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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 11-25-2017, 4:00 PM
Darksandz Darksandz is offline
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Default Star Model B help

Greetings everyone,

I purchased a Soviet bastardized Bulgarian contract Star Model B from Rguns a few weeks ago and finally had a chance to take it out to shoot on Wednesday and encountered multiple issues. I did field strip the pistol and soaked it in multiple rounds of mineral spirits to remove the cosmoline prior to shooting.

Boy, where do I start?

First, after every few rounds, the extractor pin shimmies its way almost completely above the slide. I assume it's just a poorly fitted pin that was selected during the Soviet re-arsenal process. I'm sure I can find a replacement or make my own if needed. Does anyone have a suggestion of what could work?

Second, the slide stop wants to fall out if the gun is barely tilted to the left after a few rounds. The detent, cross-pin, and spring appear to be intact on the slide stop and the post that it comes into contact with on the frame isn't loose. When I press onto the detent, it isn't stiff; is it supposed to be?

Third, and the biggest issue, is with the trigger bar/sear contact. After a couple of rounds, I noticed the trigger wasn't resetting. I couldn't fire the gun at all. After removing the grip, it appears that the trigger bar is bypassing the sear instead of engaging it. Instead of contacting the sear head on, it wants to jump to the side and move past the sear and disconnector. I hope the photos and gif of the issue illustrates the issue properly.


Here's a link to the images and videos of the issues:
https://imgur.com/a/NFHv3


At this point, I'm wondering whether it would be worth it to hunt down these replacement parts to get it to work. Rguns got back to me and said they would issue a refund or exchange the pistol if I sent it back to them. On one hand, I would be out $80 for the initial transfer and DROS if I return and on the other, I would have to pay to re-DROS the new pistol with the risk of it being a dud as well. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

Also, is there anyone in the OC area with a working Star Model B willing to let me take a look at theirs? I'd like to meet up at FT3 and am willing to pay your range fee for your time. If not the range, we can meet wherever you want and I can throw in a couple boxes of 9mm.
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2017, 6:37 PM
SamGoldstein SamGoldstein is offline
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I have the same pistol. It appears to me that the trigger bar and sear stay properly aligned when the right side grip is installed. However, verify your trigger bar is not bent, and the trigger is not loose where the pivot pin is located. Iím not a gunsmith, but it seems to me that the geometry of the trigger bar and sear are not within tolerance, i.e. not properly align through the entire length of the trigger pull. I do not have any of the problems you mentioned with my star model B from RGUns. Good luck.
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Old 11-25-2017, 6:58 PM
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SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
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Peen the extractor pin slightly to keep it from walking. Or you could also put a very slight bend into the pin at about 1/3rd the length. Some guns have slightly bent extractor pins by design. The bend will put spring tension on the pin when it is installed and keep it in place.

I would probably try the bend before trying a peened end. Then you do not have to worry so much about accidentally driving a peened end through the extractor pivot hole by accident.

Back the inside of the right grip with something (like a brass shim plate glued to the grip, or a shim of wood) to keep the trigger bar from moving outwards. Adjust the thickness of the shim as necessary to achieve the goal without introducing too much (or any) drag on the bar.

The detent should be fairly stiff. If not, stretch the spring out a bit to give it some extra power and reinstall and test.

I have a Wolff master spring kit with every coil spring likely to be found in a gun. I also have a Star B, I can look at the detent spring and come up with a new stiffer and/or longer one if need be and send it to you. But first test stretching out the spring you have.

And thanks for sharing this info, so I know what to look for when I get around to degreasing and shooting mine.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-25-2017 at 7:17 PM..
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2017, 3:31 PM
Pofoo Pofoo is online now
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The trigger bar should not jump off the sear even with the grip off.
It appears that the bar/sear contact angles are not 90 deg., allowing the bar to slip off instead of pushing. Perhaps a little stone/file work would work. You may have to buy new parts. Or as mentioned above, the bar is bent.
Spanish pistols have a bad rep as far as steel strengths. They seem to be very inconsistent through out the years, and some parts are very soft and wear out quickly.
You don't have a magazine disconnect, so that make it easier to diagnose.
I agree that a slight bend on the extractor pin should work.
I also agree with stretching the spring on the slide stop. It is also held with a small pin. Even with no pressure on the stud on the slide, it shouldn't fall out so easily. It should be held captive by a slot in the slide and only come out when it lines up with the take down notch. So, it may be worn and need to be replaced also.
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Old 11-26-2017, 4:04 PM
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fawndog fawndog is online now
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I was told that 1911 smiths would be able to work on these. I have not actively sought one out yet.

PS, these are good sources

Jack First Gun Parts

Wolff Springs

Last edited by fawndog; 11-26-2017 at 4:13 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2017, 4:12 PM
Pofoo Pofoo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawndog View Post
I was told that 1911 smiths would be able to work on these. I have not actively sought one out yet.

