How do LEO's view AW's in the general population?

[chris]

Originally Posted by yzernie

As with the majority of LEOs, I do not have a problem with someone owning a firearm. What I do have a problem with is owning them and not using good judgement and common sense. By that I mean allowing them to be stolen by leaving them on a desk and not locked in the safe right next to the desk, by not recording serial numbers so if they were to be stolen we could get them entered into the system right away, by getting all liquored up and handling firearms or any other situation where good judgement and common sense do not come into play.

That being said, I encourage gun ownership to the members of the community. I also believe CCW, unless convicted of certain crimes, should be allowed. If you abuse that CCW and the responsibilities that go with it, you lose it.

The AW education among the LEOs (especially the younger ones) is a continual struggle. Most of the new hires have (at least at my dept) no military experience, have little life experience and many still live at home with mommy and daddy. Guns were never a part of their lives like they were for us older guys. I regularly give briefing trainings and give cheat sheets to the patrol guys in case I am not around to use as a resource. I know I have made an impact just by the number of calls I get from the kids. They are getting educated, it's just a slow process.



I would adamantly disagree with you that justifiably defending yourself makes you a criminal. Justifiably being the key word.

glad to see that you are educating the new guys about AW's and firearms laws. this will help in the long run a better relationship with LE and citizens alike. keep up the good work.

[chris]

Originally Posted by eta34

Realize that while gun laws concern you the most, it does not concern LEO the most. Realize that during our day to day operations, calls involving a firearm are fairly rare. We are much more likely to deal with tenant/landlord disputes, traffic, domestic disputes, or drug cases than anything dealing with a firearm. As such, a LEO is much more likely to study/know things he deals with on a regular basis. Not an excuse, simply the reality.

i agree there are so many laws that you guys have to know and the rarety of interaction that you have calls with a firearm are rare. but i think education of the laws is a good thing. i do understand that you would be more fluent in the law of what you encounter most that being these types of incidents.

We are much more likely to deal with tenant/landlord disputes, traffic, domestic disputes, or drug cases.

[CAL.BAR]

Originally Posted by eta34

Couldn't care less about 'em. The good guys won't hurt me with them. The bad guys will steal them to hurt me. Laws don't work.

True and the rationale behind the gun grabbers is that if we ban them and ban them good they won't be in the hands of the "good guys" to get stolen and used against you. Right? Never mind the fact that a miniscule number of officers have ever come across AW's in the field and few yet have be shot at with them.

[CAL.BAR]

Originally Posted by yzernie

The AW education among the LEOs (especially the younger ones) is a continual struggle. Most of the new hires have (at least at my dept) no military experience, have little life experience and many still live at home with mommy and daddy. Guns were never a part of their lives like they were for us older guys. I regularly give briefing trainings and give cheat sheets to the patrol guys in case I am not around to use as a resource. I know I have made an impact just by the number of calls I get from the kids. They are getting educated, it's just a slow process.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! from me and all the guys here at CG.

[yzErnie]

Originally Posted by djandj

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! from me and all the guys here at CG.

You are welcome!! I know there are more of the CG LEO's who are working to educate the youngsters on the AW laws.

[Gator Monroe]

Originally Posted by yzernie

You are welcome!! I know there are more of the CG LEO's who are working to educate the youngsters on the AW laws.

Too bad you guy's cant educate them on how Great America was in the Post world war 2 period (Especially the 50's & early 60's before Murry the K brought the Beatles over the first time)

[chris]

Originally Posted by yzernie

You are welcome!! I know there are more of the CG LEO's who are working to educate the youngsters on the AW laws.

please keep doing this education is the best tool that we have and you guys can do that better than we can.

[veeklog]

Originally Posted by yzernie

You are welcome!! I know there are more of the CG LEO's who are working to educate the youngsters on the AW laws.

most of us think the AW laws in this state are pretty retarded. Most of the older guys I work with have had a lot of life experience and like AW's. We realize they are not only fun to shoot, but in tactical situations like serving warrants, they are a great tool to have. Why should the bad guys have better guns than we do when we hit a door? The problem is that many of us are as restricted as the common CG'er. We have to have BB unless we have AW exceptions or issued AW's through the agency. Most administrators don't like these guns, especially AW's, because of liabilty and political issues. The liability issues can be eliminated with better training, but the political issues is completely different animal.

The only good thing is that the day of hiring people w/o life experience is pretty much over. Two factor contribute to this: (1) people getting out of the military witha lot of life experience; and (2) a bad economy is pushing people with life experince into becoming LEO's. I can honestly say I was a dumb kid hired straight out of college 11 years ago, but those 3 years in uniform was a eye-opening experience. So when I went to O.I. 8 years ago I had the maturity to do my job of an investigator. The difference was that when I was new in either uniform or in O.I. I wanted to learn my job, and continue to still learn new tricks everyday, including all about OLL's. I am in the group of veteran LEO's that statistically, we are the ones to get killed in the line of duty because we get complacent in our everyday duties.So, when I catch myself doing something pretty retarded, I stop, evaluate why I did it, and remind myself to not do it anymore. I am my own worst critic!!

