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  #1  
Old 10-10-2018, 7:20 PM
Unbekannt Unbekannt is offline
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Default AR 15 Not Stripping off Rounds From Magazine

This has become a problem. HELP

Using both the charging handle and the bolt catch SOMETIMES the bolt does not strip off a round from the magazine. Sometimes it moves the round inside the magazine a bit but does not strip it off. Sometimes it strips it but jams. Each time I have to drop the magazine and clear it with the charging handle. It is not specific to one magazine but them all.

I have done white glove cleanings. Lubricated the bolt catch and mag release, lubricated and re-lubricated the BCG, rails in the lower and so on. There is no damage to the bolt I can see.

Any ideas as to what is wrong?
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2018, 7:30 PM
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What mag are you using?
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2018, 7:40 PM
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You don’t have to worry about the bolt catch. If the BCG doesn’t hang on the BC until empty mag your problem is elsewhere.

The mag release components consist of the catch, spring and button. That wouldn’t be your issue either


I’m gonna suggest you remove the firing pin, and remove the trigger group for testing purposes at home. After that do this next suggestion...


Fill a mag press on bottom of mag while cycling all rounds. Pull the CH all the way back then release. See if it picks up the rounds.
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Old 10-10-2018, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.J.F. View Post
You donít have to worry about the bolt catch. If the BCG doesnít hang on the BC until empty mag your problem is elsewhere.

The mag release components consist of the catch, spring and button. That wouldnít be your issue either


Iím gonna suggest you remove the firing pin, and remove the trigger group for testing purposes at home. After that do this next suggestion...


Fill a mag press on bottom of mag while cycling all rounds. Pull the CH all the way back then release. See if it picks up the rounds.


Just here to second what you already said. Looks like you've got this covered. Tagging in case OP needs additional troubleshooting.


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  #5  
Old 10-10-2018, 8:21 PM
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What type of upper and what type of lower?

Do they mate together well? If you can see daylight between the upper and lower, that is part of the problem.

It would seem your bolt is too high in relation to where the next round is sitting in the magazine waiting to be pushed forward.

What type of magazine? And what type of magazine retention? Fixed mag? Standard magazine release?
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2018, 8:50 PM
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Thanks guys. Let me try to answer.

Steel, ten round, USGI type mags. I have on ten round plastic mag which is a blocked off 30 round. It happens to both kinds of mags.

The upper and lower mate ok, no daylight. Anyway, it has fired thousands of rounds without being a problem. Both are Black Forge and from the factory. I will watch this though.

The bolt being too high may be the problem (going back to the upper and lower). Any other things which could cause this?

I did try using one dummy round and it functioned ok but there was only one round (the dummy round) in the magazine.

I will run your procedure tomorrow B.J.F. and post tomorrow.

Thanks again all of you.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2018, 9:19 PM
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There are no steel USGI mags, so saying it's that "type" is meaningless. Saying "plastic" is meaningless. State the brands.

If it used to work then stopped working, what did you change?
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Old 10-10-2018, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
There are no steel USGI mags, so saying it's that "type" is meaningless. Saying "plastic" is meaningless. State the brands.

If it used to work then stopped working, what did you change?
Really? When he said USGI steel mag, I knew exactly what type he was talking about. There aren’t many styles of ar15 steel mags now plastic yeah there are a lot of manufacturers. Agreed with above that if it was working then it’s not something had to change or wear out.
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2018, 9:33 PM
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check to see that your mag catch hasn't worn down. Sometimes people buy those cool looking aluminum mag catches that can wear down at the top of the mag catch or even the pad has worn down that it doesn't properly retain the magazine.

Try to insert a magazine and pull on it to try to yank it out. If it comes out with your depressing the magazine release or maglock then that may be your issue.

also since the bolt is concentric to the BCG I dont see much of a reason for it to ride high unless the BCG is cracking somewhere to allow the bolt to move up and down. See how much play your BCG has in your upper.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....let us know what the problem is or was...dont be like that dude that said his buffer tube broke into 3 pieces and never reported back.
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:44 PM
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If it happens with any magazine , and while manually charging, I would first check to see if your BCG is going far enough back to strip the round by pulling the charging handle back completely(without magazine) and observing where the BCG stops. It should clear the ejection port completely. there may be an obstruction in the buffer tube. If it was happening only while firing I would suspect a gas related short stroke.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by spfabrication View Post
If it happens with any magazine , and while manually charging, I would first check to see if your BCG is going far enough back to strip the round by pulling the charging handle back completely(without magazine) and observing where the BCG stops. It should clear the ejection port completely. there may be an obstruction in the buffer tube. If it was happening only while firing I would suspect a gas related short stroke.


