight back. Yes its about Freedom and Liberty

I also will not judge the choices others make and if it means leaving for greener pastures so be it that's your line. For others some by choice and some do to circumstances will choose to say and keep up the fight as best we can. I wish everyone would stay and fight but that's not for me choose.
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  #163  
Old 01-14-2018, 4:30 PM
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I was watching Bullitt last night and thinking how much San Francisco has changed over the last 50 plus years. It's one of the great tragedies of "progress" in California. It will always be blessed with a beautiful physical setting and a mild climate, but it has become one of the least desirable places to live in the US IMHO.
I agree SF is a beautiful city has so much history and great food. progressives destroyed a once wonderful city that has now taken over the entire state as every statewide elected office is occupied by someone from guess where? the bay area. their arrogance is disgusting and should be treated with prejudice and destroyed. they are not tolerant only tolerant if you agree with them.

they have destroyed my home state period. they can try and blame DC for it but that is f***** BS. they did it period.
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  #164  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:21 PM
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that's not horrible to say it's the truth. personally i can't wait for this state to fail and watch the liberals heads here explode. these people here are so ignorant that socialism will fail they can't even bother to see Venezuela as a prime example as to where this state is heading.
.
The only problem is the liberal heads won't explode. The worst of the libtards here have the money to flee to other, free states and they'll bring their crappy ideas with them. Then the cycle starts over again. Personally, I'll be dead and gone before they destroy where I'm heading but I'm sure it will happen.
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  #165  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wannabefree View Post
Mostly I wanted to stimulate a dialogue and hopefully cause those on the fence to take a serious look around and decide for themselves just how important it is to stand up and fight back. Yes its about Freedom and Liberty

I also will not judge the choices others make and if it means leaving for greener pastures so be it that's your line. For others some by choice and some do to circumstances will choose to say and keep up the fight as best we can. I wish everyone would stay and fight but that's not for me choose.
While it would be nice in the abstract if everyone would stay and fight, I don't see how it would make any difference to the end result. But if it won't make any difference to the end result, then one can hardly fault someone for deciding to leave instead of stay and fight.

So: if someone is staying anyway for whatever reasons, then they most certainly should fight if they have any ability and inclination to do so. But at this point, I'd say that fighting really means some combination of planting the seeds of doubt into others who aren't on our side, or providing support for such efforts, or raising a token resistance against further encroachments (so that, at least, the opposition can't say that there aren't any objections to their machinations), etc. Lawsuits can be worth bringing, but need to be brought under the assumption that they will be lost, which means bringing them in such a way that the precedent which is built under the conditions of a loss is minimally damaging to later actions.
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  #166  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:38 PM
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The only problem is the liberal heads won't explode. The worst of the libtards here have the money to flee to other, free states and they'll bring their crappy ideas with them. Then the cycle starts over again. Personally, I'll be dead and gone before they destroy where I'm heading but I'm sure it will happen.
you're correct many liberals leave states they have destroyed only to repeat the process once again. I have read it on a LA Times Facebook thread. they boasted that he moved to Texas for financial reasons and will continue to vote democrat. proof in the pudding these people are cancer and spread their crap.

this is why people in other states don't want us moving to their state. This is what happened to Colorado I saw something on TV years ago that Democrats moved their to change it on purpose. the same could be said for our state.

there are also many who move to not change the new home state but to be part of it. to make a better life for themselves.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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  #167  
Old 01-14-2018, 6:57 PM
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We should all get government jobs and bleed the system dry instead of feeding it.
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  #168  
Old 01-14-2018, 7:17 PM
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So fight back “as hard as we can” and then what? You fought, you lost, move on. That’s what the tyrants want. You “fight” you legitimize them and their tyranny. And it’s not just guns. I wrote earlier they want to radically reshape kalifornia society. Look at the office of planning and research. It lays out exactly the goals and plans. Condense is into urban metropolises and force us to walk and bike.

The fight has long since ended. We lost. We who desire to live free, guide our own lives and live according to how we want, we lost. It’s not about guns. It’s about liberty. Liberty to live e as you please. But you can’t here. You can’t just live and not break the laws. You must actively follow the laws. You must actively change.