[626Tony]

I notice that the sheriffs dept has more people skills and dealing with the public. Could it be that they see the worse of the worse in the jails and courts? As opposed to city LEO's where they are thrown out into the public not knowing how to deal with certain situations. I am a civilian and the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Dept always hears my side first and I can tell renders a decision to let me go or cite me ~ if im in the wrong in in the wrong but city cops like lets sat umm Ontario do they have the same training and people skills after the academy??? can a LEO plz answer??

[yzErnie]

Originally Posted by Gator Monroe

Too bad you guy's cant educate them on how Great America was in the Post world war 2 period (Especially the 50's & early 60's before Murry the K brought the Beatles over the first time)

I am a cop, not a history or economics teacher. I teach them as I described above...as it pertains to real time and real life cop work.

[Stoner]

There have been a number of comments here about the higher ranking officers in the department being anti-gun.

One thing to remember is the COP is an elected/appointed and very political position. And the opinion of the COP does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the rank and file line officer that work for him or her. However, most of the Deputy Chiefs, Captains and LT’s will generally fall in line with the line the COP is putting forward.

[696k]

As an old guy with lots of years on the street and a few more to go, I personally have never had a problem with legally owned AW's. If I recall Patrick Purdy the Stockton shooter was a 5150 and never should have had a firearm to begin with...but instead of attacking the problem with the law our fearless (clueless) legislators made a new law that said what was once good was now bad and therefore all the good people must register...amazing how many didn't.

I try to show our young officers that sometimes it just may be the citizen with a gun who comes running to help you because your backup just isn't close. I am a firm believer that all things flow from the 2nd Ammendment. With out it I doubt we would have the other ammendments we enjoy. But many of our younger officers have not been raised in a "gun" culture having grown up in a world where gun owners are all bad and nobody but LE and military should have guns. That mentality scares the crap out of me.

It has been my experience (29 years now) that badguys use whats available. I have never taken an HK 91 or Colt Hbar off of a bad guy. Ravens, Loricans, stolen Ruger 1022's and an SKS or two but not a majority of the guns that have been banned. Do I feel safer? No. A silly law is NOT going to stop a badguy. That's why they are badguys...

To any who read this I would say purchase and built your Ca. compliant (how silly is that?) AR and make sure it is pointed where it needs to be when it needs to be. NO cop worth his or her salt will tell you we will be there in your time of need. Statistics say we won't. We are reactionary, it is the bane of our existance. We would much rather hunt the badguy but there are so many other things that take our time. We will get there after the smoke has cleared. And hopefully through that smoke we will see you the Goodguy/Goodgal standing tall while the badguy is DRT. (dead right there)

Personally I am not worried so much about the "Red Dawn" scenario but what about a major earthquake here? The system will shut down. Let me say that again, the "system" will shut down. If it's big and it's bad you are on your own. The Govt. will get there...eventaually. Until then it is up to you to do what must be done. My city has over a million in daytime population. There are less than 360 of us and thats if every single officer shows up all at the same time...it isnt going to happen.

With all that I highly encourage each of you to own a firearm. If an AW is not your bag, get a shotgun or a handgun or something...do it legal and do it right. Don't give those that wish to destroy your right any opportunity to use you as an example of what is wrong with gun owners. Make the plans now to be prepared because when the wolf comes chances are there won't be a sheepdog close by.

Just some thoughts from a guy on the wall.

[yzErnie]

696k,
Very well put. I'm 30+ in and just a couple left to go. The youngsters you mention and the mentality they possess scare the hell out of me too. Most are good kids willing to learn but that Little League mentality (you're a winner even if you are a dork) just makes my skin crawl!!

Old dogs like us must keep educating the youngsters. I know that was what I wanted as a pup, to have the guys who know to be the ones who educated me. Most of these kids will make us proud. :thumb

[Ron-Solo]

Originally Posted by tony45

I notice that the sheriffs dept has more people skills and dealing with the public. Could it be that they see the worse of the worse in the jails and courts? As opposed to city LEO's where they are thrown out into the public not knowing how to deal with certain situations. I am a civilian and the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Dept always hears my side first and I can tell renders a decision to let me go or cite me ~ if im in the wrong in in the wrong but city cops like lets sat umm Ontario do they have the same training and people skills after the academy??? can a LEO plz answer??

