Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 06-24-2018, 6:46 AM
jeffh jeffh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 500
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Keep it simple, what name of the brand and type do you want any jury to hear if you end up in court? How about Critical Defense? Pretty much sums up your intent. Some of those other names just don't quite sound right to the uninformed. Same with any gunsmithing, how about Cajun Gun Works' Defensive Package? At the end of the day, try everything possible to avoid having to discharge your gun in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-24-2018, 10:05 AM
rugershooter rugershooter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,719
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffh View Post
Keep it simple, what name of the brand and type do you want any jury to hear if you end up in court? How about Critical Defense? Pretty much sums up your intent. Some of those other names just don't quite sound right to the uninformed. Same with any gunsmithing, how about Cajun Gun Works' Defensive Package? At the end of the day, try everything possible to avoid having to discharge your gun in the first place.
Does it really matter what the name is? Do you have any examples of previous cases where that was an issue?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-15-2018, 10:11 PM
painkiller painkiller is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 370
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Winchester ranger plus or minus a p
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:09 AM
Skip_Dog's Avatar
Skip_Dog Skip_Dog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 870
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Fed HST here. Thinking about trying some gold dots.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:42 PM
igs igs is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 82
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Some places dont allow hollow points and neither do international treaties. Safer to stick with fmj than have to explain you were trying to cause more severe and untreatable injuries with hps.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-16-2018, 11:48 PM
LoadedM333 LoadedM333 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mira Mesa
Posts: 961
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by igs View Post
Some places dont allow hollow points and neither do international treaties. Safer to stick with fmj than have to explain you were trying to cause more severe and untreatable injuries with hps.


When you have to shoot in self defense, you want to use ammo that stops the threat; hollow points are designed for this. It won’t be safer if FMJ goes through the wall and takes out innocents than your intended target.
If you’re worrying about international treaties, you might as well give up your firearms in self defense.

Just my $.02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
NRA LifeTime Member
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-17-2018, 7:51 AM
KahrMan's Avatar
KahrMan KahrMan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 446
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Presumably the OP is referring to 9mm...It is not just how well the particular load tests out but how well it functions in your semi-auto firearm.
__________________
My God, even the Conservatives are liberal in the messed up State
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-17-2018, 6:11 PM
Colorado Kid Colorado Kid is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default CCW Ammo

From LoadedM333

Quote:
Originally Posted by igs View Post
Some places dont allow hollow points and neither do international treaties. Safer to stick with fmj than have to explain you were trying to cause more severe and untreatable injuries with hps.

Loaded: FMJ will penetrate walls, fences, car doors etc.; JHP or HP may but is less likely; One of our biggest responsibilities is to make every attempt to hit ONLY our assailant(s) and not an innocent person or persons. I carry Speer Gold Dot in all three of my carry weapons, 9mm, .40 and .45.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-17-2018, 6:44 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 31,379
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by igs View Post
Some places dont allow hollow points and neither do international treaties. Safer to stick with fmj than have to explain you were trying to cause more severe and untreatable injuries with hps.
FUD

San Francisco has a specific prohibition on Black Talon, and other LE-Only ammo not available to the public with similar ballistics to Black Talon.
As far as explaining anything, that is your attorney's job, and JHP is the defacto standard in defensive ammunition.
It is not and has never been a problem.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-22-2018, 10:49 AM
LoadedM333 LoadedM333 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mira Mesa
Posts: 961
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Kid View Post
From LoadedM333



Quote:





Loaded: FMJ will penetrate walls, fences, car doors etc.; JHP or HP may but is less likely; One of our biggest responsibilities is to make every attempt to hit ONLY our assailant(s) and not an innocent person or persons. I carry Speer Gold Dot in all three of my carry weapons, 9mm, .40 and .45.

Absolutely agree that only hit the intended target, assailant(s); however, during life and death situation (defensive shooting) most of the time the attacks are surprised with stress, adrenaline, I doubt that if one can hit the target 100%.

A good example, LAPD SWAT team, when they are called in to shoot, they know or have description of their intended target, their hit rate is 85% or less. They practice twice a week to achieve this.

One might say yes I practice a lot but it is much different when shooting a paper target than the real assault.

I just think it is absurd to consider fmj because some international treaties or city ordinance, IMHO.

