I turn my GLOCK 20SF 10MM into a Carbine- Mech Tech..Wow.

[Oceanbob]

This is kind of long but for me it's an interesting subject. :-)

I love 10MM and have been reloading 10 for years. My favorite handguns are GLOCKs in 10MM. Glock 20SF and my Glock 29.

10MM out of a GLOCK handgun has more energy at 100 yards than a .45ACP has at the muzzle. This is truly a powerful handgun; think of 10MM as a .357 magnum only larger diameter. We can buy hot 10 or make it ourselves and it's really not problem getting 1300 FPS and over 600 foot pounds of energy.
Because I own and possess preban 15 round magazines for my GLOCK 20, I have a lot of firepower at hand; all in a fairly compact package.

10MM doesn't bounce off a windshield like 9 does. It moves on through. With the proper bullet weight and shape, 10MM is an excellent hunting and woods carry gun. A Glock 20/29 will take care of you and take care of business.

In my opinion if you're going to run 10MM you should invest in reloading. It's nice to have the ability to manufacture ammo for a fraction of todays retail price.

Weight times speed is what foot pounds of energy is all about. High foot pounds translate into greater penetration and greater expansion (of hollow point designs). Since we usually load 10MM rounds at close to MAX PRESSURE already, the only thing we can do to increase SPEED is a longer barrel. Since we live in Kalifornistan with blanket restrictions on so called assault weapons, 50 caliber rifles and short barreled rifles (SBR), the only choice we have is a CARBINE that meets the law.

So I bought a MECH TECH Glock conversion unit. Ordered it December 29th and got it on March 5th. A bit over two months. Total cost was $418 and change.. Delivered to my front door. This unit is really high quality.!

http://www.mechtechsys.com/index.php

To be legal here:

The State requires an overall length of 30 inches. No folding stock. No evil features. The MECH TECH CCU (carbine conversion unit) is offered with a 16 inch barrel and a fixed stock that gives an overall length of just over 33 inches.

Since the Conversion unit is only an upper, you can buy it over the internet.

It is California Legal? Yes. From the Mech-tech website:

I live in California - can I legally purchase a CCU ?

Yes - recent CA court decisions and the 'california code of regulations' [CCR 11 paragraph 5469 (a)] allow a properly configured CCU to be legal.

'Properly Configured' means a magazine which requires a 'tool' to release it and a min. overall length of 30". 10 ROUND OR LESS MAGAZINE.

From a Federal Law prospective:

We have here a definitive ruling from the BATF - when you assemble a pistol lower to the CCU upper you create a legal rifle and when you remove the pistol lower and reassemble the pistol you are NOT creating an SBR (short barreled rifle). All the assembling/disassembling is totally legal from the view of the BATF. The ruling is dated 25 July 2011 - here is the link to the 4 page ruling: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2011-4.pdf


As usual the first 3+ pages are legal obfuscation rather than just stating things in plain English. The real meat of the ruling relative to the CCU is at the bottom of the last page in the first 2 paragraphs beginning with the words 'held further'. Also, in the NRA publication 'American Rifleman' Nov 2011 issue, page 90 (ILA Report column) the following excerpt appears:
"The ruling also states that a pistol can be made into a rifle (for example by adding a long barrel and a shoulder stock), and then turned back into a pistol, without making an NFA 'firearm' " (not in California however; here we have specific laws against a removeable stock, longer barrel and SBRs in general. But this carbine upper isn't a SBR, so this does not apply to the Mech Tech).


Since the State doesn't like pistol grips we must install a bullet button to the GLOCK FRAME. To make a bullet button for a GLOCK FRAME you need to file down the normal mag release button:

(buy a spare one for only $4)



Another California man named David has made numerous YouTube Videos on 10MM ammo speeds. Testing all available ammo thru his CRONO. An epic work really.

He bought a Mech Tech and his video shows just how accurate and powerful this weapon can be.



The increase in speed and energy is amazing! See how hard hitting and zippy those hits are? wow.

For example running some Underwood Ammo in 135 grain (nosler hollow points, which I already reload) you can expect:

Normal glock barrel: 1558 FPS
6 inch KKM barrel: 1735 FPS
MechTech 16 inch: 2020 FPS

Other loadings and weights go up considerably in speed as well.

Incredible! This really puts the 10MM bullet at incredible speeds and makes for a good long range Carbine. I rather like handling this Weapon. It is easy to shoulder and is easy to aim. I installed an old MILLET red dot on her.

