A question for LEO ONLY about concealed carry

[TurboChrisB]

There's a conversation over in the CCW forum here.....one of many over the years....about how a permit carrier should inform police during a traffic stop as many IA's policy is to do just that.

Many say you should politely state that you have a permit and ask how to proceed from there. There is always much discussion of the perfect verbiage.

Now I remember talking to my brother (now Ret. Riverside Sheriff ) some years ago when I was getting my first permit on how to proceed and what to say and he looked at me and said, " Why? Just hand over your CDL with the permit ........then let THEM tell you how they'd like YOU to proceed after that"

That always made sense to me.

How do you all prefer the initial interaction to go.

[DNA]

Windows rolled down, radio turned down/off, dome lights on (as applicable), hands on steering wheel.

A simple, "before I start reaching for anything, I am armed. I have a "insert favored phrase here for ltc/ccw, my firearm is located... How would you like me to proceed."

Doing this identifies that you are armed and have no intention of reaching for anything and allows the LEO to control the interaction to their satisfaction.

Dan

P.s. nothing is more terrible than something that happens due to lack of communication. Imagine reaching for your wallet/ID/ltc, having your shirt ride up and exposing a firearm somewhere near your hand and an over reaction occurring. From partner shouting out, "he's got a gun!"and finding a barrel screwed into the side of your head before you're able to explain or even worse?

[CBR_rider]

This has been answered at least a dozen times in various threads. Read my post in the other thread in the CCW forum for my take

[esy]

I answered in that thread too.

I prefer what DNA said.

Windows down, lights on, hands on steering wheel, “I am a valid CCW permit holder. How would you like me to proceed?”

Why? This is how I conduct vehicle stops.
- Hi, I’m so and so. The reason I stopped you is blah.
- Without reaching for anything, do you have blah?
- insert your statement here.
- Ok, blah.

[Gun Kraft]

Think of it like how you greet people. There are many different ways to do so that are appropriate for a given context and many more that are not. Just because I may say, "Hi, how are you?" doesn't mean "Hi, how's it going?" isn't appropriate. Same thing here.

I think the common thread to all responses (including mine) would be to indicate you have a permit (either verbally or by handing it over) and then indicating you won't do anything unexpected without the Officer's instructions (again by asking verbally or waiting for them to say something).

[CBR_rider]

Originally Posted by sgt1372

I understand how reading a thread about the same topic "again" can become annoying to forum vets but it would take less time to just to ignore the thread than post a "I said that already" message that really isn't helpful.

Redundancy is not something rare here or in any other public forum because most people do not read every thread or bother to search for any that pertain to the topic they are asking about. So, a meaningful response MAY be useful and informative to someone reading this type of thread for the 1st time.

Why? I posted my answer in he very thread he is referencing?

ETA: furthermore; I am not griping at the OP. As you mention, others may read this thread for the first time and therefore they when they go peruse the other thread they can see my response and go from there. Also,any times forums that have constantly recurring topics often make general answers to those things stickies. Maybe a Moderator who doesn’t read all these will see my post, realize it is asked/answered often, and might consider a sticky on the subject?

[CinnamonBear723]

Originally Posted by TurboChrisB

There's a conversation over in the CCW forum here.....one of many over the years....about how a permit carrier should inform police during a traffic stop as many IA's policy is to do just that.

Many say you should politely state that you have a permit and ask how to proceed from there. There is always much discussion of the perfect verbiage.

Now I remember talking to my brother (now Ret. Riverside Sheriff ) some years ago when I was getting my first permit on how to proceed and what to say and he looked at me and said, " Why? Just hand over your CDL with the permit ........then let THEM tell you how they'd like YOU to proceed after that"

That always made sense to me.

How do you all prefer the initial interaction to go.

I recently heard of a young/new cop who stopped a fella on a traffic violation. He handed over the permit without saying anything. The officer, not having seen a CCW permit before, took quite a while to realize what he was looking at. Once he figured it out, removed the guy from the car and disarmed him. The officer then looked up CCW laws, and told the guy he violated the terms because he did not verbal inform him he was armed.

The officer contacted the CCW office and had the guys permit revoked. Unfortunately, I did not hear of this until a few days later and was unable to correct it. I was able to educate the officer for future encounters but the damage was done.

So my advice would be to make sure the first words out of your mouth are, "Officer, I have to inform you I am a CCW holder and am currently armed with a loaded weapon." If you say it in a calm respectful manner, you should get a good response from the officer. After that, tell him where you keep the permit card and wait for his instructions to remove it. In my opinion, this is a good practice in order to keep both of you safe, and fullfill all your requirements.

