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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #321  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:49 PM
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Default Safety Concern

I just had the opportunity to examine the Hellfighter mod kit (a very clever solution) on a rifle and realized that with this fixed magazine hardware, a rifle can be fired with the upper cracked open. I could definitely see the possibly of this happening by accident.
Has anyone actually fired a rifle with the upper partially open? What did or would happen?
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  #322  
Old 07-13-2018, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy View Post
I just had the opportunity to examine the Hellfighter mod kit (a very clever solution) on a rifle and realized that with this fixed magazine hardware, a rifle can be fired with the upper cracked open. I could definitely see the possibly of this happening by accident.
Has anyone actually fired a rifle with the upper partially open? What did or would happen?
The BCG would either hit the receiver extension and stop, or it would get bound up by the misalignment and interrupt the cycling. Or it might even cycle just fine, depending on how far the upper is pivoted.

It *probably* wouldn't be catastrophic, if that's what you're asking, but it could certain cause a lot of wear on the BCG and/or receivers, and it *could* potentially break the receiver and cause injury. And if it somehow fired with the BCG all the way above the lower receiver extension, the BCG could hit you in the face pretty dang hard (squarely in the eye, in fact, if you are still shouldering the rifle when it happens). But I don't think it's possible to fire when it's pivoted that high.

At any rate, with any of these action-opening fixed-mag devices, it's always best to put the safety on before you pull the takedown pin. When you're manhandling the now-separated receivers and the empty and fresh magazines it's really easy to accidentally hit the trigger at the wrong time. It's a very real safety issue that is hardly ever talked about for some reason, everyone is always more worried about dealing with double-feeds in these guns.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 07-13-2018 at 1:19 PM..
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  #323  
Old 07-13-2018, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post

At any rate, with any of these action-opening fixed-mag devices, it's always best to put the safety on before you pull the takedown pin. When you're manhandling the separate receivers and the magazines it's really easy to accidentally hit the trigger at the wrong time. It's a very real safety issue that is hardly ever talked about for some reason, everyone is always more worried about dealing with double-feeds in these guns.


YES YES and YES! Itís not even funny how many people operate an AR without using the safety.




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  #324  
Old 07-13-2018, 9:47 PM
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I installed a hellfighter kit for a good friend and was not impressed.

His will not fire with it cracked (if it did, it would be a single shot, then done- maybe for good).

The takedown button design is horrid. It works well enough to rotate it to crack the upper. But God help you if you push it out to pivot the upper open.

It tends to rotate or pivot, allowing the detent pin to pop out into the cut recess, locking it out until you remove the stock and slide out the detent pin.
They have a guide groove which is not deep enough to keep it from rotating wherever it wants on removal.


Of all the solutions I've tried or installed, I like the FC hook. It's cheap ($36), and easily port-loads with the strip loader tool they sell. It also works quite well, and doesn't compromise function. Do use a short 10 rounder with removable base in case of jams.

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  #325  
Old 07-14-2018, 6:00 AM
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I solved my issues with the Juggernaut jumping the detent pin, by changing the way you pull their detent pin out. You can’t just pull it straight out like you would a normal takedown pin, otherwise the forward tension on the detent pin will cause it to jump the track every time. You have to adopt a new method of applying lot of pressure to the back of the takedown pin as you pull it out, that forces the detent pin to stay up into the receiver as you pull the pin out, versus riding in(and most likely jumping) the groove.

I was having the same issue until I changed my technique, and haven’t had it happen again. That, and keep the Juggernaut pin and receiver holes lubed VERY well.
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  #326  
Old 07-23-2018, 4:41 PM
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Anyone installed a 33.3 Tactical cal catch, but was still able to release the magazine without having to separate the upper and lower receiver? If you did, what steps or solutions did you take? 33.3 Tactical seems unresponsive.
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  #327  
Old 07-23-2018, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saki302 View Post
I installed a hellfighter kit for a good friend and was not impressed.

His will not fire with it cracked (if it did, it would be a single shot, then done- maybe for good).

The takedown button design is horrid. It works well enough to rotate it to crack the upper. But God help you if you push it out to pivot the upper open.

It tends to rotate or pivot, allowing the detent pin to pop out into the cut recess, locking it out until you remove the stock and slide out the detent pin.
They have a guide groove which is not deep enough to keep it from rotating wherever it wants on removal.


Of all the solutions I've tried or installed, I like the FC hook. It's cheap ($36), and easily port-loads with the strip loader tool they sell. It also works quite well, and doesn't compromise function. Do use a short 10 rounder with removable base in case of jams.