I really like the idea of having a BUG OUT or GET HOME rig that includes a GLOCK 20SF handgun with a companion Carbine equipped with a Red Dot and using the SAME magazines and ammo. Simple and effective. Small and handy.

There are Interchangeable parts on either frame. (You can use a GLOCK 21 .45ACP Frame if you want; identical to the GLOCK 20 frame) This could come in handy for a Survival Combo Package. Being out and about in a SHTF situation I want the ability to rebuild my weapons with a stick.

Keep in mind that the GLOCK 20 also runs .40 caliber without a barrel change. I've run 500 rounds of .40 thru my G20 with the stock barrel. No problems. Others have done this as well. It just adds another option for ammo out in NEVER NEVER LAND during a crisis.

This entire package can be stowed in a locked case in the trunk. Ready when you are. Survival hunting would be easy with a red-dot carbine 10MM. For a car-load of two legged gang members (like those that roamed around LA during the Riots, shooting and robbing people)..this combo would handle steel car doors with ease. The Carbine equipped with a proper sling can be carried over/under one arm with a Poncho or coat adding cover when walking. These are situations we should think about. Power in a small package.

When I finish up my sling and some other mods a Range Report will be forthcoming.

(I am thinking about going totally featureless so I can use and drop my normal capacity magazines. This would require a wall behind the grip...let me sleep on that idea for a while.....how about a aluminum mag well with a TIG welded vertical plate welded on the backside..?....hmm...just rambling boys)

Here are some photos. (pre-mod)







Thanks for reading.!

[Pistolgrip Pump]

It looks like a paintball gun! Maybe I should look into 10mm..is it that much more powerful than a .45?

[parksmart]

Great and informative post. Congrats on a fine carbine.

[joefrank64k]

Very cool...I really like my G29SF. Now I want a G20SF and this carbine set up!

[dfletcher]

I have a Mech Tech with a dedicated 1911 frame - bought an "economical" Federal Ordnance alloy "frame only" in a PPT a few years back and (except for cleaning) it stays on the unit. So long as the OAL is +30" I don't think a folding or adjustable stock is an issue in CA, although with a folder the thing simply may not make 30".

I know some have questioned whether the ATF reconfiguration OK is negated by CA law, perhaps a line or two from someone who knows more than me would be helpful.

I've heard that Mech Tech is or has been trying to put out a rimfire version upper.

[mleroux21]

Looking good! Nice Blaster.

[40SWGlock]

I want to see a closeup of the bulletbutton. I have a glock 20sf , maybe something to look into.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by dfletcher

I know some have questioned whether the ATF reconfiguration OK is negated by CA law, perhaps a line or two from someone who knows more than me would be helpful.

Even though the BATFE has changed their position and now state that handgun -> rifle -> handgun is legal, CA DOJ still holds the old ATF viewpoint that handgun -> rifle -> handgun = SBR.

Current CA DOJ viewpoint:
Handgun made into a rifle, is now a rifle.
That rifle made into a handgun, is now a weapon made from a rifle (which is a SBR) [PC 17170(c)].

[only10x]

nice toy. +1 for BOB

[sfbay]

I prefer shot placement over hard kicking calibers.

But, having said that your post was awesome.

I normally don't read long posts but i couldn't stop. It was informative and way cool. A subject i haven't really approached.

+1

[CAGLS]

I was considering my first Glock to be the 20 or SF and wasn't sure I could run .40sw and 10mm. I guess I'll be getting one now.

[sealocan]

nicely written, quality post.
thank you

[BoJackUSMC]

Nice.. good info.. thanks..

[Shrubmaster]

The setup looks badass except for that buttstock. That thing has to go. You should adapt an uzi stock for that puppy.

[walmart_ar15]

to keep it compact, can it use a barrel < 16" and lose the stock? Shoot it like AR pistols with the sling? As a pistol, no need to worry about 10 rd lock and pis > rif > pis issues

[Raider888]

WOW!!!

[Zedrek]

Damn you Bob, now I need to work some overtime so I can get one.

[Whitefang]

Great write up an really informative too. Have fun with your new toy

[trigger945]

Wow! Aint that nice? A Glock carbine! And in 10mm! Good one OP!

[Moto]

Oh man!
That is awesomeness!

[bigbadktm]

like the .357 can shoot .38, the 10mm can shoot .40, but not vice versa. I do like that you have versatility in ammo, just not a huge fan of the glock. Are there other manufacturers of 10mm pistols?