[CBR_rider]

Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723

I recently heard of a young/new cop who stopped a fella on a traffic violation. He handed over the permit without saying anything. The officer, not having seen a CCW permit before, took quite a while to realize what he was looking at. Once he figured it out, removed the guy from the car and disarmed him. The officer then looked up CCW laws, and told the guy he violated the terms because he did not verbal inform him he was armed.

The officer contacted the CCW office and had the guys permit revoked. Unfortunately, I did not hear of this until a few days later and was unable to correct it. I was able to educate the officer for future encounters but the damage was done.

So my advice would be to make sure the first words out of your mouth are, "Officer, I have to inform you I am a CCW holder and am currently armed with a loaded weapon." If you say it in a calm respectful manner, you should get a good response from the officer. After that, tell him where you keep the permit card and wait for his instructions to remove it. In my opinion, this is a good practice in order to keep both of you safe, and fullfill all your requirements.

That’s BS. Boot should be booted from LEO work for such an asinine response

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Have License, registration, insurance and Permit in hand and ready before the officer gets to you. I keep my stuff up in the overhead container that usually houses glasses or a garage remote so I am not digging around for papers and a wallet, Hands are always at or above steering wheel from the moment I get pulled over. I Keep the wallet up there while driving as well since my DL is in it. I have everything I need to hand the officer in that pocket and nothing else, ready to go.

Hand the papers to the officer, put both hands on the top of your steering wheel and state. "Sir, I have to inform you, I have an active Concealed Carry permit and am currently carrying, how would you like me to proceed?" Then just follow his directions keeping your hands on the steering wheel.

Oh, one more note. Never use the word GUN. Do not say my Gun is on me, The Gun is.., etc. GUN is a trigger word for cops, and if he has a partner moving up to the passenger side of your vehicle while you are talking to the officer and you say the word GUN, That officer could make the mistake in thinking his partner said GUN and go into Oh Sht! Mode. Or he could only hear you say Gun and assume you are threatening his partner. Just don't say GUN.

I did, however, see a police officer asked about this once online, I do not remember what state he worked in, but someone asked him if a CCWP holder should Inform him on a stop or not.
He acted like he would be offended by someone telling him they have a CCW, He said, I would be thinking why the FK is this person telling me that? as if he felt that it was a threat. Must be one of those states where Informing is not required. But In California let them know at first contact. Or as soon as you can get the sentence in.

Tha is just what I was instructed to do.

[esy]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy

Have License, registration, insurance and Permit in hand and ready before the officer gets to you. I keep my stuff up in the overhead container that usually houses glasses or a garage remote so I am not digging around for papers and a wallet, Hands are always at or above steering wheel from the moment I get pulled over. I Keep the wallet up there while driving as well since my DL is in it. I have everything I need to hand the officer in that pocket and nothing else, ready to go.

Hand the papers to the officer, put both hands on the top of your steering wheel and state. "Sir, I have to inform you, I have an active Concealed Carry permit and am currently carrying, how would you like me to proceed?" Then just follow his directions keeping your hands on the steering wheel.

Oh, one more note. Never use the word GUN. Do not say my Gun is on me, The Gun is.., etc. GUN is a trigger word for cops, and if he has a partner moving up to the passenger side of your vehicle while you are talking to the officer and you say the word GUN, That officer could make the mistake in thinking his partner said GUN and go into Oh Sht! Mode. Or he could only hear you say Gun and assume you are threatening his partner. Just don't say GUN.

I did, however, see a police officer asked about this once online, I do not remember what state he worked in, but someone asked him if a CCWP holder should Inform him on a stop or not.
He acted like he would be offended by someone telling him they have a CCW, He said, I would be thinking why the FK is this person telling me that? as if he felt that it was a threat. Must be one of those states where Informing is not required. But In California let them know at first contact. Or as soon as you can get the sentence in.

Tha is just what I was instructed to do.

So, title of thread asked for LEO responses only. From the way I read it, you are not a LEO.

I wouldn’t want you to do what you suggested and before I concluded the stop, I’d recommend you do it differently.

Just saying.

[CinnamonBear723]

Originally Posted by CBR_rider

That’s BS. Boot should be booted from LEO work for such an asinine response

I think it's our fault. He had never been told what to do or taught about CCW laws. None of these noobs are. I think it's a matter of education on our end. Once I schooled him up he realized what he had done was wrong.

They don't cover it in the academy, and we run across it rarely so I guess his Fto never covered it either.

