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View Poll Results: Do you accept FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY licenses/ID's?
Yes, we accept them. 11 30.56%
No, we do not accept them 25 69.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by code_blue View Post
That's what I mean. How do we determine the difference between actual AB60 DL's issued after 01/22/18 vs "regular" FLA? As far as I understand actual AB60 DL's are still issued.
If the FLA ID is issued after 22-Jan-2018, it isn't your problem, it is the problem of the state for the background check.
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  #82  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:18 PM
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What a cluster...
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  #83  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post
What a cluster...
It is the government, what exactly did you expect?

Giving licenses to those here illegally? How could that be a good idea? Then issuing the same exact license to those legally here? What could go wrong with that?

It is all about agendas and slowly leading the sheeple down the path without a clue of what it will result in.
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  #84  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:30 PM
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I think we'll probably follow a path similar to Ace's idea even after DOJ "confirms" FLA's are OK.

We'll probably require some other form of identification on top of the FLA as a policy. It beats rejecting the transaction and mandating the REAL ID.

For one thing, I wish to avoid giving any illegals the idea that they can purchase anything from the shop. Another is to avoid any other governmental scrutiny down the line whether DOJ or ATF.
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  #85  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:41 PM
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Follow-up I received:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Do you have an idea on when the bulletin will come out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOJ Response
Unfortunately I do not. We ask weekly and get “they are working on it”
So even internally, they get
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  #86  
Old 08-22-2018, 1:49 PM
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The DOJ webinar the Field Rep said you can take if issued after 1/22/18. He also said they have drafted a memo that he has seen and its with the Lawyers, but no ETA on when it will be released.
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  #87  
Old 08-22-2018, 1:52 PM
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I can't feel very confident about taking the FLA pre-bulletin if it's taking their own lawyers forever to determine if it's legal or not...
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  #88  
Old 08-22-2018, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I can't feel very confident about taking the FLA pre-bulletin if it's taking their own lawyers forever to determine if it's legal or not...
They don't want to admit their mistake. It isn't about being legal or not. If people were denied being able to buy a firearm due to their mistake, they have a problem if they admit it.
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  #89  
Old 08-22-2018, 8:56 PM
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While catching up on this thread I decided to call the DROS hotline and ask the question yet again. The nice young lady gave me an answer that was significantly different than the previous standard, "refer to the 2016 bulletin". She basically said pre 1/22/18 FLA is no go and post 1/22/18 is "at the discretion of the dealer". When asked if a bulletin was coming, she basically had the tone of "I hope so". I think we are moving in the right direction, but I'm still hesitant until I see something in writing. Maybe next week I will call again and record the call, of course letting them know I am doing so, and see if they repeat the "dealer discretion" thing. If you as an FFL has changed your policy in regards to accepting post 1/22/18 FLA licenses, please UPDATE your poll response.

Cheers!
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  #90  
Old 08-22-2018, 10:28 PM
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typical government employees. when you call/talk to different people, you will get different answers unless you have a chance to ask supervisor.
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  #91  
Old 08-23-2018, 8:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dummykid View Post
typical government employees. when you call/talk to different people, you will get different answers unless you have a chance to ask supervisor.
To be fair this is typical of most any place you call depending on the training that level of employee has received. E.g., I was trying to order a Big Mac and Filet-O-Fish for $5 (2 for 5 deal) at McDs and the cashier said "they have to be the same" ... I asked "Are you sure?" ... she punched it in and was like "Oh, I guess not.."...

Now the folks that answer the DES line I would argue are a bit brighter than who was helping me, but they are probably in the same location in the org totem pole.
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  #92  
Old 08-27-2018, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
While catching up on this thread I decided to call the DROS hotline and ask the question yet again. The nice young lady gave me an answer that was significantly different than the previous standard, "refer to the 2016 bulletin". She basically said pre 1/22/18 FLA is no go and post 1/22/18 is "at the discretion of the dealer". When asked if a bulletin was coming, she basically had the tone of "I hope so". I think we are moving in the right direction, but I'm still hesitant until I see something in writing. Maybe next week I will call again and record the call, of course letting them know I am doing so, and see if they repeat the "dealer discretion" thing. If you as an FFL has changed your policy in regards to accepting post 1/22/18 FLA licenses, please UPDATE your poll response.

Cheers!
I called again today, to shutup a know it all, and I got "pre 1/22/18 FLA is no go and post 1/22/18 is no go." She was obviously reading from a script, paused, and said WTF, why would there be a division if it is the same answer.