[Zedrek]

Originally Posted by bigbadktm

like the .357 can shoot .38, the 10mm can shoot .40, but not vice versa. I do like that you have versatility in ammo, just not a huge fan of the glock. Are there other manufacturers of 10mm pistols?

Not any that are easy to find here in California. I like my Smith & Wesson 1006.

[optimus-primer]

Very cool Oceanbob! This is something that I have thought about doing myself. Looks like a great little zombie hunter too! LOL

Would you mind laying some physics on me? G20 vs G21.

Was told a G20 can be converted to shoot 45acp with a drop in barrel. ( please correct me if I'm wrong, gun store "I'm pretty sure statement" info)
Guessing G21 mags would be required.

Can a G21 do the same with a barrel and mags? (convert to 10mm)

As far as the G20 shooting 40, same 10mm-g20 barrel and mags?

Sorry if my questions are old and bothersome, glock conversions are rather new to me.

Thanks! Robert

[Woody559]

Nice detailed informational post, makes me want to buy a 10mm now, thanks.

[OC_Gunner]

The G20 can be converted to .40, .357sig, & 9X25 dillon. I know a lot of guys say they shoot .40 out of the same 10mm barrel but I'd be a little leary of the potential headspace issue resulting from the different case lengths. As Bob mentioned, you wouldn't worry about headspacing if you were in trouble and needed to fire off a few rounds of .40S&W you have laying around.

Converting the G20 to .45acp would require a new upper (build a new one or swap out a G21 upper).

I'm not sure what options are available to convert the G21 as I don't own one!

**I'm somewhat new to this so whatever I've typed here is based on a couple hours of internet research the last few months**

[OC_Gunner]

Nice looking rig Bob.

[Write Winger]

If you didn't attach the stock, you might still need the mag lock and 10rd limit. The longer barrel with the forearm may be considered a "barrel shroud" per CA handgun AW laws.

It would be badass if that wasn't the case and you could use std mag release and std mags.

Any legal beagles want to jump in?

[JeremyS]

Even though the magazine goes inside of the pistol grip, you still need the lock (bullet button)? The pistol grip is still a feature even though the magazine isn't inserted somewhere else on the gun (a la AR-15 or Tec-9, etc)?

[Nor*Cal]

Sweet rig. Thanks for the informative thread.

I'm curious about the above question from JeremyS.

[DRAB_81]

Just when I think you have all the 10mm glock toys one can possess, you "one up" yourself. Strong work Bob, I'd be interested in some chrono comparisons between the G20 & G20 Mechtech. Oh, and as for my offer to be adopted as your adult son, it still stands...

[Ardbeg]

Very cool.
I've been looking for something like this...

Mike

[Oceanbob]

Originally Posted by JeremyS

Even though the magazine goes inside of the pistol grip, you still need the lock (bullet button)? The pistol grip is still a feature even though the magazine isn't inserted somewhere else on the gun (a la AR-15 or Tec-9, etc)?

Yes, the pistol grip is an evil feature and you will need a 'bullet button' and use only 10 round magazines.

If I negate the pistol grip with a 'wall' behind so I can't wrap my thumb around the backside of the grip, and keep all the other evil features OFF the weapon (Featureless) then I can run with my normal capacity magazines (more than 10 rounds) with no bullet button required. Kind of like owning a Mini_14 or a featureless AR and using your legally owned preban magazines and no bullet button.

Iam trying to scheme up some ideas on that subject...

Since it's a RIFLE we must follow the FLOW CHART.

I plan on keeping the GLOCK LOWER on permanently and making it a dedicated RIFLE. The G20SF Lower I have on her now is one I bought from GLOCKMEISTER.COM and has no upper. I already have a normal GLOCK20SF handgun.

[Oceanbob]

Originally Posted by DRAB_81

Just when I think you have all the 10mm glock toys one can possess, you "one up" yourself. Strong work Bob, I'd be interested in some chrono comparisons between the G20 & G20 Mechtech. Oh, and as for my offer to be adopted as your adult son, it still stands...

Here ya go.!....

Same guy, David (who lives here in California) did a good test.

1200 foot pounds of energy....

[fendter]

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15

to keep it compact, can it use a barrel < 16" and lose the stock? Shoot it like AR pistols with the sling? As a pistol, no need to worry about 10 rd lock and pis > rif > pis issues

I'm wondering the same. If you don't attach a buttstock it should technically still be a pistol.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by sfbay

I prefer shot placement over hard kicking calibers.