PS, these are good sources

Jack First Gun Parts

Wolff Springs

Sarco Inc
They are similar in function, but the triggers are totally different.
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Old 11-26-2017, 4:16 PM
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fawndog fawndog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pofoo View Post
They are similar in function, but the triggers are totally different.
Sarco Inc.

As far as parts go sure, but wouldn't a competent gunsmith be able to handle this ancient technology ?


PPS Links are limited, due to spamming I suppose.
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Old 11-26-2017, 4:22 PM
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It is the disconnector that appears to be pushing the bar out and away from the sear. When the slide recoils, a cam on the slide forces the disconnector down which pushes the trigger bar down to disengage the trigger from the sear, resetting the works for the next shot and insuring the hammer does not ride.

It is the disconnector / trigger bar interface that needs to be kept in check somehow. There are some older gun designs like this that do in fact rely on the grip being in place to keep the trigger bar from floating out, causing the disconnector to slip under it like the pic below provided by the OP.

But you should also look at the bottom of the disconnector to be sure it is not tapered or has a knife edge. It should be a flat edge along the bottom (although it may be rounded up on the front/rear long side edges and that should not be changed).

Another thing to look at, is if the disconnector rides captured in a channel (like a Colt/Sig style .380 1911), be sure the disconnector is not coming out of the channel. In your pic below, the disconnector looks a bit tweaked in the channel but that could be because it is jammed under the trigger bar.

If mine was not still covered in preservative grease I would take a closer look at the design for you. But at this point my guess is the trigger bar needs to be kept in check better by the grip, so the disconnector can not slip past it.

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-28-2017 at 8:56 PM..
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Old 11-26-2017, 4:53 PM
Darksandz Darksandz is offline
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Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

So I punched out the cross bar on the slide stop to remove the detent and two springs came out of the tiny hole. I'm assuming it's supposed to be one spring and broke over time. I stretched both of them out and replaced everything to no avail, but I'm sure once I replace it with a new spring, it will function properly. SkyHawk, thank you very much for your offer. I don't have calipers to measure the spring but it's tiny. If you could tell me which one of your wolff springs work, I'd really appreciate it!

With regard to the trigger bar, it does not appear to be bent. However, there is a lot of room between it and the frame. I stuck a tiny little washer in between the bar and the frame which helped immensely but when the disconnector disengages the trigger, the bar has trouble clicking back into place on the sear. I'm sure filing either the trigger bar or the edge of the sear will remedy this.

With the disconnector bar removed, the problem still occurs which I suspect has to do with the play between the bar and frame as well as the fact that there's barely any meat on the sear for the bar to rest up against. When I watched MosinVirus's Star B disassembly video on youtube, his sear looks like it has much more metal on the area that contacts the trigger bar than mine. I'm thinking about purchasing a sear from Numrich before I start filing anything.
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Old 11-26-2017, 5:28 PM
Pofoo Pofoo is online now
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I believe that the trigger bar is pinned in a slot in the trigger, which helps to keep it from wobbling. The trigger slot may also be rather crudely peened. You might want to check this. The trigger itself, should not wobble in the frame also. R+R'ing the trigger is a bit of a project. Mostly hard to get back in, but doable.
The bar is guided in place by the trigger and where it rubs on the frame. So that might be something to look at also. Your washer idea sounds like you might be on the right track.
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Old 11-26-2017, 5:52 PM
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Tiny coil spring you say? I have a lot, in more sizes than shown here.

Someone please save me from dismantling my pistol which is currently smothered in grease, and use some calipers to get me an O.D. for the coil and also the OD size of the wire itself (which for this size spring is much less important than the coil O.D.), and I will send a few down. You can cut it to length.

If nobody has one to measure I will bite the bullet and break my pistol down. It is probably time to revive it anyhow. It sounds like it needs a thorough teardown and inspection I guess, before I hit the range.

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-26-2017 at 5:58 PM..
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Old 11-26-2017, 7:28 PM
Darksandz Darksandz is offline
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Hey there SkyHawk, thanks again for your help. Here's the best I could come up with (I really need to get a caliper lol). It's missing a few links as a result from breaking off, but here's what my spring looks like.

https://imgur.com/a/vVhTi
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Old 12-05-2017, 9:30 PM
Darksandz Darksandz is offline
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Hey everyone,

Just wanted to give a quick update on my progress. SkyHawk graciously sent over a few Wolff Springs, specifically, sizes 3-6, 3-7, 3-8, and 3-9. I'm happy to report that the slide stop now sits securely against the frame .

https://imgur.com/a/xiYug

None of the springs required coil trimming. Sizes 3-6, 3-8, and 3-9 all got the job done with the only difference (besides size) being increased tension respective to the bigger size. The tension on the 3-7 spring was a no-go as it was too loose.

It looks like the success of a replacement spring is also dependent on how much material is left on the slide-stop detent. Depending on how much material is sticking out against the post on the frame, you'll have to adjust your spring size/tension accordingly. Big thanks to SkyHawk again!
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