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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#2
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Based on my experiance and in no way is this to state the other pistols are sub-par. Just my opinion.
I own Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Les Baer, 2-Springfield customs. Les Baer - Out the box the best (production with tons of hands on fitting). Springfield Custom Shop - Made how you want it, the best.
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U.S. Marine Corps 1994-2003 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdm...ooQ5EXq2JQwCoQ Last edited by piedrarc; 02-07-2010 at 8:53 AM.. |
#3
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I have a Kimber Custom Stainless, Kimber Ultra CDP and a Les Baer Thunder Ranch. The Kimbers have had ~$400-$500 in gunsmithing / wilson parts put in them to get rid of the MIM parts after I had a safety break on the CDP and decided to get rid of all the MIM and have the guns thoroughly worked over. They are now where they should be, good quality reliable handguns that I would put my life on the line with...
The Les Baer was like that out of the box. If I had it to do all over again I'd own three Les Baers... |
#4
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I understand the Wilsons are fantastic, but I have never shot one. Just held it.
I know the Les Baers are about as good as it gets. I shoot a friend's often.
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.. .........STGC(SW) SAF Life Member NRA Benefactor |
#6
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out of the 5 companies you mentioned, i dont really feel kimber, even a 1911 out of their custom shop, is on par with the likes of ed brown, les baer, nighthawk customs, or wilson combat. as piedrarc mentioned earlier, i'd recommend looking into a springfield custom shop 1911 instead.
when it comes down to these semi-custom and full custom 1911s, it's all about personal preference. the "accuracy argument" is always brought up when a les baer is mentioned, but IMHO, unless you're a bullseye shooter or plan on shooting this 1911 off sandbags or a ransom rest, you're not going to be able to discern a difference. these 1911s are all capable of out-shooting the average shooter, 1.5" guarantee, 3" guarantee or not. in regards to wilson combat, they use different quality parts in the different tier guns that they make. (read: http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost...39&postcount=8) i cant speak for les baer or nighthawk customs, but i know ed brown uses the same parts in all of his guns, the only difference in the different models is cosmetic and the # of options included on the 1911. that said, i would just recommend that you browse around their websites and their subforums at http://forums.1911forum.com/index.php, look at their custom option sheets, find a local shop that carries high end 1911s, and just figure out which company makes the 1911 you feel looks and handles the best for YOU. Last edited by i1800collect; 02-07-2010 at 7:29 AM.. |
#7
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Wilson will be my choice. My springfield have been worked over by Wilson and they shoots better than my Kimber Gold Match and Colt Gold Cup.
Currently there are three Wilson for here at Calgun http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=267407 |
#8
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For a fighting pistol I'd go with a Wilson. For a match pistol either a higher end Less Baer or a S&W Performance Center 1911.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association |
#9
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I've held and shot a couple of Les Baer pistols, it sure is hard to beat. But I like the Ed Browns, I would opt for the Classic Custom w/ bull barrel.
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The wise man said just find your place In the eye of the storm Seek the roses along the way Just beware of the thorns... K. Meine |
#10
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The most affordable higher end pistol you mentioned is the Baer, the Nighthawk and the Wilson are of equal quality, but at a higher price point.
I'd not buy a Kimber, hit and miss QC. If you're on a budget, the Baer TRS - if you're not on a budget, the Wilson Tactical Elite.
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The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well. ___________________________________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos |
#11
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i looked at the market a couple of years ago when trying to decide between buying a high end production piece like a Brown, Baer, Wilson or Nighthawk of going with a custom build. i finally decided that i was getting more for money spent by going with a build...the only offset is the time it takes to get one.
if you're not going to have one built, for me the best value is a Les Baer...with the nod going to Nighthawk if i had more disposable income. if it is a gun for hard use, you might take a look at the Springfield Professional...i think their build time is about a year
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#13
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Of the 1911's discussed here -- which have a minimum or no MIM parts?
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Life Member NRA and 2A Foundation. My posts are my own opinions and do not reflect those of any organization I am a member of. Nothing I post should be construed as legal advice; if you need legal advice, see a lawyer. "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt (1759-1806) |
#15
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I have several 1911's and were i to do it all over again i would purchase a base model Colt in blued carbon steel and have Bruce Gray optimize it for you. You can save a good deal of money if you limit your modifications to what is critical for you. For me that would constitute initially a refined trigger, fitted barrel and upgraded sights. An enlarged mag well and a beavertail are also nice to have.