But, having said that your post was awesome.

I normally don't read long posts but i couldn't stop. It was informative and way cool. A subject i haven't really approached.

+1

All the Mech Techs are pretty easy on recoil. They're blowback operated with a pretty heavy spring and bolt. You mostly feel (and hear) the bolt slapping back & forth.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by fendter

I'm wondering the same. If you don't attach a buttstock it should technically still be a pistol.

Mech Tech sells uppers with no buttstock attached. Install a handgun scope on the thing and I suppose you'd have a neat long barreled semi auto pistol with no need for a BB. But I think we get into "AOW" definitions and whether the forward part of the upper is a "shroud covering the barrel".

PITA to live here, ain't it?

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Write Winger

If you didn't attach the stock, you might still need the mag lock and 10rd limit. The longer barrel with the forearm may be considered a "barrel shroud" per CA handgun AW laws.

It would be badass if that wasn't the case and you could use std mag release and std mags.

Any legal beagles want to jump in?

The forward portion would be considered a "barrel shroud" and a "second handgrip", therefore it will still need a maglock & 10 round magazine to be CA legal as a handgun.

Originally Posted by JeremyS

Even though the magazine goes inside of the pistol grip, you still need the lock (bullet button)? The pistol grip is still a feature even though the magazine isn't inserted somewhere else on the gun (a la AR-15 or Tec-9, etc)?

Because of the "barrel shroud" and "second handgrip" features, it will still need to be a fixed 10 round or less magazine semi-auto pistol.

Originally Posted by fendter

I'm wondering the same. If you don't attach a buttstock it should technically still be a pistol.

If the barrel length is 16" or greater, then CA no longer considers is a "handgun" because it no longer meets CA's definition of a "handgun".

Originally Posted by dfletcher

Mech Tech sells uppers with no buttstock attached. Install a handgun scope on the thing and I suppose you'd have a neat long barreled semi auto pistol with no need for a BB. But I think we get into "AOW" definitions and whether the forward part of the upper is a "shroud covering the barrel".

It won't be classified as an AOW under the Feds.
BATFE has stated that it is legal to have a horiztonal forward grip and/or an angled forward grip on a Title 1 handgun.

However, the forward portion would be considered a "barrel shroud" and a "second handgrip". Which would make it an assault weapon, if it is semi-auto and uses detachable magazines.

Therefore, as a semi-auto pistol, it will still need a maglock and 10 round or less magazine.

[SJgunguy24]

Originally Posted by optimus-primer

Very cool Oceanbob! This is something that I have thought about doing myself. Looks like a great little zombie hunter too! LOL

Would you mind laying some physics on me? G20 vs G21.

Was told a G20 can be converted to shoot 45acp with a drop in barrel. ( please correct me if I'm wrong, gun store "I'm pretty sure statement" info)
Guessing G21 mags would be required.

Can a G21 do the same with a barrel and mags? (convert to 10mm)

As far as the G20 shooting 40, same 10mm-g20 barrel and mags?

Sorry if my questions are old and bothersome, glock conversions are rather new to me.

Thanks! Robert

The 21 is basically a barrel and mag swap from shooting 10mm. The G20 needs a new upper to run 45 do to the hole is the slide being too small for the 45 barrel to fit through.
Also 10mm is on par with a 41 mag for power.
This has alwayd been my dream SHTF set up. If the op goes featureless he could get the Arrendondo mag extensions and with one in the pipe have a cool 20 rounds of 10mm justice waiting to be dispensed.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by SJgunguy24

If the op goes featureless he could get the Arrendondo mag extensions and with one in the pipe have a cool 20 rounds of 10mm justice waiting to be dispensed.

Or go with the TDI KRISS mag extensions for 34 rounds of 10mm fun.
The +17 round Glock 21 mag extension, gets you around +19 rounds on a Glock 20 magazine. (so i've been told by friend in AZ).

[ArmedCMT]

Awesome write up OP!! Ive been wanting a mechtech for a while now but everyone i talked to about it told me it was a bad idea. One person told me even just owning it could get me in trouble. If this is not the case then im ordering one asap. Any thoughts on putting it on one of those aftermarket metal 80% glock frames? I would rather not have to buy a whole pistol but its my understanding that i cant just buy the frame without the top. Can i just slap my G35 top on a donor frame before the ppt?