I clarified "so yes or no?" She gave a solid "no!"
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  #93  
Old 08-28-2018, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Burbur View Post
I called again today, to shutup a know it all, and I got "pre 1/22/18 FLA is no go and post 1/22/18 is no go." She was obviously reading from a script, paused, and said WTF, why would there be a division if it is the same answer.

I clarified "so yes or no?" She gave a solid "no!"
Why would anyone call the DES number and not their DOJ rep?

The reps are giving the green light on FLA’s
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  #94  
Old 09-05-2018, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Why would anyone call the DES number and not their DOJ rep?

The reps are giving the green light on FLA’s
Does anyone have anything in WRITING from their DOJ rep?
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  #95  
Old 09-05-2018, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Does anyone have anything in WRITING from their DOJ rep?
Yes but I am still waiting on bulletin to ensure it is official.

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  #96  
Old 09-05-2018, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Yes but I am still waiting on bulletin to ensure it is official.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Did you take the basic dealer webinar. On the hand out PDF on page 4 they show a FLA license and wrote:
Quote:
Check Issue Date on license - Before 1/22/18 NOT valid for DROS purposes
That and a email from my rep are my fall backs.
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  #97  
Old 09-05-2018, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
Did you take the basic dealer webinar. On the hand out PDF on page 4 they show a FLA license and wrote:


That and a email from my rep are my fall backs.
I didn't take the most recent one. Is the handout available in DES? If not, can you post a link to it?
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  #98  
Old 09-05-2018, 2:54 PM
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I didn't take the most recent one. Is the handout available in DES? If not, can you post a link to it?
PM me you email and ill send it....its a pdf
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  #99  
Old 09-06-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
PM me you email and ill send it....its a pdf
Thanks for the document. I'm pretty confident that Page 4 of the PDF pretty much settles this discussion.
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  #100  
Old 09-06-2018, 8:49 PM
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Agreed. Based on the new dealer handouts plus the email from the rep assigned to us we have updated our FLA policy today. We are now accepting with additional proof of citizenship. E.g. passport, green card, Visa etc...
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Thanks for the document. I'm pretty confident that Page 4 of the PDF pretty much settles this discussion.
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  #101  
Old 09-20-2018, 6:52 PM
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Is there a link to this document somewhere?
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  #102  
Old 09-21-2018, 3:24 PM
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Ugh, back to this thread again that just wont go away. But I have to chime in on this one. If you start your DROS with your original ID (normal, not FLA non REAL ID) then decide to go get a Real ID, DO NOT go during your 10 day wait and come back here to pick up your gun with either a paper printout "Driver License" or hole punched ID.

Thanks, my PSA is done for the day.
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  #103  
Old 09-21-2018, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Ugh, back to this thread again that just wont go away. But I have to chime in on this one. If you start your DROS with your original ID (normal, not FLA non REAL ID) then decide to go get a Real ID, DO NOT go during your 10 day wait and come back here to pick up your gun with either a paper printout "Driver License" or hole punched ID.

Thanks, my PSA is done for the day.
HaHaHa...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Is there a link to this document somewhere?
PM Me an email address.
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  #104  
Old 09-21-2018, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Ugh, back to this thread again that just wont go away. But I have to chime in on this one. If you start your DROS with your original ID (normal, not FLA non REAL ID) then decide to go get a Real ID, DO NOT go during your 10 day wait and come back here to pick up your gun with either a paper printout "Driver License" or hole punched ID.

Thanks, my PSA is done for the day.

So many variations of this over the past few months.

It's the FFL's fault, right?
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  #105  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:13 PM
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So, here's a new twist on things. I just had a kid in my shop that wanted to buy a 10/22. I had to refuse the sale when he revealed that he was a DACA kid with a work authorization card. Here's the kicker though. He had a REAL ID! WTF?!? I thought that was the whole idea of the AB60 licenses in the first place?!?
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  #106  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
So, here's a new twist on things. I just had a kid in my shop that wanted to buy a 10/22. I had to refuse the sale when he revealed that he was a DACA kid with a work authorization card. Here's the kicker though. He had a REAL ID! WTF?!? I thought that was the whole idea of the AB60 licenses in the first place?!?

DACA folks can get temporary REAL ID's because DACA exempted them from deportation.

https://www.nwpb.org/2018/01/03/real...ca-recipients/

Quote:
According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s website, immigrants with temporary protected status like DACA can update their driver’s licenses to become REAL ID compliant.

