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  #1  
Old 01-17-2019, 2:38 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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Default Legacy bullet button/ fixed magazine on featureless build

My friend's mom is coming in from out of town; mom is a gun noob. I've been asked to throw a range day for her, and i am happy to oblige.

Since "evil bullet buttons" are a buzzword, i thought i'd set the record straight and install one on a featureless build to show that it does not in fact make the gun go full auto.

Am i technically running afoul of any laws by installing a bullet button to a featureless ar15?


P.s. is a featured ar15 considered an assault rifle (by CA standards) if the bcg is removed?
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2019, 2:53 PM
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sonofeugene sonofeugene is offline
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Not an expert, but I don't see why it would be a problem on a featureless AR. Why bother, though. You can demonstrate what a bullet button release would require you to do without actually installing one. Just use a bullet to press your existing button. Maybe show her a photo of recessed bullet button.

And if she ends up firing anything with a scope, make sure she pulls the stock firmly to her shoulder and doesn't have her face too close to the scope. I was at Sunnyvale Rod and Gun once where some guys failed to do that and had their father shoot a large caliber rifle. He got a painful and nasty cut over his eyebrow that likely needed stitches.
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Last edited by sonofeugene; 01-17-2019 at 2:55 PM..
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2019, 5:51 PM
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dvs762 dvs762 is offline
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I'll say what DOJ has told me. If you get caught with a bullet button on a gun.. featureless or not..it's possible to still be prosecuted for a non registered AW..yeah..stupid I agree.. trouble is local cops are the ones arresting you and they aren't experts on guns..just the briefing they got on bullet buttons..so likely will be dropped...but not worth the hassles..

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  #4  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs762 View Post
I'll say what DOJ has told me. If you get caught with a bullet button on a gun.. featureless or not..it's possible to still be prosecuted for a non registered AW..
FUD, FUD, and more FUD. First off, the DOJ much like your LGS, ranges, and gun shows are the last places to get reliable information about gun laws and what you might get prosecuted for. Apparently this forum isn't as good as it used to be either.

A bullet button on a featureless rifle is completely legal.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:14 PM
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Well likely you're right..but like I said..local cops were briefed about BB equipped guns...DOJ isn't on the ground arresting you..it's some local PD guy going off whatever he's been told.. and that is the problem....

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  #6  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:44 PM
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You can have a normal, fully functioning magazine release on a featureless rifle, so I’m with sonofeugene in wondering what the point would be in replacing the normal, fully functioning magazine release with a reduced functionality “bullet-button” style magazine release?
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2019, 12:32 AM
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He's making a point to relatives that a BB doesn't make the gun more evil..cuz some people drink the koolaid way too much..

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  #8  
Old 01-19-2019, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Am i technically running afoul of any laws by installing a bullet button to a featureless ar15?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
P.s. is a featured ar15 considered an assault rifle (by CA standards) if the bcg is removed?
Yes.
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Old 01-21-2019, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
No.


Yes.
Why would it be an assault rifle when it has no action? It's not even a complete rifle. Just like if the action is broken by opening the upper and lower. Removing bcg is removing firing pin.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:29 PM
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Why would it be an assault rifle when it has no action? It's not even a complete rifle. Just like if the action is broken by opening the upper and lower. Removing bcg is removing firing pin.
"broken assault weapon".
CA case involving a complete functional semi-auto centerfire rifle with restricted features with the bolt-carrier group removed but stored nearby.
Resulted in a conviction for possession of an assault weapon.

If relying on disassembly to avoid assault weapons, it is recommend that the parts are not kept together.
Stored/transported in seperate containers/locations.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2019, 9:32 PM
Fizzman Fizzman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
"broken assault weapon".
CA case involving a complete functional semi-auto centerfire rifle with restricted features with the bolt-carrier group removed but stored nearby.
Resulted in a conviction for possession of an assault weapon.