Someone mentioned home schooling. I know about this. My son was homeschooled for a year. The state dictates exactly how you homeschool and you still do so attached to a district. They monitor you. You cannot escape the clutches of the state.

“Fighting” is the facade they need, the charade by which they can justify everything they do. See, your participation is consent. They’ve set the rules and the game. You’ve chosen to play. So you don’t like the outcome, shut up peasant, you consented to the terms. You accepted the outcome exactly by playing.

So don’t play. Don’t participate. Deprive them the legitimacy they need. We had no opportunity last year. You know, everyone around here knows, it would never have been certified. If it was, it wouldn’t have passed. If it passed, it wouldn’t have been enforced. It it was, they’d pass new laws. Cumhola harris, look what she did with the dros wait ruling, the ccw ruling, and the roster micro stamping. You think she, or any of her lackeys and henchmen/women/people would even concede or yield a thing? Keep smoking what is now legal.

Hell, they even rigged the primary and election rules so they keep power. It gives you the outward appearance of ability to change things, but it’s designed so you think you can but can’t. If you can’t see that, I feel sorry for you.

The only thing they can’t do, at least not yet, is build a wall to keep us in. Staying and “fighting” is exactly what they want you to do. You’re accepting servitude.

I get it, leaving isn’t a viable option for a lot of people. We gun people are just the detritus of their designs. They hate us, but it’s not really the guns. It’s the freedom. And you have to understand that controlling where we live, how we drive, and all that, is still control. So gun “control” should make perfect sense.

But the sad reality is unless you’re planning to escape sooner or even later, you’re accepting servitude. But you got your weather and beaches.

I agree completely with 99% of what you write here, except for one thing: “We had no opportunity last year.” That is simply not true.

We may have lost the vote in the end, they may have manipulated the system around it, but we had every opportunity to get a proposition on the ballot to revoke this new slate of laws and we choked.

All we did by not coming through with a paltry number of signatures was reinforce in their minds that gun owners don’t really care about new “common sense” gun laws.

You may be right, they may have been able to defeat it in the end, but saying we had no opportunity is essentially defeatist and untrue.

That being said, I agree with you that the state is toast; and if you read my post thoroughly, what I said was that as long as I’m here I’ll stay and fight to push back on new legislation in self-defense, but that I’m also making plans to leave as soon as I can.

(Funny, I’ve got the “stay and fight” people accusing me of being unpatriotic by saying I’m planning to leave, and the “leave now” people accusing me of having blinders on and smoking dope because I say I’ll fight as long as I’m still here! Guess it would help if people read every post... no, what am I saying?! That’s crazy talk! )
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  #169  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:23 PM
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I agree completely with 99% of what you write here, except for one thing: “We had no opportunity last year.” That is simply not true.

We may have lost the vote in the end, they may have manipulated the system around it, but we had every opportunity to get a proposition on the ballot to revoke this new slate of laws and we choked.

All we did by not coming through with a paltry number of signatures was reinforce in their minds that gun owners don’t really care about new “common sense” gun laws.

You may be right, they may have been able to defeat it in the end, but saying we had no opportunity is essentially defeatist and untrue.

That being said, I agree with you that the state is toast; and if you read my post thoroughly, what I said was that as long as I’m here I’ll stay and fight to push back on new legislation in self-defense, but that I’m also making plans to leave as soon as I can.

(Funny, I’ve got the “stay and fight” people accusing me of being unpatriotic by saying I’m planning to leave, and the “leave now” people accusing me of having blinders on and smoking dope because I say I’ll fight as long as I’m still here! Guess it would help if people read every post... no, what am I saying?! That’s crazy talk! )
Patriotism is a funny thing. Back when it meant something, patriotism was an allegiance to ones state not the nation. How anyone with an IQ above room temp can be patriotic towards Ca baffles me.
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  #170  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:13 AM
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My line has been crossed, gun laws were just the straw that broke the camel's back.

1) I'm taxed at 50% of my income. Pensions, union dues, and a whole boatload of other stuff is deducted from my pay with no say in the matter.

2) I have no political representation in this state. Supposedly, I have white male privilege, but I've never seen this. Ive had to bust balls to go to Stanford and find a good job.

3) Real estate prices me out. I'm six years out of school with no debt and am struggling to buy a home of my own. I've spent the last year saving half of my take home pay to build a down payment. The only way I've managed this is by living for free at my parents vacation home in the middle of nowhere 2hrs commute from work.