If he didn't say so, you would've never known. That's the BS behind all of this.
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  #107  
Old 10-11-2018, 1:54 PM
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Interesting article.

The first thing that tipped me off is that his expiration was not his birthday. That always means they are non-citizen on an I94 or green card. In this case he was DACA.
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  #108  
Old 10-11-2018, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Interesting article.

The first thing that tipped me off is that his expiration was not his birthday. That always means they are non-citizen on an I94 or green card. In this case he was DACA.

Yes, that would be the determining factor. I suppose we'd have to train our staff to look for that and follow-up with questions re: their status. Do you recall if the ID stated "Temporary" anywhere?

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-faq-implementation

Quote:
Q. How should a "Temporary" or "Limited Term" license be marked?

A. Temporary and limited term cards need to clearly indicate both on its face and in the machine readable zone that they are temporary and include the expiration date.

Last edited by code_blue; 10-11-2018 at 2:41 PM..
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  #109  
Old 10-11-2018, 2:57 PM
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California is just getting more complicated.
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  #110  
Old 10-11-2018, 6:34 PM
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I don't recall anything stating temporary on it. I just notice the different expiration date whenever I see it. I'm pretty sure this always indicates a person that has some sort of alien status.
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  #111  
Old 11-02-2018, 1:36 PM
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Just swiped a locals "Federal Limits Apply" lic. which he received two weeks ago not knowing about Real ID and the DROS rejected it as "Invalid ID"? Is this maybe a new wrinkle in the process. Wound up typing all his DL info into DROS. No rejection yet.
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  #112  
Old 11-02-2018, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Just swiped a locals "Federal Limits Apply" lic. which he received two weeks ago not knowing about Real ID and the DROS rejected it as "Invalid ID"? Is this maybe a new wrinkle in the process. Wound up typing all his DL info into DROS. No rejection yet.
That sounds like it didn't read the license properly. Unless they encoded it differently, I don't know how the system would know.
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  #113  
Old 11-02-2018, 3:10 PM
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I've swiped a FLA ID before no issues.
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  #114  
Old 11-02-2018, 3:27 PM
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FLA’s swipe all the same. It is probably a hardware issue at your computer.
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  #115  
Old 11-03-2018, 9:09 AM
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Card was swiped three times. No luck. The lic. for all intents and purposes was new. Next customer with FLA worked fine!
My guess is an encoding problem. Says he will go back to DMV and get a RID.
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  #116  
Old 11-03-2018, 2:29 PM
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He might have erased the magstripe. Did anything fill in the top box? You can also open an editor and swipe the ID to see what it reads in, if anything.
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  #117  
Old 11-03-2018, 4:26 PM
medicdubs96 medicdubs96 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Card was swiped three times. No luck. The lic. for all intents and purposes was new. Next customer with FLA worked fine!
My guess is an encoding problem. Says he will go back to DMV and get a RID.
I had a similar issue yesterday. I did a PPT for a LE to another guy. The LE seller just got his new CA DL with "real ID" in July. I swiped the card 4 time and the scan erred all four times. I was comfortable that the ID was legit as I know him personally. the ID was in great condition, I suppose it's possible that it was demagnetized.
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  #118  
Old 11-05-2018, 8:53 AM
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Tyke8319 Tyke8319 is offline
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
He might have erased the magstripe. Did anything fill in the top box? You can also open an editor and swipe the ID to see what it reads in, if anything.
Nothing filled into the boxes. Just a note indicating "invalid ID"?
The demagnetization sound the most plausible.
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  #119  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:03 AM
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Update:
Just received a "Delay" notice on the aforementioned DROS which I had to manually filled in due to the magnetic reader not taking a FLA on the above customer!!??
I'm wondering if the FLA lic. triggered red flags on this particular customer or if it was just coincidence???
I know the guy fairly well and doubt there is any nefarious concern.
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American soldier by choice. Made in America by the Grace of God.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. Rbt. Heinlein
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  #120  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:11 AM
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code_blue code_blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Update:
Just received a "Delay" notice on the aforementioned DROS which I had to manually filled in due to the magnetic reader not taking a FLA on the above customer!!??
I'm wondering if the FLA lic. triggered red flags on this particular customer or if it was just coincidence???
I know the guy fairly well and doubt there is any nefarious concern.

Since DOJ alluded that FLA after 1/22/18 is good in a recent dealer webinar, I doubt that the FLA triggered it. Must be something else.
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