If relying on disassembly to avoid assault weapons, it is recommend that the parts are not kept together.
Stored/transported in seperate containers/locations.
If that's the case then the new magazine releases wouldn't be legal, because when upper and lower is separated slightly, then the gun becomes an assault rifle the moment the magazine is detached. What conviction case are you referring to?
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2019, 9:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzman View Post
If that's the case then the new magazine releases wouldn't be legal, because when upper and lower is separated slightly, then the gun becomes an assault rifle the moment the magazine is detached. What conviction case are you referring to?
No, because of how they worded CA laws/regulations which allows when the firearm's action is disassembled (upper and lower are seperated), it makes it legal to remove/replace the fixed magazine.

If the firearm's action is not disassembled and there is no magazine contained in the firearm, then it would be considered an assault weapon because it no longer meets the definition of a fixed magazine.


"broken assault weapon" = People v Chaker (2004)
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Last edited by Quiet; 01-21-2019 at 9:46 PM..
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2019, 9:49 PM
Fizzman Fizzman is offline
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Isn't the firing pin also part of the action? Aren't some prop or display guns, guns without firing pin? Isn't removing or flipping the gas system so that bcg doesn't cycle, would that be now a single action rifle? (slightly off topic)
Do you have more details on people vs Chaker? There must have been a confession or something, because no firing pin means it is not semiautomatic. Much like changing the gas system, it is missing a "crucial" component. It is not a "broken" AW. It is a non-semiautomatic rifle. Possibly a non-semiautomatic rim fire rifle.

Last edited by Fizzman; 01-21-2019 at 10:05 PM..
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2019, 9:56 PM
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Isn't removing or flipping the gas system so that bcg doesn't cycle, would that be now a single action rifle? (slightly off topic)
No.
Since 2000, setting a gas block to zero did not make the firearm a non-semi-auto.
Needed to remove the gas tube/piston and plug the gas block, in order for it be considered no longer semi-auto.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:49 AM
Fizzman Fizzman is offline
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As for people vs nguyen, if you had one of each part to make only one AW then I can see that. But if you had various parts that can make two or more non-AW. But happen to have all the parts to make one AW. Then you would really have to intend on making a AW to be in trouble. Say you have one fix mag and one featureless and you take both of them apart.

Last edited by Fizzman; 01-22-2019 at 1:13 AM..
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2019, 8:58 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
"broken assault weapon".
CA case involving a complete functional semi-auto centerfire rifle with restricted features with the bolt-carrier group removed but stored nearby.
Resulted in a conviction for possession of an assault weapon.

If relying on disassembly to avoid assault weapons, it is recommend that the parts are not kept together.
Stored/transported in seperate containers/locations.
So if I hypothetically have a handful of featureless rifles in the same location and an assortment of parts to convert those featureless rifles into AWs, and the hand tools to do so, I could be convicted for possession of an AW?

Is "separate locations" and/or "not kept together" defined somewhere? Much like storing a gun long term in a friend's safe without transferring the gun the friend has unfettered access to the gun and it could easily be construed as an illegal transfer, unless the parts are completely out of your possession/control then they could be on the other side of the country and you could still get convicted?
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2019, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
So if I hypothetically have a handful of featureless rifles in the same location and an assortment of parts to convert those featureless rifles into AWs, and the hand tools to do so, I could be convicted for possession of an AW?

Is "separate locations" and/or "not kept together" defined somewhere? Much like storing a gun long term in a friend's safe without transferring the gun the friend has unfettered access to the gun and it could easily be construed as an illegal transfer, unless the parts are completely out of your possession/control then they could be on the other side of the country and you could still get convicted?
From what CGF/FPC/CRPA lawyers have said in the past... don't keep all the parts in the same container/room without any compliance parts present.
Depending on how good your lawyer is... you may beat the rap, but not the ride.
So, keeping the parts seperated, is a method to avoid the ride.
This is something that's been recommend since 2000.

The People V Nguyen case involved having all the parts to make an assault weapon with no compliance parts (parts that could have been used to make the resulting firearm CA legal).

So, keep parts in seperate containers or have compliance parts installed/with all the parts, in order to avoid an AW arrest.
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