As a 31 year member of the LASD, I did 2 1/2 years working custody before hitting the streets. It cave me a chance to mature, since I was fresh out of college, and I learned how the crooks behaved. I've worked alongside many other law enforcement officers and many work just as well with the public. Our Department has gone to great lenghts to teach our young deputies how to deal with the public. Sometimes it seems like we don't do well, but I think overall we do a pretty good job. When I was an FTO, I always tried to teach my trainees to treat people like they would want a family member treated. That doesn't mean you have to be soft or ineffective in what you do, just do the right thing and treat people fairly.

Just remeber, LEOs are people too. We have good days and bad, and our response can vary from day to day. I've had to tell someone their newborn baby was dead, then 20 minutes later investigate a child abuse case where the parents were so strung out they couldn't even remember how many kids they had. Kind of messes with your mind a little and sometimes it takes a little while to get back on track.

I love my job, but looking forward to retirement in 2 1/2 years. Time to pass the reigns to the next generation and hope we did our part in training them.

[bluestaterebel]

Originally Posted by tony45

I notice that the sheriffs dept has more people skills and dealing with the public. Could it be that they see the worse of the worse in the jails and courts? As opposed to city LEO's where they are thrown out into the public not knowing how to deal with certain situations. I am a civilian and the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Dept always hears my side first and I can tell renders a decision to let me go or cite me ~ if im in the wrong in in the wrong but city cops like lets sat umm Ontario do they have the same training and people skills after the academy??? can a LEO plz answer??

just curious, how many leo encounters have you had?

[CaliTheKid]

Originally Posted by tony45

I notice that the sheriffs dept has more people skills and dealing with the public. Could it be that they see the worse of the worse in the jails and courts? As opposed to city LEO's where they are thrown out into the public not knowing how to deal with certain situations. I am a civilian and the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Dept always hears my side first and I can tell renders a decision to let me go or cite me ~ if im in the wrong in in the wrong but city cops like lets sat umm Ontario do they have the same training and people skills after the academy??? can a LEO plz answer??

I get that a lot from people who have dealt with LAPD prior to moving into an LASD area. They feel we give better customer service.

[bluestaterebel]

Originally Posted by CaliTheKid

I get that a lot from people who have dealt with LAPD prior to moving into an LASD area. They feel we give better customer service.

thats intersting because lapd has gone so politically correct. i have had the opposite experience. i usually hear, the sheriffs dont mess around. i mean lasd still walks around with their streamlights that the lapd is not allowed to have.

[sgtbuck]

Originally Posted by 696k

As an old guy with lots of years on the street and a few more to go, I personally have never had a problem with legally owned AW's. If I recall Patrick Purdy the Stockton shooter was a 5150 and never should have had a firearm to begin with...but instead of attacking the problem with the law our fearless (clueless) legislators made a new law that said what was once good was now bad and therefore all the good people must register...amazing how many didn't.

I try to show our young officers that sometimes it just may be the citizen with a gun who comes running to help you because your backup just isn't close. I am a firm believer that all things flow from the 2nd Ammendment. With out it I doubt we would have the other ammendments we enjoy. But many of our younger officers have not been raised in a "gun" culture having grown up in a world where gun owners are all bad and nobody but LE and military should have guns. That mentality scares the crap out of me.

It has been my experience (29 years now) that badguys use whats available. I have never taken an HK 91 or Colt Hbar off of a bad guy. Ravens, Loricans, stolen Ruger 1022's and an SKS or two but not a majority of the guns that have been banned. Do I feel safer? No. A silly law is NOT going to stop a badguy. That's why they are badguys...

To any who read this I would say purchase and built your Ca. compliant (how silly is that?) AR and make sure it is pointed where it needs to be when it needs to be. NO cop worth his or her salt will tell you we will be there in your time of need. Statistics say we won't. We are reactionary, it is the bane of our existance. We would much rather hunt the badguy but there are so many other things that take our time. We will get there after the smoke has cleared. And hopefully through that smoke we will see you the Goodguy/Goodgal standing tall while the badguy is DRT. (dead right there)

Personally I am not worried so much about the "Red Dawn" scenario but what about a major earthquake here? The system will shut down. Let me say that again, the "system" will shut down. If it's big and it's bad you are on your own. The Govt. will get there...eventaually. Until then it is up to you to do what must be done. My city has over a million in daytime population. There are less than 360 of us and thats if every single officer shows up all at the same time...it isnt going to happen.

With all that I highly encourage each of you to own a firearm. If an AW is not your bag, get a shotgun or a handgun or something...do it legal and do it right. Don't give those that wish to destroy your right any opportunity to use you as an example of what is wrong with gun owners. Make the plans now to be prepared because when the wolf comes chances are there won't be a sheepdog close by.

Just some thoughts from a guy on the wall.

Very good post I totally agree......