This is a good point. Sometimes those buffers explode in the tube leaving plastic bits and weights bouncing around in there


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  #12  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
Using both the charging handle and the bolt catch SOMETIMES the bolt does not strip off a round from the magazine.
Sometimes it moves the round inside the magazine a bit but does not strip it off.
Sometimes it strips it but jams.
Each time I have to drop the magazine and clear it with the charging handle.
It is not specific to one magazine but them all.
Is this happening with the bolt locked back, but the charging handle latched into the reciever or are you pulling the charging handle back and LEAVING the charging handle back and letting the bolt carrier group drag the charging handle forward when you depress the bolt release?
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:05 AM
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Anyway, it has fired thousands of rounds without being a problem. Both are Black Forge and from the factory.
Both the upper/lower have fired thousands of rounds and THEN the problem started, or is this problem related to a new upper half or some new components?
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by B.J.F. View Post
What mag are you using?
Start here, try a magpul 10 rd magazine...
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
There are no steel USGI mags, so saying it's that "type" is meaningless. Saying "plastic" is meaningless. State the brands.

If it used to work then stopped working, what did you change?
There are plenty of threads talking about mags. Mags are not the issue here.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:16 AM
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Default AR 15 Not Stripping off Rounds From Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
There are plenty of threads talking about mags. Mags are not the issue here.

Did you build the rifle from parts? If so what buffer tube did you use? What buffer spring? Buffer weight? Rifle or carbine buffer? Gas system length?


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Old 10-11-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by M76 View Post
Start here, try a magpul 10 rd magazine...
This is the easiest one, Magpul mags just plain fall out of the rifle. This is why I went to USGI-Type mags, in my case ASC mags which do not fall out of my rifle. Magpul had a chance and they failed so no more Magpul for me. I have another plastic mag---plastic mags are plastic mags-- which is a 30 round size so I can use it as a mono-pod while shooting prone. Whether I am using the ASC or plastic mag, the problem is the same.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
This is the easiest one, Magpul mags just plain fall out of the rifle. This is why I went to USGI-Type mags, in my case ASC mags which do not fall out of my rifle. Magpul had a chance and they failed so no more Magpul for me. I have another plastic mag---plastic mags are plastic mags-- which is a 30 round size so I can use it as a mono-pod while shooting prone. Whether I am using the ASC or plastic mag, the problem is the same.

Have you looked at the feed ramps? Have you tried a different kind of ammunition?


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Old 10-11-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
This is the easiest one, Magpul mags just plain fall out of the rifle. This is why I went to USGI-Type mags, in my case ASC mags which do not fall out of my rifle. Magpul had a chance and they failed so no more Magpul for me. I have another plastic mag---plastic mags are plastic mags-- which is a 30 round size so I can use it as a mono-pod while shooting prone. Whether I am using the ASC or plastic mag, the problem is the same.
If magpul mags are falling out of your rifle, you did something wrong...
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:24 AM
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Did you build the rifle from parts? If so what buffer tube did you use? What buffer spring? Buffer weight? Rifle or carbine buffer? Gas system length?


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I bought the rifle, Black Forge Carbine (16 inch barrel), intact. The ejection pattern ejected at about 2:00 so I replaced the spring with a Sprinco Orange spring (at their recommendation) and built an H2 buffer after buying weights. The ejection pattern is now at 4:00 so it was a little overgassed originally. After doing this--no problems with feeding and it has been at least 6 mo. since I made this change.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:25 AM
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Have you looked at the feed ramps? Have you tried a different kind of ammunition?