-Dave
You mention "His will not fire with it cracked". I'm curious, How did you come to that conclusion? Did you guys actually try it? or are you assuming/guess/took some scientific measurement?

It would be good to have this answered.
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  #328  
Old 07-25-2018, 12:48 PM
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my thread is back up and has been moved here

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1428078

We have launched Hyperswitch and the BRS Buffer Receiver Stop as well.

info on thread link
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  #329  
Old 07-31-2018, 5:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypa View Post
You mention "His will not fire with it cracked". I'm curious, How did you come to that conclusion? Did you guys actually try it? or are you assuming/guess/took some scientific measurement?



It would be good to have this answered.


I think an easy way to test this is to use a casing with just a primer (no powder or bullet). Chamber the casing and primer, crack the action and pull the trigger.

An alternate and safer way might be to take a used casing fired from another gun, carefully observe or photograph the firing pin indentation, chamber the round, crack the action, pull the trigger and observe if there is a new firing pin mark anywhere on the primer.

Just a thought. Do it at your own risk! But if you do, please share your results.


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  #330  
Old 07-31-2018, 9:28 PM
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We just introduced a new CA compliance device, the Freedom Buttonô. Available now on sale for $39.99 for the whole kit. This button solves some shortcomings with existing similar devices already on the market, and is much more affordable. Available with more info here: https://www.80percentarms.com/products/freedom-button

Video below. More videos to come in the next few weeks:

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  #331  
Old 07-31-2018, 11:32 PM
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Just curious but what shortcomings does the Freedom Button Kit overcome over devices like the Kingpin, Calcatch, and the Hellfighter kit?

I'm trying to look at every option before purchasing my maglock kit..
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  #332  
Old 08-01-2018, 6:58 AM
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IMHO fixed mag devices, like the one above, that remove the forward bolt release function in order to mount their mag release defeat part when the upper & lower are together is not something I would want

There are other products that maintain the forward release lever. ARMaglock being one of them
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  #333  
Old 08-01-2018, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
IMHO fixed mag devices, like the one above, that remove the forward bolt release function in order to mount their mag release defeat part when the upper & lower are together is not something I would want

There are other products that maintain the forward release lever. ARMaglock being one of them
That's my biggest caveat too. I'm trying to keep the bolt hold back feature.

I'm thinking the ARMaglock combined with any of the new fangled crack open pins would be the best..

But I'm curious as to why the 80% arms pin is better than say the kingpin.
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  #334  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtl View Post
But I'm curious as to why the 80% arms pin is better than say the kingpin.
IDK, don't have one. It looks like you unscrew one end to fully remove it if you need to remove the upper from lower vs the Kingpin you just twist and pull all the way out
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  #335  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80% Arms View Post
We just introduced a new CA compliance device, the Freedom Buttonô. Available now on sale for $39.99 for the whole kit. This button solves some shortcomings with existing similar devices already on the market, and is much more affordable. Available with more info here: https://www.80percentarms.com/products/freedom-button

Video below. More videos to come in the next few weeks:

How is this any different than the Juggernaut Hellfighter kit? It looks like a exact copy from the rear pin to the same look of the mag lock device? Iím all for free market & more options, but I donít see how copying some elseís design/kit is new or innovative.
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  #336  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingShooter View Post
How is this any different than the Juggernaut Hellfighter kit? It looks like a exact copy from the rear pin to the same look of the mag lock device? Iím all for free market & more options, but I donít see how copying some elseís design/kit is new or innovative.
I think itís about half the cost.
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  #337  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
I think itís about half the cost.
And he did say more videos to come in the next few weeks.. perhaps we're not seeing something here.
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  #338  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:16 AM
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The pin "looks" similar to the Juggernaut...kit is cheaper than others.....but it eliminates the forward bolt catch/release so not something I would get

Maybe in the end buying this and one of the mag releases that does not eliminate the bolt release would be cheaper than ARMaglock w/Kingpin but at that point not much $ savings if any.... IMHO the Kingpin is easier to completely remove
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  #339  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
I think itís about half the cost.
Exactly, due to them not having engineering costs to recoup from a design copy.
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  #340  
Old 08-01-2018, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingShooter View Post
Exactly, due to them not having engineering costs to recoup from a design copy.
We engineered this design a couple years ago before the bullet ban was law, long before anyone else was producing these devices. However, we were too backed up with orders for other products to produce it until now. Recently we moved to a much larger building and consequently a number of products we didn't have production capacity to make before are now headed to production. This is fairly simple to design, R&D costs are not a major factor. I don't want to bash other products, but the issue mentioned above by saki302 with rotation is not an issue for the Freedom Button.