[CaliTheKid]

Originally Posted by bluestaterebel

thats intersting because lapd has gone so politically correct. i have had the opposite experience. i usually hear, the sheriffs dont mess around. i mean lasd still walks around with their streamlights that the lapd is not allowed to have.

Its less about taking care of business--cause we don't mess around-- but more about polite attitude-- and not to diss the lapd-- its just what I have heard from the public.

[Pvt. Cowboy]

Originally Posted by CaliTheKid

People don't lock up their guns, they get stolen. People do lock up their guns, they don't. Stop trying to make excuses for poor judgement and lack of responsibility of ownership. You don't lock up your gun, you are part of cycle of arming criminals.

Precisely.

It's the 'gun control' I am in favor of: Keeping your stuff locked up a safe.

Do that, and the crooks will be forced to make 'handguns' from sawn-off Ruger 10-22s and zip guns made of galvanized pipe with a nail poking through the end-cap.

It's idiots who get their home burglarized that stored their Sig-Sauer in a shoebox in the closet while they're at work who are most responsible for inadvertently arming violent criminals.

[Swatter911]

Yzernie and I work for the same agency, we're probably the two biggest "gun guys" on our department when it comes to AWs and educating our coworkers. The new kids are easy, they soak it up, you just have to be patient and teach them well. The real trick is educating the higher ups. They live and work in the administrative world, one that is dominated by law suits, guys getting into trouble and politics. It colors their perceptions and drives a different thought process on certain aspects of things like gun laws. It's often times difficult to get them to shift their perception and understand how their policy decision impacts citizens and line staff.

I don't think the average cop on the street thinks he has much to fear from Armed Joe Citizen. The laws are complex and we do our best to educate our guys and gals everyday so that they are making the right decision when they stop you for that tail light out on your way back from the range.

And yes, we all favor responsible gun ownership. They all should be used safely and stored securely to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

[lrdchivalry]

Originally Posted by jwest

I am wondering how LEO's view the OLL Book produced by the folks at Calguns - I think it is great. The letter from the Sacramento Police Dept. is especially helpful - here is the link:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...+reference+law

Hope this isn't a repeat as I haven't read the entire thread.

Thanks in advance,
jwest

As a federal leo I think it's a great resource. I have 2 copies in my personal library and the pdf saved on my computer.

I am a firm believer in right to carry and believe that all of our other rights are defended by the 2A. Loss of our 2A will result in the loss of our other rights.

[1*mike]

Originally Posted by desmark6

Look at the last 2 shootings where multiple officers were killed with assault weapons, kinda proves that bans/laws/restrictions don't do much to keep bad people from being bad.

If you are a law abiding/sane person I have no issues with you owning whatever ya like to shoot. Imagine if there hadn't have been a civilian to lend assault weapons to LAPD during the infamous north hollywood shootout!

true...but all it takes is one 459 Res. and another rifle that will cut through your vest is on the street. I have mixed feelings

[1*mike]

Originally Posted by Pvt. Cowboy

Precisely.

It's the 'gun control' I am in favor of: Keeping your stuff locked up a safe.

Do that, and the crooks will be forced to make 'handguns' from sawn-off Ruger 10-22s and zip guns made of galvanized pipe with a nail poking through the end-cap.

It's idiots who get their home burglarized that stored their Sig-Sauer in a shoebox in the closet while they're at work who are most responsible for inadvertently arming violent criminals.

Could not be more true...

[ca1903]

Guarding our own firearms is certainly very important. But the bad guys can always get their hands on guns.

I grew up in Taiwan where the gun was banned since 1950. Even in the military, you have to count all the cases after the range shooting, NOT ONE LESS. But what do the gangsters have?

40 years ago, gangsters had samurai sword vs the police baton.
30 years ago, the criminals attacked the sentry to get the military rifles.
Now, the gangsters had Uzi and all other powerful ones smuggled in and over powered the police still.

when there is $, the criminals would get hands on the tool. We the law-abiding citizens certainly should not "help" them through our negligence. On the other hand, we better be ready to protect ourselves till the cavalry arrive.

[7222 Hawker]

Originally Posted by Synergy

Many LEOs are ill informed. I'm a fireman and went into my local police station, while I was on duty in my uniform. I saw a LEO magazine on the counter talking about .223 rifles for patrol duty. It had the AR's, HK 416, Mini 14 etc... I showed the pic of the AR to the Lt. and asked if I had this what would you do?

He said we would take you in.

I said "What if I am California legal" We will still take you in, run you and the gun. I have the PC in my gun bag explaining the legality. His statement blew my mind. "Thats OK we will find something to nail you with!"

Now I don't know if he was just trying to be cavalier since I was a round-a-bout coworker. That statement is just wrong.

Thats because you asked an Lt. Ask a beat cop next time an they will probably know the laws.