Let us know what you decide. |
#16
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But, my question was a serious one. I am considering taking one of my vintage Colt 1911s and putting $$$ into it to bring it up to the accuracy and reliability of 1911s in a class of Wilson and Baer -- or just buying one of aforementioned 1911s. Much of the expense in the rework of an old Colt is in all the hand-fitting required. I'm old fashioned -- I believe plastic, stamped steel and MIM parts have no place in a gun. So, I ask which, to the best of the most knowledgeable out there, has no MIM parts.
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Life Member NRA and 2A Foundation. My posts are my own opinions and do not reflect those of any organization I am a member of. Nothing I post should be construed as legal advice; if you need legal advice, see a lawyer. "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt (1759-1806) |
#19
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It's nice to have pride in your guns, but can you substantiate this?
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The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well. ___________________________________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos |
#20
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The answer lies in your pocketbook... Springfield, Kimber, Les Baer, Ed Brown, and so on, are all good, quality 1911 manufacturers... If you figure your budget and go from there...
Buy the best you can afford... |
#21
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for me the draw of the Baer is that they have control of manufacturing. the draw of NHC is the variety of features they offer, plus they are the only source of Heine authorized 1911s
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#22
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I own many of the pistols we're discussing, and own many 1911's built by noted 'smiths. At the high end, there is no "best" there are just personal preferences. Springfield's out of the custom shop are top pistols, but to assert that they're a quanititive measure better than every pistol out of other top shops isn't a supportable position.
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The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well. ___________________________________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos |
#23
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Like someone mentioned earlier buy what you can afford. I have a SA loaded model and have been happy with it. I've put a couple of hundred rounds down the pipe with no hiccups whatsoever.
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#24
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If you look closely at the relationship between moving parts, the difference is obvious. The slide to frame fit is tighter. The barrel to slide fit is tighter. The sides of the barrel hood are perfectly flat and you cannot see any light between the hood and the breech. The cuts are perfectly square. The barrel bushing is tight. The lower lugs are perfectly symmetric. The edges of upper lugs are not rounded off. More care and attention is given to thiese guns than the semi-customs mentioned above. |
#25
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#26
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#27
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For the money of a Wilson, I'd much prefer a tuned/customized Colt or Baer.
The Baer is a semi-custom, at best. It provides a top-level base gun with some "extras." It is not, however, a custom gun. I wouldn't consider it to have significant "custom fitting." Even Nighthawk and Wilsons have limited levels of hand fitting. The TRS is a bargain, for what it is. If I didn't despise front cocking serrations, I'd probably own one.
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Google Map of OLL Dealers List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed. |
#28
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I have Baer TRS and love it. No issues whatsoever with all kinds of ammo through it and very accurate.
At the same time, you can not go wrong with any on your list. I'd add S&W PC1911 to the list and suggest you look at it. Very nice gun too.
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. (c) Sage of Emporia |
#30
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here's a link to a Grayguns tweaked Dan Wesson CBOB that turned out very well with just a few mods http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc.../831109613/p/1
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale Last edited by 9mmepiphany; 02-07-2010 at 10:40 PM.. Reason: added link |
#31
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judging by the list of 1911 makers the OP listed, he's looking at semi-customs in the ~$2k (or more) range.
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#32
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2K+
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#33
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If you live anywhere near Culver City, check out MArtin Rettings store. They have EVERY 19111 from Baer to Wilson to Ed Brown. Pick up everyone and see what features you like, etc.,
In spite of all being "1911s" there are subtle differences in the external dimensions that change the feel of each gun. Over $1500 the quality is there. pick the gun that feels best to you. |
#34
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out of your list, I'll pick a Wilson. They are consistently built, and always have a smooth slide operation and excellent trigger. EB and LB have more quality variations from personal experience. NH have great reviews and terrible reviews, but I've never handled one.
Personally, I own 2 S&W PC1911s. |
#35
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The plain fact is that at the high end of the scale, all 1911 type pistols are on an m/l equal footing, with personal preference making the difference. There is another consideration though, and that is intended use. You want a pistol to pull out of the safe and fondle, that's one thing. You want a pistol to carry everyday, with the factors effecting performance due to environmental exposure, you might want a pistol with more generous tolerances.
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The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well. ___________________________________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos |
#36
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I got a SW1911, a Kimber Raptor and 2 Les Baers, they are all accurate out of the box and never have a FTF for thousands rounds, however when I shoot 50 yards from a sandbags, only the Les Baers can make 4" groups (could be better if I have good eyes).
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Do it yourself. |
#37
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Generous tolerances do not translate to total reliability. Tight tolerances do not translate into unreliability. The Swiss built a near zero clearance pistol for military use. FBI swat is happy with a tight pistol. Generous clearances on a $2500 pistol mean the manufacturer is out for maximum profit from people who do not know any better. |
#38
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
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