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Yes, with a magnifying glass and light. I have tried two or three brands of ammo in 55 and 62 grain---no difference.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
If magpul mags are falling out of your rifle, you did something wrong...
Yes, I bought a magpul mag. Choosing between a mil spec rifle and magpul is a no brainer for me. I really never want to hear the word "magpul" again.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:29 AM
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Yes, I bought a magpul mag. Choosing between a mil spec rifle and magpul is a no brainer for me. I really never want to hear the word "magpul" again.


Follow up here, have you tried tightening the mag release Button? What was preventing the magazines from catching properly? There has to be a mechanical reason for the failure and it's an uncommon one, which could possibly be related.


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Old 10-11-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
check to see that your mag catch hasn't worn down. Sometimes people buy those cool looking aluminum mag catches that can wear down at the top of the mag catch or even the pad has worn down that it doesn't properly retain the magazine.

Try to insert a magazine and pull on it to try to yank it out. If it comes out with your depressing the magazine release or maglock then that may be your issue.

also since the bolt is concentric to the BCG I dont see much of a reason for it to ride high unless the BCG is cracking somewhere to allow the bolt to move up and down. See how much play your BCG has in your upper.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....let us know what the problem is or was...dont be like that dude that said his buffer tube broke into 3 pieces and never reported back.
I am pulling all the way back in manual charging before releasing. When the bolt locks back, it is locked back and sometimes this happens then too.

The bolt catch was my first thought. This problem has gotten progressively worse like a wear problem. Could the bolt catch be interfering with bolt operation when not actually locking back a bolt?

I am going out this afternoon to run the cycling experiment mentioned above. I will remove the firing pin but the trigger is a drop in so I am going to leave it in place.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:34 AM
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Is this a featureless or maglocked rifle?


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  #26  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:35 AM
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Yeah, if magazines (of any brand) are falling out, there's something wrong with that lower or the way the lower parts were installed. Who built that lower?
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I am pulling all the way back in manual charging before releasing. When the bolt locks back, it is locked back and sometimes this happens then too.



The bolt catch was my first thought. This problem has gotten progressively worse like a wear problem. Could the bolt catch be interfering with bolt operation when not actually locking back a bolt?



I am going out this afternoon to run the cycling experiment mentioned above. I will remove the firing pin but the trigger is a drop in so I am going to leave it in place.


Magazine catch. Not bolt catch.


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Old 10-11-2018, 11:56 AM
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OK, I was calling this a mag release. This is obviously a featureless rifle since otherwise it would have a bullet button not a real mag release. The magpul mag was falling out with the bullet button and the mag release. I don't know why people are having such a problem with a plastic piece of crap like magpul--I certainly don't --I just got rid of it.

Returning to the bolt catch, it is steel but has a shiny wear spot on top. Could this be the problem?
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:59 AM
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Default AR 15 Not Stripping off Rounds From Magazine

Can you please post pictures of your bolt catch and your magazine catch? Magazine catch from the top looking down through the magazine well, and bolt catch from the front of the reciever looking toward the back of the stock.

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Old 10-11-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdc View Post
Follow up here, have you tried tightening the mag release Button? What was preventing the magazines from catching properly? There has to be a mechanical reason for the failure and it's an uncommon one, which could possibly be related.


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I installed the mag release myself. I tightened it down pretty tight--I thought. I do the "Clint Smith" procedure of inserting the mag rather forcefully, then pulling on it to make sure it is seated. Is possible I am loosening it up by pulling on it? Maybe I'll slap it down again.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:01 PM
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Can you please post pictures of your bolt catch and your magazine catch? Magazine catch from the top looking down through the magazine well, and bolt catch from the front of the reciever looking toward the back of the stock.

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I don't know how to post pictures. I have no device to take digital pictures.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:03 PM
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Default AR 15 Not Stripping off Rounds From Magazine

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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I don't know how to post pictures.


I assume you're using the browser. Message me and I'll send a walk through when I get off of work.

Also, when you do:

I'd like a picture of when your press your magazine release ALL THE WAY in, the outside of the magazine catch from the front facing toward the stock and the top down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I have no device to take digital pictures.

Edit : that complicates things.