4) Traffic is atrocious and getting worse in metropolitan areas. Public transit sucks but it's cheap even if it takes just as long as driving.

5) public spending is unsustainable and I do not see long term viability of pensions. I've already started to see that politicians promise everything, but don't hesitate to back out on ccontracts and promises when they become unsustainable.

6) The state gives to many medical and other privileges to non citizens, but requires citizenship to receive any benefits at at if you're already a citizen. That's tragically ironic. (This doesn't affect me personally, but it's disheartening to see a immigrant, unemployed non-citizen mother get 100% covered health care, while hard working citizens have to pay for insurance at high rates that only partially covers services.) I worked at a dental office in college, I saw this every day.

7) I've learned to keep opinions to myself and talk about guns never because people do not like conservatives and will go out of their way to ostracize you.

8) The state goes out of it's way to flaunt and defy federal law and seems to get away with it with impunity. Want federally banned substances? No problem! But if you want guns, they'll make a felon out of you.

9) Everything is too damn expensive. Food, utilities, entertainment, going out. Its super expensive here!

10) Even if the state were not as oppressive as it is, the 9th circuit is stacked against us and shoots us down. Plus, scotus doesn't take our cases!

11) The state uses the justice department to punish political opponents while loosening up sentences and early release for real criminals.

12) Gun ownership is too onerous. They're exprensive and hard to buy here without taking tests and paying fees for permits that expire in 5 years. Ammo just became a new nightmare. There are few places to shoot, and fewer every year. The state is constantly trying to make you a felon. The state doesn't notify owners of new laws, nor do they answer questions about the laws they pass. They also want to take away your rights if you're ever accused of a crime.

13) I hate the smell of weed everywhere I go!

I have a three year plan and I'm out. I refuse to live like this.
This post is why I'm leaving California too. Looking at purchasing a 2 or 4 unit retail complex and then doing a gun store (or God help me a cabinet/kitchen/bath store) in one of them and renting the others out.

If this state wasn't so hostile to working class dudes like me I would do it here but the Democrats have made it clear that they want illegals to be the 1st class citizens and the Republicans are a bunch of pussies who spend more time whining about Trump than attacking the other side. I'm pretty much out.
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Patriotism is a funny thing. Back when it meant something, patriotism was an allegiance to ones state not the nation. How anyone with an IQ above room temp can be patriotic towards Ca baffles me.
Depends on the California you live in.

If you are one of the super-privileged who work for Google or the State making tons of money, with good healthcare etc then Cali is great. It's great for illegal aliens too. Don't get deported, free health care, free college etc etc.

For everyone else Cali is ****.
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  #171  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:16 PM
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Solidsnake87, I get your frustration. While reading your post, I couldn't help but chuckle at a few items.

First, I am assuming you are a white, upper-middle class male. You are six years out of Stanford, debt free. Living in mommy and daddy's vacation villa for free, all while making more than $416,700 in taxable income. Welcome to what most people would call "White Privilege".

What is your minimum standard for a home? You have been saving half of your take-home pay (at least $17,362/month) for 18 months ($312,525). Even at 20% down, you could afford a $1.5M home!

I don't think you will get much sympathy on items 1-3. The others are valid though.

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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
My line has been crossed, gun laws were just the straw that broke the camel's back.

1) I'm taxed at 50% of my income. Pensions, union dues, and a whole boatload of other stuff is deducted from my pay with no say in the matter.

2) I have no political representation in this state. Supposedly, I have white male privilege, but I've never seen this. Ive had to bust balls to go to Stanford and find a good job.

3) Real estate prices me out. I'm six years out of school with no debt and am struggling to buy a home of my own. I've spent the last year saving half of my take home pay to build a down payment. The only way I've managed this is by living for free at my parents vacation home in the middle of nowhere 2hrs commute from work.
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  #172  
Old 01-15-2018, 1:42 PM
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This post is why I'm leaving California too. Looking at purchasing a 2 or 4 unit retail complex and then doing a gun store (or God help me a cabinet/kitchen/bath store) in one of them and renting the others out.