[CBR_rider]

Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723

I think it's our fault. He had never been told what to do or taught about CCW laws. None of these noobs are. I think it's a matter of education on our end. Once I schooled him up he realized what he had done was wrong.

They don't cover it in the academy, and we run across it rarely so I guess his Fto never covered it either.

That’s definitely a failure at the academy... you talked with the dude; so you have a better feel for it than I but I think at any stage of the game reporting it to the CCW unit was just CS based on the post alone.

It does bring up a good point about mentioning it at least in FTO; I suppose that is one thing to add to “my” list of things I make sure I go over.

[CinnamonBear723]

Originally Posted by CBR_rider

That’s definitely a failure at the academy... you talked with the dude; so you have a better feel for it than I but I think at any stage of the game reporting it to the CCW unit was just CS based on the post alone.

It does bring up a good point about mentioning it at least in FTO; I suppose that is one thing to add to “my” list of things I make sure I go over.

Yea I definitely briefed the FTOs and FTO coordinators about it. Hopefully the message will get out. It doesn't surprise me they don't go over it in the academy. They just don't have time to with all the nonsense they gotta teach these days.

[code_blue]

I always chuckle at the internet folks that state, "Cops already know you have a CCW before they pull you over. They can look it up in their system."

POST should add LD (whatever number they're on): Dealing with CCW permit holders.

[P5Ret]

Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi

I always chuckle at the internet folks that state, "Cops already know you have a CCW before they pull you over. They can look it up in their system."

Yep and every car I ever pulled over was driven by the RO so that I could look at that up on the MDT, if it was actually available. Of course that only applies to the last half of my career after we got them in the cars.

[P5Ret]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy

Have License, registration, insurance and Permit in hand and ready before the officer gets to you. I keep my stuff up in the overhead container that usually houses glasses or a garage remote so I am not digging around for papers and a wallet, Hands are always at or above steering wheel from the moment I get pulled over. I Keep the wallet up there while driving as well since my DL is in it. I have everything I need to hand the officer in that pocket and nothing else, ready to go.

Hand the papers to the officer, put both hands on the top of your steering wheel and state. "Sir, I have to inform you, I have an active Concealed Carry permit and am currently carrying, how would you like me to proceed?" Then just follow his directions keeping your hands on the steering wheel.

Oh, one more note. Never use the word GUN. Do not say my Gun is on me, The Gun is.., etc. GUN is a trigger word for cops, and if he has a partner moving up to the passenger side of your vehicle while you are talking to the officer and you say the word GUN, That officer could make the mistake in thinking his partner said GUN and go into Oh Sht! Mode. Or he could only hear you say Gun and assume you are threatening his partner. Just don't say GUN.

I did, however, see a police officer asked about this once online, I do not remember what state he worked in, but someone asked him if a CCWP holder should Inform him on a stop or not.
He acted like he would be offended by someone telling him they have a CCW, He said, I would be thinking why the FK is this person telling me that? as if he felt that it was a threat. Must be one of those states where Informing is not required. But In California let them know at first contact. Or as soon as you can get the sentence in.

Tha is just what I was instructed to do.

So let me see if I have this straight? Reading this post http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1446017 that you updated on the 6/20, you don't even have a LTC, but you're offering advise on how someone should handle a traffic stop while carrying with no experience of your own to go by. What am I missing here?

OH wait someone instructed you on how to handle it, what is that persons background? Because once you start moving around in the car, any movement, it turns up the caution meter for me. Because all I can see from outside is you reaching into an overhead compartment.

[eta34]

Please don’t listen to the guy telling you to grab your license and insurance before we walk up. It’s absolutely horrible advice. Please sit and wait until we get there. Then, feel free to tell me about your CCW and where all of your paperwork is located.

Please, please, please do not start reaching around for paperwork without letting the officer know, even if it is in your visor. I specifically remember an academy scenario (20 years ago) where the driver had a revolver hidden up there.

[esy]

Originally Posted by eta34

Please don’t listen to the guy telling you to grab your license and insurance before we walk up. It’s absolutely horrible advice. Please sit and wait until we get there. Then, feel free to tell me about your CCW and where all of your paperwork is located.

Please, please, please do not start reaching around for paperwork without letting the officer know, even if it is in your visor. I specifically remember an academy scenario (20 years ago) where the driver had a revolver hidden up there.

Well, that guy isn’t even a LEO and thanks to P5Ret’s detective work, he isn’t even a CCW permit holder! Two strikes.

[code_blue]

That's probably because CCW instructors are notorious for spreading FUD. They fearmonger the heck out of their courses. Of course their quality of instruction is also pretty bad also.