Whereabouts in California do you live? (Nearest major city?)
Also does your cell phone have a camera? Even if it's just a simple one I'll pm you a number to send the pictures to.
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Last edited by Exdc; 10-11-2018 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:14 PM
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i'm calling it a mag catch issue.
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Exdc View Post
I assume you're using the browser. Message me and I'll send a walk through when I get off of work.

Also, when you do:

I'd like a picture of when your press your magazine release ALL THE WAY in, the outside of the magazine catch from the front facing toward the stock and the top down.




Edit : that complicates things.

Whereabouts in California do you live? (Nearest major city?)
Also does your cell phone have a camera? Even if it's just a simple one I'll pm you a number to send the pictures to.
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I don't have a cell phone. Where I am in the summer cabin at 6500 ft. in the Sierras, cell phones do not work but in any event I am that person who is never going to want a cell phone. Sorry.
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Old 10-11-2018, 1:02 PM
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No worries. It complicates things but hopefully we can still assist you with troubleshooting.


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Old 10-11-2018, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
i'm calling it a mag catch issue.
So in my terminology, this is a mag release, not a bolt catch, right?

It seems to me the central component touching on all the movements of the bolt and round is the bolt catch. If the mag release is not holding the magazine in properly, then I should find out later today if applying upward pressure to the magazine while cycling it with the charging handle works flawlessly. If then not applying pressure causes a problem, then it will be looking more like the mag release.
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Old 10-11-2018, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
So in my terminology, this is a mag release, not a bolt catch, right?

It seems to me the central component touching on all the movements of the bolt and round is the bolt catch. If the mag release is not holding the magazine in properly, then I should find out later today if applying upward pressure to the magazine while cycling it with the charging handle works flawlessly. If then not applying pressure causes a problem, then it will be looking more like the mag release.
I mean it can be so many things. at one point you're saying regardless if you manipulate the bolt and with a bullet button the gun wouldn't retain a magpul magazine. I'm not sure if that is exactly what you're saying in which case I would just say thats a mag catch thing.

I"ve had a magazine catch crack at the point where the stud attaches to the mag catch and I couldn't really see that it was loose and it took me about 15 minutes to figure out that it was broken and was getting inconsistent magazine seating.

It sounds like you maybe dont have multiple rifles that you can swap uppers and lowers with but if you do have a buddy close by that has one i'd swap before you do anything and you may be able to immediately point to either an upper/BCG issue or a lower issue. It makes life a lot easier than starting to take things apart and try to search for issues.
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Kingpin and Hyperswitch FAQ and troubleshoot

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1428078
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  #38  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:26 PM
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Default AR 15 Not Stripping off Rounds From Magazine

For what it's worth. May be making false differentiation between mag catch and release 🤷🏽*♂️







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Legislator "logic":
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 10-11-2018 at 1:28 PM..
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  #39  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
This is the easiest one, Magpul mags just plain fall out of the rifle. This is why I went to USGI-Type mags, in my case ASC mags which do not fall out of my rifle. Magpul had a chance and they failed so no more Magpul for me. I have another plastic mag---plastic mags are plastic mags-- which is a 30 round size so I can use it as a mono-pod while shooting prone. Whether I am using the ASC or plastic mag, the problem is the same.
Mags falling out of a gun is absolutely a lower problem, not a magazine problem.
Low magazine catch tension causes magazines to drop out of the lower just slightly and the bolt does not strip a round.

Resting the weight of the gun on the magazine as you call a monopod can absolutely cause function problems such as the bolt carrier not closing fully on the chamber with a round in the chamber.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 10-11-2018 at 3:48 PM..
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Old 10-11-2018, 3:39 PM
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I am pulling all the way back in manual charging before releasing.
If you pull back the charging handle and then LET GO of the charging handle to charge the rifle, the charging handle can bounce up and down as it's being yanked forward by the bolt carrier/buffer/spring.
This absolutely causes failures to chamber properly on some guns.

Try this instead:
Pull the charging handle to the rear and lock the bolt with the bolt catch.
Push the charging handle back forward until it latches into the upper reciever.
Insert loaded magazine in lower reciever until it locks into place.
Tug on the magazine to check that it is indeed locked in place.
Press the bolt release to let the bolt strip a round off the top of the magazine.

That's the proper manual-of-arms on how you are supposed to run an AR type firearm.
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