If this state wasn't so hostile to working class dudes like me I would do it here but the Democrats have made it clear that they want illegals to be the 1st class citizens and the Republicans are a bunch of pussies who spend more time whining about Trump than attacking the other side. I'm pretty much out.


Depends on the California you live in.

If you are one of the super-privileged who work for Google or the State making tons of money, with good healthcare etc then Cali is great. It's great for illegal aliens too. Don't get deported, free health care, free college etc etc.

For everyone else Cali is a ****HOLE.
I fixed your post so it reflects the word of the weekend. You can thank me later.

For me, the line was Gunmageddon and the failure of the people to stand up against tyranny. The apathy was so bad I realized there aren't even any sheep left. Those who were sheep have already been slaughtered and packaged for sale as chops, legs, and mutton. And they don't even know it. Or care.
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  #173  
Old 01-15-2018, 5:43 PM
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I agree SF is a beautiful city has so much history and great food. progressives destroyed a once wonderful city that has now taken over the entire state as every statewide elected office is occupied by someone from guess where? the bay area. their arrogance is disgusting and should be treated with prejudice and destroyed. they are not tolerant only tolerant if you agree with them.

they have destroyed my home state period. they can try and blame DC for it but that is f***** BS. they did it period.
Indeed. San Francisco has a very colorful history which now seems almost meaningless. Very sad.
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  #174  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:23 PM
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I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.
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  #175  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:56 PM
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“Most economically prosperous?” Really? Have you seen the condition of our roads, of our aging infrastructure bogged down by supporting more illegal aliens than any other state?

Any “prosperity” is off our backs in the form of a myriad of taxes, most recently demonstrated by another .12 cent a gallon increase in the gas tax, and a huge increase in car registration fees, so that Brown can build a $60 billion high speed train to nowhere.

There is ONE thing that makes California a desirable place to live: some of the best weather on the planet. But that’s not enough to stay in this Statist pit run by people like Brown and Newsom and Harris.

I’ve lived in CA my whole life, and have seen the quality of life dramatically decrease while the nanny state and it’s intrusive laws have increased exponentially.

Taxes have increased for virtually everything, to support more and more bureaucratic BS designed to mind our business for us and deny us our Constitutional rights.

Pretty stringent gun laws? Yeah, I’d say just a little.

The denial of the RKBA is a fundamental indicator of how free we are in general, and how healthy the condition of our overall rights.

If you can’t see that a State that denies its citizens the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution regularly and with impunity as an intolerable thing, then you have issues that Calguns and our opinions can’t fix.


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  #176  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ladiver View Post
Solidsnake87, I get your frustration. While reading your post, I couldn't help but chuckle at a few items.

First, I am assuming you are a white, upper-middle class male. You are six years out of Stanford, debt free. Living in mommy and daddy's vacation villa for free, all while making more than $416,700 in taxable income. Welcome to what most people would call "White Privilege".

What is your minimum standard for a home? You have been saving half of your take-home pay (at least $17,362/month) for 18 months ($312,525). Even at 20% down, you could afford a $1.5M home!

I don't think you will get much sympathy on items 1-3. The others are valid though.
Um no. I take home $3600/mo. That's after 33% taxes, medicare/ss, 10% pension contribution, 7%union dues and insurance. My deductions before I see anything 50% of my pay. I live on $1000, save $600, and put $2000 towards an eventual 20% down payment on a $280-$300k crap shack here. I commute by bus and light rail or else my fuel bill alone would be $600. I commute 4hrs/day, 5 days a week. Yup, gee, I'm lucky that my parents loan me something they don't have to so that I can work hard towards something. You know what they say about assuming right? But hey, be a smartass.
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:37 PM
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Um no. I take home $3600/mo. That's after 33% taxes, medicare/ss, 10% pension contribution, 7%union dues and insurance. My deductions before I see anything 50% of my pay. I live on $1000, save $600, and put $2000 towards an eventual 20% down payment on a $280-$300k crap shack here. I commute by bus and light rail or else my fuel bill alone would be $600. I commute 4hrs/day, 5 days a week. Yup, gee, I'm lucky that my parents loan me something they don't have to so that I can work hard towards something. You know what they say about assuming right? But hey, be a smartass.
I get ya. That is more what I was thinking. OK, my numbers were wrong, but my conclusions are still valid. Not much sympathy will not be coming from many. Many of us have worked through that range and others are still hoping to get there. Not many people in CA are making $86,400, debt free, living for free.

