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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-08-2018, 9:50 AM
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Default Army’s SAW and M4 replacement caliber is 6.8

The Army’s SAW and M4 replacements will both fire this more accurate and deadly round

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...-deadly-round/


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Old 10-08-2018, 10:55 AM
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.270.

'Bout time.

6.5 CM fans weep.




Hope the Marine Corps picks it up as well.




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Old 10-08-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
.270.

'Bout time.

6.5 CM fans weep.
I think you mean Grendel fans. The Creedmoor is a different class of cartridge.

What holds the Grendel back is the parent 7.62 x 39 case angles. 30 round mags for the Grendel AR always have that pronounced curve and they never seem to be that reliable.

Barrier penetration was also probably an important criteria.

But, I'm surprised they didn't want something with better legs after our experiences in Afghanistan.

The weird part of that article, is in the corresponding video, they showed a 6.5 caliber carbine, not a 6.8.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:20 AM
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so they are trying to use 6.8 for all 3 types per the article?

infantry battle rifle
marksmen/sniper
squad automatic rifle

is the 6.8 that great that it can serve all 3 roles?
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:21 AM
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Default Army’s SAW and M4 replacement caliber is 6.8

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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I think you mean Grendel fans. The Creedmoor is a different class of cartridge.

What holds the Grendel back is the parent 7.62 x 39 case angles. 30 round mags for the Grendel AR always have that pronounced curve and they never seem to be that reliable.

Barrier penetration was also probably an important criteria.

But, I'm surprised they didn't want something with better legs after our experiences in Afghanistan.

The weird part of that article, is in the corresponding video, they showed a 6.5 caliber carbine, not a 6.8.




Yeah, and the SOCOM is about to adopt 6.5CM. I think 6.8SPC for M4 (What it was originally designed for... Specifically to replace 5.56) and 6.5 CM for long distance engagement are two excellent cartridge choices.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...und-next-year/

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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
so they are trying to use 6.8 for all 3 types per the article?



infantry battle rifle

marksmen/sniper

squad automatic rifle



is the 6.8 that great that it can serve all 3 roles?


It's a pretty great all around cartridge. Good muzzle energy out to 800 yards. Very consistent and reliable. Not significantly larger COAL than 5.56 and similar diameter, so not a drastic decrease in carrying capacity. 110-120gr loads that feed from a magazine. For long distance engagement, the 6.5CM is the obvious choice. But for anything less than 1k this will do the job plenty well.

Also, I'm giddy with excitement because that means a drastic increase in avaliable 6.8 cartridges and cases.

My 6.8 AR just got a lot easier to feed.

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Old 10-08-2018, 11:26 AM
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Is this the higher pressure round that they were talking about a few months back?
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:07 PM
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Wonder if Kalishnikov will respond. With AK-12 and AK-15 adopted. And a maybe AK-308. They like their legacy AK-47 and 74 cartridges with the 12 and 15. And now proposing the .308.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:18 PM
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This is all still in the prototype stage. I’ll believe it when it is actually purchased and fielded. The DoD has a lot of ammunition and equipment dedicated to 5.56 sitting in armories and warehouses and I doubt Congress would be happy about a wholesale change and rearmament. Hopefully it does happen though.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:22 PM
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I sure hope it isn't 6.8 SPC (and it probably isn't)
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:31 PM
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I sure hope it isn't 6.8 SPC (and it probably isn't)


Why's that?


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Old 10-08-2018, 2:10 PM
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I just don't see how we would ever convince NATO to change. Logistically, NATO and our other allies are sitting on millions of rounds of ammo, and will be loathe to get rid of it all and buy new ammo. Back when we changed from 7.62x51, we pretty much owned NATO and ran the show, so everybody else fell into line (albeit grudgingly).
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Old 10-08-2018, 2:28 PM
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Isn't it .277 dia not .270 dia ? My numbers came out that way.

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Old 10-08-2018, 2:28 PM
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Default Army’s SAW and M4 replacement caliber is 6.8

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Originally Posted by Garand Hunter View Post
Isn't it .277 dia not .270 dia ? My numbers came out that way.

Psalm 1


270 cal is .277 dia.




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  #14  
Old 10-08-2018, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
What holds the Grendel back is the parent 7.62 x 39 case angles.
Grendel has different angles. Grendel's problem is bolt strength as a result of case head diameter.
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Old 10-08-2018, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Grendel has different angles. Grendel's problem is bolt strength as a result of case head diameter.
That's only an issue in an AR-15 platform. As far as I know it is a theoretical problem in AR-15. I know of no reports of this being an issue in use although someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It would also be completely irrelevant in a newly developed rifle. Also, could be easily addressed with a new chamber spec for a new bolt that could be compatible with the AR-15 platform. Faxon could come out with a 6.5G upper tomorrow in the ARAK if they wanted to - just need a barrel.

6.5 pills are actually 6.7 mm diameter so the main difference between that and 6.8 SPC is bullet length (providing the better BC).
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Old 10-08-2018, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy101 View Post
I just don't see how we would ever convince NATO to change. Logistically, NATO and our other allies are sitting on millions of rounds of ammo, and will be loathe to get rid of it all and buy new ammo. Back when we changed from 7.62x51, we pretty much owned NATO and ran the show, so everybody else fell into line (albeit grudgingly).
eh, with the way trump is going, i doubt thinking about NATO is even a concern.

i mean realistically has the standardization of ammo between all the NATO countries really come into play besides on a few rare occasions?
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Old 10-08-2018, 3:22 PM
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Its part of the agreement. Ever heard of STANAG?