Really, some of these people shouldn't be qualifying with their mentalities and lack of training or general firearms know-how. We're talking folks who are very likely to be imperfect self-defense or ND cases.

Still, everyone has a right to defend themselves. Whether or not they put themselves in bad situations is on them for believing the instructor's word as gospel and on the instructor for spreading FUD.

[yzErnie]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy

Have License, registration, insurance and Permit in hand and ready before the officer gets to you. I keep my stuff up in the overhead container that usually houses glasses or a garage remote so I am not digging around for papers and a wallet, Hands are always at or above steering wheel from the moment I get pulled over. I Keep the wallet up there while driving as well since my DL is in it. I have everything I need to hand the officer in that pocket and nothing else, ready to go.

Hand the papers to the officer, put both hands on the top of your steering wheel and state. "Sir, I have to inform you, I have an active Concealed Carry permit and am currently carrying, how would you like me to proceed?" Then just follow his directions keeping your hands on the steering wheel.

Oh, one more note. Never use the word GUN. Do not say my Gun is on me, The Gun is.., etc. GUN is a trigger word for cops, and if he has a partner moving up to the passenger side of your vehicle while you are talking to the officer and you say the word GUN, That officer could make the mistake in thinking his partner said GUN and go into Oh Sht! Mode. Or he could only hear you say Gun and assume you are threatening his partner. Just don't say GUN.

I did, however, see a police officer asked about this once online, I do not remember what state he worked in, but someone asked him if a CCWP holder should Inform him on a stop or not.
He acted like he would be offended by someone telling him they have a CCW, He said, I would be thinking why the FK is this person telling me that? as if he felt that it was a threat. Must be one of those states where Informing is not required. But In California let them know at first contact. Or as soon as you can get the sentence in.

Tha is just what I was instructed to do.

After that first sentence, I didn't even read anything else. WITHeck told you to do that?

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Originally Posted by esy

So, title of thread asked for LEO responses only. From the way I read it, you are not a LEO.

I wouldn’t want you to do what you suggested and before I concluded the stop, I’d recommend you do it differently.

Just saying.

I asked a cop at the range, that is exactly what he told me to do and how to do it and what to say and not say.

[CinnamonBear723]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy

I asked a cop at the range, that is exactly what he told me to do and how to do it and what to say and not say.

I think the concern is that your information is coming from unverified sources as opposed to straight from the horses mouth. Also, the word gun is not a bad word and does not scare all of us.

I've been pulled over a few times by various agencies and I've used the word gun without negative reaction. I will agree that firearm is a better choice but the word gun really isn't that bad.

[tomrkba]

I just do what you said even though I am in a no notify state and they can see my permit on their computer. I just hand them the permit OVER the license so they see it first. I tell them I have the carry permit and ask what they want to do. Never had an issue.

[code_blue]

It should go without saying that every situation is different. There is no "best" method, but there are certainly safe and bad methods.

Really, roll down your windows, dome lights on if it's dark, hands on the steering wheel and wait for contact and instructions. If you want to shut off your engine, you can, but if the officer wanted you to (they normally would) they'll tell you.

Besides, if the officer is accompanied by an FTO, help him/her learn. You can't do ALL the work for him/her now.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I would avoid yelling "AM I BEING DETAINED??" as they approach your vehicle.

[jmatt511]

Originally Posted by DNA

Windows rolled down, radio turned down/off, dome lights on (as applicable), hands on steering wheel.

A simple, "before I start reaching for anything, I am armed. I have a "insert favored phrase here for ltc/ccw, my firearm is located... How would you like me to proceed."

Doing this identifies that you are armed and have no intention of reaching for anything and allows the LEO to control the interaction to their satisfaction.

Dan

P.s. nothing is more terrible than something that happens due to lack of communication. Imagine reaching for your wallet/ID/ltc, having your shirt ride up and exposing a firearm somewhere near your hand and an over reaction occurring. From partner shouting out, "he's got a gun!"and finding a barrel screwed into the side of your head before you're able to explain or even worse?

Got it right the first time around. I do this every time (except the hands are through the steering wheel). Did this when I was on the job. do this now that I'm retired.

[RazoE]

Originally Posted by eta34

.... I specifically remember an academy scenario (20 years ago) where the driver had a revolver hidden up there.

And I remember one where it was a water pistol filled with ice water. The shock of being shot in the face with it is a memory that is still with me 35 years later.

[chsk9]

In my state we get CCW/CHL info on our in state plate return. Open carry is legal, as is having a loaded firearm laying on your seat. What happens here would be a code 33 in other states, so when traveling to states with reciprocity put it with your license.