My best advice for you...Sugar Momma! Then become a DINK, life is good.


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  #178  
Old 01-15-2018, 8:38 PM
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But hey, be a smartass.
Always better than a dumbass

Sorry, I am WAY off topic. Please ignore me and return to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:52 PM
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I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.

Have you grown up in and/or live either the greater LA area or SF Bay Area?

Have you ever lived outside of CA? Or have family outside of CA that you've spent time with?

I ask because your opinions sound just like a typical person from those areas. Your opinions may change if you spent much time outside of the area and people you've been around for the vast majority of your life.
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  #180  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:02 PM
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I have lived in california for nearly 60 years (1958) and it has gotten progressively worse without any improvement for the the working or middle class (meaning less than $250K per year) Rich republicans and democrats have gotten richer and welfare rolls have gone up every year. Californians have moved to other states and screwed those states up because they do not blend in but they are determined to change their new state to make it exactly what they fled when they fled california. You might only have your bill of rights and constitutional rights for a short time longer because you won't have the power to stop the government once they take your weapons away. Guns established this country and our rights. the only guarantee you have is the weapon in your hands and what you are willing to kill for if someone tries to do what King George did 250 years ago. As long as you don't have the physical ability to protect yourself you are a slave and that is why guns are on people's minds. Cops solve crimes they do not prevent them and in this state they can be as bad as the criminals. If you do not believe me ask to see the abuse and criminals files on police officers in your local departments. It is not going to happen but your record is public. Double standard anyone? And where else is the double standard applied. This is a state that routinely lies to it's citizens. where do you draw the line in the sand and say enough is enough? It has nothing to do with how much you earn but what you believe in.
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  #181  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooseman View Post
I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.


We’re so prosperous, census just reported we have the highest poverty rate in the country. We have the second lowest home ownership rate in the country. We have the worst house burdened rate in the country. One third of all the welfare recipients in the country live in kalifornia. We have the highest income inequality. We have a shrinking middle class, one that is actually no longer the majority of the population. Real per capita income is in the lower half of states.

Yeah, we’re really prosperous. So much of the problems are masked by the glitz and glamour. And the press. We have a booming tech sector for sure. Certain areas and groups do very well. But the masses suffer.

Here’s a funny stat for you. Total up poverty numbers from census. Blue states add over 4 million people to poverty. Red states raise up over 1 million out of poverty. That’s purely policy. And if millions are pulled into poverty, millions more are brought nearer. Kalifornia is the worst offender. If millions are raised up from poverty, then millions more are raised further above it. That’s also policy.

Guns are freedom. Freedom is the generator of prosperity. You don’t get it. It’s not guns, it’s liberty. You enjoy comfortable servitude. Many of us do not.
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  #182  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooseman View Post
I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.
Hi Gooseman, welcome to the site. It's probably a good thing to have some opinions in this thread that differ from mine and others.

CA is prosperous in the sense that it has a massive economy that would rank 6th in the world if it were to be it's own country. I don't see that specifically contributing to a higher quality of life for the average person here though. The state is experiencing the highest poverty rate in the country when cost of living is factored in.

I agree with you that the line in the sand isn't just about guns. Maybe it is for some, but it isn't the only factor for me either. I will say that guns are perhaps one of, if not the biggest symbol of freedom in my opinion. Whether that freedom is being deprived on a 2A level, economic level, or from high tax with low representation, it still hurts. It's good to hear that you are doing well here and hope that you continue to do well here. Others simply aren't.

Anyways, I appreciate your post, and I also hope that you go DROS some more firearms.
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  #183  
Old 01-16-2018, 1:20 AM
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In California a large proportion of high paying jobs with great benefits are those jobs supported by taxpayers. For many (not all) public employees it's a jackpot securing one of these top drawer jobs. For the average citizen it's no jackpot, it's potholes. Look up transparentcalifornia.com.
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  #184  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:22 AM
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The line in the sand for me was crossed many years ago and as soon as we find the right house, we will be gone. The reasons are many but here is a recent example of why.