I use Winchester Ranger T, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot but my EDC Glock 19 likes HST.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
NRA LifeTime Member
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:00 AM
tumark2's Avatar
tumark2 tumark2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: lake county
Posts: 141
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffh View Post
Keep it simple, what name of the brand and type do you want any jury to hear if you end up in court? How about Critical Defense? Pretty much sums up your intent. Some of those other names just don't quite sound right to the uninformed. Same with any gunsmithing, how about Cajun Gun Works' Defensive Package? At the end of the day, try everything possible to avoid having to discharge your gun in the first place.
if god forbid, you end up using deadly force and then have to justify it in court. The brand name of your ammo is the least of your problems. You may have to articulate how and why you selected that ammo. issues like greater stopping power means less shots fired. that JHP if you hit your intended target are less likely to pass through and hit unintended targets ie innocent civilians, that if you miss your intended target a JHP is more likely to fragment when hitting an inanimate object rather than FHJ ricocheting keeping most of its energy and again hit innocent civilians.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:05 AM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 31,379
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumark2 View Post
if god forbid, you end up using deadly force and then have to justify it in court. The brand name of your ammo is the least of your problems. You may have to articulate how and why you selected that ammo. issues like greater stopping power means less shots fired. that JHP if you hit your intended target are less likely to pass through and hit unintended targets ie innocent civilians, that if you miss your intended target a JHP is more likely to fragment when hitting an inanimate object rather than FHJ ricocheting keeping most of its energy and again hit innocent civilians.
This is all fine, but it is your job only to articulate this to your attorney, and if he's worth a crap at defending self-defense incidents, he already knows this.
It is his job to articulate this to the court via carefully constructed questions that are mostly yes/no in nature.
The more "description" or "explanation" you do on the stand, the more likely the jury is to misinterpret.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-25-2018, 10:22 PM
Haplo's Avatar
Haplo Haplo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 571
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I think it really comes down to what works well for you as what you practice with. I don't think there is any "bad" ammo, just use what you practice with. I'm assuming what you use is not illegal as some places ban use of certain ammo.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-26-2018, 9:57 AM
Whacked Whacked is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anyone try the Winchester Train & Defend?
I like the concept. train with the ammo you use to defend

I picked up a set, but just been to hot, or smokey to go to the range
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-26-2018, 11:25 AM
MajorCaliber MajorCaliber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 210
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I've watched videos with enough gelatin shot to fill a swimming pool. For standard bullet construction I think you can't beat Federal HST's especially the +p versions in any caliber for the best chance of stopping the attack with a single shot. This is what you want, not only because it ensures your best chance of surviving the attack, but also because your self defense shooting is less likely to result in your attacker's death if you don't have to shoot him multiple times. Furthermore, if you can stop the assailant with a single shot, that eliminates the possibility that subsequent shots you may have to take to stop the attack will go astray and injure a bystander.

If you are willing to explore a more innovative bullet design, you owe it to yourself to check out the Xtreme Defense line from Lehigh Defense. These are solid copper projectiles that, for lack of a better description, look like Phillips screwdriver bits. The combination of barrier penetration, huge wound cavity and optimal penetration are just unbeatable, and without turning this into a physics lesson, I think there are good physics reasons for the superior performance. It is NOT just a gimmick. The difference between this round and its competitors is especially large in the case of .380. This one round makes a short barreled .380 a serious choice for self defense. These same projectiles are loaded, often to higher velocities and +p versions, by Underwood Ammo using low flash powder.

The only objection I can see is an unscrupulous prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney trying to fabricate a false narrative that your choice of such aggressive looking ammo shows some evil intent on your part. To those who think they can protect themselves from the unscrupulous prosecutor or attorney by picking the same ammo as local LEO's, I don't think you can win this issue. They will simply fabricate a different lie that the fact that you researched and chose what LEO's use shows you are a cop wannabe or vigilante. You cant stop the unscrupulous prosecutor from making up a lie about you, all you can do is influence which lie they tell. I choose not to let that drive my choice of how I defend my life. I'm choosing the best chance for my survival for all involved.
__________________
I wish today's liberals could understand: You cannot be generous by giving away other peoples' money and you cannot demonstrate your virtue by your willingness to give up other peoples' rights.

The more time I spend on this forum, the more sense kcbrown makes.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-26-2018, 2:12 PM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The best ammo will depend it works with your gun.

I highly recommend watching Paul Harrell's videos comparing different ammo types.

You really need to test it for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-26-2018, 2:14 PM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Just saw someone post the hollow points aren't likely to go through walls. That is completely wrong.

If you miss, your HP is easily going through a wall still.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-26-2018, 2:55 PM
Whacked Whacked is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
FUD

San Francisco has a specific prohibition on Black Talon, and other LE-Only ammo not available to the public with similar ballistics to Black Talon.
As far as explaining anything, that is your attorney's job, and JHP is the defacto standard in defensive ammunition.
It is not and has never been a problem.