We are a large machine shop with a specialty in efficient high volume production. We can produce these devices at a much more reasonable cost than most, which allows us to pass those savings onto our customers. It's bad enough we have to deal with all the ridiculous laws in CA. Having to pay another $70 to $100+ for these new compliance devices just adds insult to injury. At $39.99 we are making this much more affordable, especially for people who have a lot of guns they need to convert.
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  #341  
Old 08-01-2018, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80% Arms View Post
We engineered this design a couple years ago before the bullet ban was law, long before anyone else made these devices. However, we were too backed up with orders for other products to produce it at the time. It's pretty simple to design, R&D costs are not a real factor here. I don't want to bash other products, but the issue mentioned above by saki302 with rotation is not an issue for the Freedom Button.

We are a very large machine shop with a specialty in efficient high volume production. We can produce these devices at a much more reasonable cost than most, which allows us to pass those savings onto our customers. It's bad enough we have to deal with all the ridiculous laws in CA. Having to pay another $70 to $100+ for these new compliance devices just adds insult to injury. At $40 we are making this much more affordable, especially for people who have a lot of guns they need to convert.
Would it be possible to use the Freedom Button in conjunction with the ARMaglock, and crack the receivers with the bolt held back?

Basically I want this to be the Kingpin but half the cost..
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  #342  
Old 08-11-2018, 3:18 PM
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Anybody here used the CompMag yet?

https://www.compmag.net/blog/how-does-compmag-work/

Also, OP can you please update 1st post to add this and other new products?
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  #343  
Old 08-11-2018, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman View Post
Anybody here used the CompMag yet?

https://www.compmag.net/blog/how-does-compmag-work/

Also, OP can you please update 1st post to add this and other new products?
I havenít used it, but some guys at the lane next to mine at the range did and were having issues with it. It was double feed city, and got to the point where I saw them just loading 1 round, firing, and then loading another. Maybe they had other issues or bad ammo, didnít ask...
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  #344  
Old 08-11-2018, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingShooter View Post
It was double feed city
For clarity of terms, a double feed is TWO LIVE ROUNDS trying to get into the chamber.
Actual double feeds are extremely uncommon and usually related to a magazine with much of one lip broken off.

What is much more common is failures to eject.
Most people mis-diagnose failures to eject as a double feed for some reason.
A failure to eject is ONE LIVE ROUND and ONE FIRED CASE trying to get into the chamber.
Failures to eject are gas port size/ammo/buffer/spring, ejector or extractor related.

With that new knowledge, what was actually happening?
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  #345  
Old 08-11-2018, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
For clarity of terms, a double feed is TWO LIVE ROUNDS trying to get into the chamber.
Actual double feeds are extremely uncommon and usually related to a magazine with much of one lip broken off.

What is much more common is failures to eject.
Most people mis-diagnose failures to eject as a double feed for some reason.
A failure to eject is ONE LIVE ROUND and ONE FIRED CASE trying to get into the chamber.
Failures to eject are gas port size/ammo/buffer/spring, ejector or extractor related.

With that new knowledge, what was actually happening?
For sure I understand. They were to my right, so to be honest I couldn’t see exactly what was happening in the chamber. All I know is I saw them trying to clear it & cussing a bunch, then finally packed up and left after shooting a couple single shot rounds. Could have been a failure to eject, double feed, etc. but I tend to mind my own business at the range, so never asked what was up...

Like I said, may not have even been this product. Could have been some other issue.

Last edited by FlyingShooter; 08-11-2018 at 7:36 PM..
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  #346  
Old 08-14-2018, 3:23 PM
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Kingpins are available SOLO now on AR Maglocks website! Limited supply!


https://armaglock.com/product/ar-mag...-5-56-kingpin/
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Last edited by protohyp; 08-14-2018 at 5:01 PM..
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  #347  
Old 08-14-2018, 7:03 PM
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Anyone try the Hogue freedom fighter with the Kingpin or other similar limited release rear take down pins?

Were you able to open with the bolt locked back?



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  #348  
Old 08-14-2018, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBen View Post
Anyone try the Hogue freedom fighter with the Kingpin or other similar limited release rear take down pins?

Were you able to open with the bolt locked back?



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people have reported that it works. Some have reported the had to file the freedom fighter pin down just a little for bolt hold back but in most cases it worked right off the bat.
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