I am in the area just hit by the floods and mud flows. Many good neighbors volunteered and brought out their heavy equipment to clear roads and dig out houses. When they went to dump the mud at places that are set up for this they were denied access because they did not have permits. In some of the places where Caltrans is dumping mud, the locals are yelling and screaming about how they should not be allowed to dump ther mud until it is all tested and sanitized. 20 people have died, 73 houses destroyed, and close to 300 houses damaged. At a time when all roadblocks to recovery should be removed, local officials and the citizens are more concerned with inconsequential items. This state has lost sight of what is important in life and so we will be taking our retirement income elsewhere. To those that say if you can afford it here it is great, I wholeheartedly disagree.

We own our ranch in the foothills above Santa Barbara and have the money to stay, but I will not live in a place that punishes being responsible while rewarding irresponsibility.
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  #185  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooseman View Post
I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.
"Pretty stringent gun laws" may be the understatement of the year.

I have yet to see a post here from anyone saying that gun laws were the primary reason they left California. Generally, it's a better job, ability to profit in home buying with California's RE market, better place to raise a family, lower taxes, better schools, etc. Guns were the last thing on our minds when we headed for Texas in the mid-1980's...though once you're out of California it's a little cherry on the sundae.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Have you grown up in and/or live either the greater LA area or SF Bay Area?

Have you ever lived outside of CA? Or have family outside of CA that you've spent time with?

I ask because your opinions sound just like a typical person from those areas. Your opinions may change if you spent much time outside of the area and people you've been around for the vast majority of your life.
^This. It's your choice to be either part of the problem or part of the solution...no mid-ground imo
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  #186  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:15 AM
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The ammo law is really ridiculous, no more bulk packs of 22lr I guess?

But really not much has changed, I couldn't find 22 at a reasonable cost since forever. I can still order ammo online, but it might take a while for vendors to catch up on the new laws, or else it drives up the cost like everything else in this state. As for making us further neuter our AR's that does not change much. Everyone else in the US was already laughing at our bullet buttons, they would not be much good for self defense or any real use other than range toys anyways. Although there is much less fun factor with them now. If SHTF you can still ditch the fin rather easily, or just use it. probably better off than a BB anyways, just less enjoyable for practice.

I'm not surprised and have been looking at other places to move for a while, but my family and friends and everything I know in life is here so moving away would be difficult. There's allot of reasons to move other than gun laws alone though but I'm not there yet.

Hey it's still legal to own a non-neutered semi auto 30-06 with as many clips as you can shove into it Guess that's safer to defend yourself with 30-06 than the 22 caliber since they put all the restrictions on those.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 01-16-2018 at 9:17 AM..
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  #187  
Old 01-16-2018, 3:11 PM
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San Jose is going to hell faster and faster. An old strip mall is going to be converted into
(more) high density housing including a 6 story hotel, apartments over retail shops and a senior facility. And yet not a single extra lane to accommodate the extra traffic this will generate. This is in addition to the mayor's plan to build sheds for the homeless to live in. These shantytowns will have a communal bathroom and be in residential neighborhoods.

This crowding and socialist bull **** are big factors driving DW and me out of the PRK.
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  #188  
Old 01-16-2018, 4:40 PM
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San Jose is going to hell faster and faster. An old strip mall is going to be converted into
(more) high density housing including a 6 story hotel, apartments over retail shops and a senior facility. And yet not a single extra lane to accommodate the extra traffic this will generate. This is in addition to the mayor's plan to build sheds for the homeless to live in. These shantytowns will have a communal bathroom and be in residential neighborhoods.

This crowding and socialist bull **** are big factors driving DW and me out of the PRK.


Read this. It’ll blow your mind.

http://www.sgc.ca.gov/Initiatives/In...velopment.html

People have no idea what AB32 is going to do to this state. And have no idea how they’re going to force it on the subjects. They did this in the open. It’s really not some secret plan. How the hell is the public not...oh wait, this is kalifornia. The subjects love to obey and serve.
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  #189  
Old 01-16-2018, 4:45 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn1f...ature=youtu.be
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  #190  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:07 PM
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You cannot harm California politicians by leaving. You are in fact, preparing their battlefield for them by giving them what they want. These people do not want any gun owners in California, and leaving deducts from that total number that oppose them. And they are willing to trade whatever minuscule revenue gun owners might have contributed to the state for someone who is disarmed.