I was under the assumption that HP ammo was blanket banned in SF County??

not that I would ever WILLINGLY visit SF or the Bay Area
"And behind Curtain Number 1, a Lifetime supply of FECES AND NEEDLES! The San Francisco Treat!!"
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-26-2018, 3:38 PM
boo2112 boo2112 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 592
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
I highly recommend watching Paul Harrell's videos comparing different ammo types.
Which might be helpful in case you ever have to defend yourself from a watermelon covered by flank steak.

Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-26-2018, 7:03 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 31,379
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
Just saw someone post the hollow points aren't likely to go through walls. That is completely wrong.

If you miss, your HP is easily going through a wall still.
Yup.
When hitting drywall, most JHP "plug" with plaster and from there on act like FMJ.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 07-26-2018, 7:28 PM
ACfixer's Avatar
ACfixer ACfixer is offline
Global Warming Enthusiast
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: KAPV-L35 SoCal
Posts: 2,058
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by igs View Post
Some places dont allow hollow points and neither do international treaties. Safer to stick with fmj than have to explain you were trying to cause more severe and untreatable injuries with hps.
International treaties? Yeah I'll have to keep that in mind, I wouldn't want to piss off the Rhodesian government when I shoot someone that sticks me up. What a stupid post.
__________________


Buy made in USA whenever possible.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-26-2018, 11:00 PM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo2112 View Post
Which might be helpful in case you ever have to defend yourself from a watermelon covered by flank steak.

Yes, it's better to only rely on the ballistics gel tests. It would be foolish to see utility in simulating basic human anatomy with a flesh and muscle and bone from animals.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyIrt7-kzjY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyIrt7-kzjY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PPwHmQLm28">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PPwHmQLm28" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:11 AM
boo2112 boo2112 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 592
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
It would be foolish to see utility in simulating basic human anatomy with a flesh and muscle and bone from animals.
No, it would be foolish to think you can draw any valid conclusions from a flawed "test" that doesn't even attempt to follow the scientific method.

The videos are simply entertainment.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07-27-2018, 6:55 AM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo2112 View Post
No, it would be foolish to think you can draw any valid conclusions from a flawed "test" that doesn't even attempt to follow the scientific method.

The videos are simply entertainment.
Lol, after seeing him fire different ammo out of the same gun and compare velocity readings is definitely stupid. The manufacturer tells you it's velocity, so no need to measure it for yourself.

Good talk, Professor
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 07-27-2018, 7:18 AM
Striper 05 Striper 05 is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 780
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

i carry 9mm and i use the heaviest (147gr) bullet i can find that cycles reliably
i currently carry winchester personal defense 147gr jacketed hollow point
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:50 AM
boo2112 boo2112 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 592
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
Good talk, Professor
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

-Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07-27-2018, 3:19 PM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo2112 View Post
always use quotes to distract from your inability to accept evidence of bullet velocity varying by manufacturer, gun model, and barrel length
Agreed.

Good to end the discussion there.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07-27-2018, 3:25 PM
71MUSTY's Avatar
71MUSTY 71MUSTY is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,548
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

MY IA uses Winchester Ranger T, (probably the low bid) but if it's good enough for them...
__________________
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-27-2018, 8:52 PM
boo2112 boo2112 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 592
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
Agreed.

Good to end the discussion there.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07-28-2018, 12:18 AM
mansysinatra mansysinatra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 138
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
Absolutely agree that only hit the intended target, assailant(s); however, during life and death situation (defensive shooting) most of the time the attacks are surprised with stress, adrenaline, I doubt that if one can hit the target 100%.

A good example, LAPD SWAT team, when they are called in to shoot, they know or have description of their intended target, their hit rate is 85% or less. They practice twice a week to achieve this.

One might say yes I practice a lot but it is much different when shooting a paper target than the real assault.

I just think it is absurd to consider fmj because some international treaties or city ordinance, IMHO.

I use Winchester Ranger T, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot but my EDC Glock 19 likes HST.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
fwiw

https://youtu.be/PyIrt7-kzjY">https://youtu.be/PyIrt7-kzjY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">

https://youtu.be/PyIrt7-kzjY

Last edited by mansysinatra; 07-28-2018 at 12:20 AM.. Reason: link not working
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07-28-2018, 9:34 AM
LoadedM333 LoadedM333 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mira Mesa
Posts: 961
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mansysinatra View Post
Comparing video ha, how about below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UP7p3fxgzE

Anyway, I'm using Federal HST now since I've shot all the T-series.
__________________
NRA LifeTime Member
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-02-2018, 6:25 PM
mdunbar's Avatar
mdunbar mdunbar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 100
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Hornady
Critical duty.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:23 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.