Besides, we have many other non NATO allies that also have standardization agreements with us. Look at Japan, Korea, and Taiwan.
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Old 10-08-2018, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
eh, with the way trump is going, i doubt thinking about NATO is even a concern.

i mean realistically has the standardization of ammo between all the NATO countries really come into play besides on a few rare occasions?
The whole idea of NATO standardization is that, when it's needed, it's there. By which I mean that, in time of war, all the ammo is standardized.
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Old 10-08-2018, 7:29 PM
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If 6.8 gets forced into being the new NATO round, does that mean the other nations will have to burn through their 5.56 in training/conflict or will the market price of 5.56 for the civilian consumer drop due to the increase in supply?

I know there are some scumbags out there that could definitely use some once-fired bullets.
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Old 10-08-2018, 8:32 PM
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It would be great if they just kept the same calibers and used hunting bullets.
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Old 10-08-2018, 9:09 PM
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It's sorta come full circle.

280 British circa 1945... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.280_British

NATO It's time for the other "partners" to ante up and get off the American teat of protection.
Lets hope they don' start WW3. The last 2 were epic sheet shows.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:57 PM
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It would be great if they just kept the same calibers and used hunting bullets.


Hague Convention of 1899 prevents that.


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Old 10-09-2018, 10:48 AM
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I was hoping for 6.5CM, but I don't think it can fit in a standard AR mag.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:04 AM
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5.56 isn't going anywhere.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:08 AM
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5.56 isn't going anywhere.
Still works quite well.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:08 AM
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I have couple ars in that caliber. Should be a lot more brass available.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:17 AM
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I can’t fathom it being 6.8spc. It just doesn’t provide that much more power. Maybe they got some better wildcat cartridge cooked up?
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:02 PM
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I can’t fathom it being 6.8spc. It just doesn’t provide that much more power. Maybe they got some better wildcat cartridge cooked up?
They evidently call it the 6.8 GP. GP for general purpose. So it doesn't appear to be the 6.8 SPC II.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:19 PM
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Seals already using 6.8 spc. It should be the armys choice.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:21 PM
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People saying 5.56 is good enough, have you tried to make precision shots in a moderate wind, even at only 100 yards? It performs miserably even in a non-combat environment...


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Old 10-09-2018, 2:44 PM
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Hague Convention of 1899 prevents that.
Correct. Though the military can use them for "counter-terrorism operations."
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Old 10-09-2018, 3:19 PM
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You can expect the Marines to follow on this.
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Old 10-09-2018, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
It's sorta come full circle.

280 British circa 1945... [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.280_British[/url}
You beat me to it. Since rejecting the .280 British and the FAL over 70 years ago we've just been moving closer to it.

While I would love to see cheaper 6.8 ammo, what's the chance this program doesn't get cancelled like the last few?
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Old 10-09-2018, 4:02 PM
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I have 6.8 spc for sale in ammo sales ssa ammo.
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Old 10-11-2018, 4:32 PM
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I was hoping for 6.5CM, but I don't think it can fit in a standard AR mag.


Large frame AR10/308 only. Too big a weight penalty.


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Old 10-11-2018, 6:36 PM
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The picture I saw of a prototype round looked to be somewhere between a 6.5G and 6.5CM. Long bullet unlike the more stubby 6.8 SPC.

The articles I have read have said the Army is trying to cover the gap between 500m-1000m. I really think the 6.5G (or something that performs similarly) is ideal. Going bigger means a larger, heavier rifle which no grunt wants. Quick follow up shots is a big deal so recoil has to be kept to a minimum as well.

I guess we'll see. The OICW was such a cluster eff that it's hard to trust these guys sometimes...
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Old 10-11-2018, 8:45 PM
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Does it say that the cartridge will be 6.8 SPC? Or will there be a new carteidge developed using 6.8 as the choice caliber?

I read the article a couple of times and can't decide. It looks to me like each manufacturer wi be providing ammo, so are they also designing it?

Quote:
But they also must deliver both a High Pressure Test Round, loaded 20 percent higher than normal pressure. That is to stress the gun barrel and breech during firing.
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Old 10-11-2018, 8:48 PM
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I’m not really sure how significant this article is. Seems like there would be way more chatter if those in the know thought this was actually going to happen.
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Old 10-11-2018, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlentzner View Post
The picture I saw of a prototype round looked to be somewhere between a 6.5G and 6.5CM. Long bullet unlike the more stubby 6.8 SPC.

The articles I have read have said the Army is trying to cover the gap between 500m-1000m. I really think the 6.5G (or something that performs similarly) is ideal. Going bigger means a larger, heavier rifle which no grunt wants. Quick follow up shots is a big deal so recoil has to be kept to a minimum as well.

I guess we'll see. The OICW was such a cluster eff that it's hard to trust these guys sometimes...
I like the 6.5 Grendel as well, but allegedly the shape of the case caused jams in full auto (from articles I recall from long ago).
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Old 10-11-2018, 9:25 PM
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Seals already using 6.8 spc. It should be the armys choice.
Just because they got test articles to play with doesn't mean that they use them on a regular basis. Just like all of the units that supposedly use the SCAR, in reality, they sit in the arms room collecting dust because everyone likes the SOPMOD M4 and no other guns provide any distinct advantages over it. As far as the article, I don't know if anyone else on here was ever in the Army, but anyone who was knows that they rotate through their bait-ey headlines every few months. It is always either a new PT test, a new rifle/caliber, new uniforms/camo pattern, or some bull**** about new signing bonuses. I will believe it when I see it, the Army has tested so many calibers before that were better, but they were all deemed not better enough to make the switch worthwhile. 5.56 has served us well and the naysayers need to work on their marksmanship a bit more and adjust their expectations away from 1 hit immediate kill, that is a WWII mentality.
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