It seems that many here have misunderstood what 'Drawing a line in the sand' means... it means HERE, and no further! It is a metaphor meaning the end of compromise,... unlike the straw that broke the camels back...or the 'final straw'... an idiom that cumulative small things are the cause of sudden or great consequences.... like abandoning your home, work, and state because you cant take it anymore.
Then they can have it. I was not going to allow my children to live without the basic rites that nearly every other American in this country enjoy, for even ONE MORE DAY! Teenage girls in Kalifornia, have NO legal recourse for defending themselves effectively. They certainly do here in Texas. They CAN carry knives, and pepper spray. In the PRK, they wind up in jail for that..... NICE.

In the current state of affairs, your only recourse is the ammo box. The other boxes haven't work too well, have they.

Last edited by Dragunov; 01-16-2018 at 5:09 PM..
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  #191  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooseman View Post
I'm relatively new to Calguns. I'm also relatively new to guns in general; having just purchased my first gun a month or so ago. That being said; I agree CA seems to have pretty stringent gun laws compared to the rest of the country. I'm not entirely liberal but I'm not a 'gun nut' (forgive the expression) either.

But what I'm most curious about is this: it seems like most of you define your entire decision about whether to stay or go based on the state's gun laws. Seriously? It seems to be that one ought to consider more than just that.

The fact is that CA is one of, if not the most, economically prosperous states. For some of us, that's why we stay. Yes I know it's ridiculously expensive; but if/when you can get a foothold into real estate, you're 'in the game'...

I realize my thoughts may not agree with many on this site, but that's how I feel about it.
Thank you! See posts 16 and 37.
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  #192  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:28 PM
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My goodness this place is a ****hole.
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  #193  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
Thank you! See posts 16 and 37.

Yep. You guys should both just get rid of all your firearms now (after all it’s just a “hobby” like stamp collecting, right?) and if you really need to defend yourselves the cops are only 45 minutes away when seconds count.

I’m sure they’ll have the rape kits for your female family members available at a nominal charge. And if you have to, you can always defend yourselves with the teddy bear you got at the “Toys for Guns” turn in.

You’re absolutely going to willingly give them up without complaint, compensation or reservation later, so why not cut to the chase now?

Once more, then I give up (and this is mostly directed at ngnrnlo): the Second Amendment wasn’t written so you could have a hobby! It’s about _individual liberty_ as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights to the Constitution of the United States!

I would bet my bottom dollar that both of you were educated in public schools sometime after the mid 1980’s. You probably are experts on the Ohlone Indians and the wonders of “diversity” in our multi-cultural Mecca here in the PRK, but you wouldn’t know John Adams from Madison from Jefferson (other than the fact he was a corrupt dead white male who owned and abused slaves of course, I’m sure they covered that), or be able to articulate the philosophical differences between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists for that matter.

If you can’t see why defending individual liberty is important, then that’s the only conclusion I can make about your (lack of) education.

There are plenty of “hobbies” out there; collecting beanie babies comes to mind, but until you do, I’d give up playing with adult toys whose purpose you don’t understand.
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Last edited by Svashtar; 01-16-2018 at 5:39 PM..
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  #194  
Old 01-16-2018, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
Read this. It’ll blow your mind.

http://www.sgc.ca.gov/Initiatives/In...velopment.html

People have no idea what AB32 is going to do to this state. And have no idea how they’re going to force it on the subjects. They did this in the open. It’s really not some secret plan. How the hell is the public not...oh wait, this is kalifornia. The subjects love to obey and serve.
God almighty!
Every time I have a tiny shred of doubt about moving away, something like this gets tossed in my face.
Thanks for the link. I am beyond glad we are moving. I will shake the dust of California from my shoes this summer.
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  #195  
Old 01-16-2018, 6:08 PM
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I agree SF is a beautiful city has so much history and great food. progressives destroyed a once wonderful city that has now taken over the entire state as every statewide elected office is occupied by someone from guess where? the bay area. their arrogance is disgusting and should be treated with prejudice and destroyed. they are not tolerant only tolerant if you agree with them.

they have destroyed my home state period. they can try and blame DC for it but that is f***** BS. they did it period.
The shirthole tech workers ruined the state.
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