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  #1  
Old 05-31-2018, 7:00 PM
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Default What magnification for scoped ar15

Im building a longer range ar. 18 barrel and bipod. Building this to have a good semi auto rifle that can reach out to that 300-600 yard range.

Ive never had a scoped rifle.

My question is, what would be the ideal magnification range?

Im looking at some of the vortex optics. Not trying to break the bank.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2018, 7:18 PM
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3x9 40mm on the low end and 4x14 44mm or 50mm on the higher end. You could get away with a 1x6 or 8 if you know what you are doing. 1x good if you also want close range as well. Or go with offset irons along with scope.
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Old 05-31-2018, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gun View Post
3x9 40mm on the low end and 4x14 44mm or 50mm on the higher end. You could get away with a 1x6 or 8 if you know what you are doing. 1x good if you also want close range as well. Or go with offset irons along with scope.
Thanks for the reply. I definitely plan on doing offset irons.

Stupid question - the mm (eg. 40mm or 50mm) refers to the size of the scope housing correct? But how does it effect the range or usability of the optic?

thanks
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2018, 8:17 PM
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The "40" in a 3-9x40 refers to the size of the objective lens. It approximately corresponds to the size of the bell but is not an exact match because the lens must be smaller than the bell housing it. (kinda like how a 50" tv isn't exactly 50", it's more like 49.4" or somesuch) Generally if all factors are equal, the larger the objective lens, the better the light-gathering ability & thus a brighter image. However, all factors are rarely equal & glass quality trumps all. So a smaller but higher quality lens, even though it's paper specs may seem inferior, would be brighter than a cheapy scope with terrific sounding numbers.

What you might be thinking about when you say scope housing is possibly the tube diameter, which is the narrow middle portion of the scope. It is usually 1 inch (25mm) or 30mm, and on some high end scopes it is 34mm. A larger number allows for greater elevation adjustments, so for example a 25mm tube only allows for a total of 80moa in adjustment from bottom to top, but a 30mm allows for 100moa. (Those are hypothetical numbers, not based on any specific scope)
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2018, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
The "40" in a 3-9x40 refers to the size of the objective lens. It approximately corresponds to the size of the bell but is not an exact match because the lens must be smaller than the bell housing it. (kinda like how a 50" tv isn't exactly 50", it's more like 49.4" or somesuch)

What you might be thinking about when you say scope housing is possibly the tube diameter, which is the narrow middle portion of the scope. It is usually 1 inch (25mm) or 30mm, and on some high end scopes it is 34mm.
that makes more sense. thanks!
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Old 05-31-2018, 8:24 PM
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Read this
https://www.targettamers.com/guides/...lens-diameter/
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2018, 8:51 PM
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30mm tube is mainly standard for most scopes. I got 34mm Burris 5x25 50 for better elevation adjustments and Field of View at higher magnification. For your application 30mm is all you need. Since its shorter distance cantilever mount will be sturdy. Hight of the mounts will have to be subjective. This is where cheek risers come into play if you so choose. I'd get a higher magnification scope just so at 600 yds you can actually see the target and not try to aim at a spec in your field of vision. 14x ish mag is good enough, will be cheaper generally speaking.

Then comes what you want out of it which will narrow your options. First Focal Plane is more expensive but your "zero"will remain the same no matter your magnification. Second Focal Plane generally only holds zero at the magnification you zero it at, meaning if you zero at say 9 power of a 14 power scope your projectile will not track the same as it would at 9 power. Not a big deal if shooting 100 yds or even 200 yds, but out to 600 yards you could be talking feet off target.
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Old 06-01-2018, 5:53 AM
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2.5-10x or 3-12x are the scopes i would be looking at.

If you can provide a budget, people can make specific recommendations.

-Matt S.
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Old 06-01-2018, 8:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcav View Post
very helpful, thank you!
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2018, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpticsPlanet View Post
2.5-10x or 3-12x are the scopes i would be looking at.

If you can provide a budget, people can make specific recommendations.

-Matt S.
considering the Vortex Crossfire II 4-16x50 AO. seems to be well rounded and id like to be in that $350ish range
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2018, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd40 View Post
considering the Vortex Crossfire II 4-16x50 AO. seems to be well rounded and id like to be in that $350ish range
Its okay, but the turrets are going to be a PITA to turn up and down, and the BDC isn't going to be very helpful in making longer range hits. Plus I don't think your gaining much with that 50mm bell on a 18" AR.

AO or side paralax adjustment is a huge benefit. Side adjustment knobs are much easier to use however. For high end magnafication on your build I like the 16-20 range. I personally use a 6-20 on my AR, which allows me to focus better on small targets like squirels at 400 yards.

-Diamondback Tactical has target turrets which will make adjustments easier, and a very useful reticle for wind and hold overs. The lack of paralax adjustment is the only thing I don't like.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-...iflescope.html

-The Strike Eagle 3-18 is really what I would consider ideal for your build. I think it has all the features one needs, and a good zoom range. Its $100 over your stated budget though. But if you can afford it, you wouldn't be disaponted.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-...ebr-4-moa.html

-Primary Arms 4-14 MOA scope also intrigues me too. Its a lot of features for the money. I've been considering one for my next build.
http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-2-moa-reticle
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Old 06-01-2018, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Its okay, but the turrets are going to be a PITA to turn up and down, and the BDC isn't going to be very helpful in making longer range hits. Plus I don't think your gaining much with that 50mm bell on a 18" AR.

AO or side paralax adjustment is a huge benefit. Side adjustment knobs are much easier to use however. For high end magnafication on your build I like the 16-20 range. I personally use a 6-20 on my AR, which allows me to focus better on small targets like squirels at 400 yards.

-Diamondback Tactical has target turrets which will make adjustments easier, and a very useful reticle for wind and hold overs. The lack of paralax adjustment is the only thing I don't like.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-...iflescope.html

-The Strike Eagle 3-18 is really what I would consider ideal for your build. I think it has all the features one needs, and a good zoom range. Its $100 over your stated budget though. But if you can afford it, you wouldn't be disaponted.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-...ebr-4-moa.html

-Primary Arms 4-14 MOA scope also intrigues me too. Its a lot of features for the money. I've been considering one for my next build.
http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-2-moa-reticle
Damn that primary arms one has a lot going on for the price, might be worth a try. Thanks for the input!
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2018, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gun View Post
Second Focal Plane generally only holds zero at the magnification you zero it at, meaning if you zero at say 9 power of a 14 power scope your projectile will not track the same as it would at 9 power. Not a big deal if shooting 100 yds or even 200 yds, but out to 600 yards you could be talking feet off target.
What cheap scope are you using that can't hold zero and hits "feet off target"?
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Old 06-01-2018, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gun View Post

Then comes what you want out of it which will narrow your options. First Focal Plane is more expensive but your "zero"will remain the same no matter your magnification. Second Focal Plane generally only holds zero at the magnification you zero it at, meaning if you zero at say 9 power of a 14 power scope your projectile will not track the same as it would at 9 power. Not a big deal if shooting 100 yds or even 200 yds, but out to 600 yards you could be talking feet off target.


A scope holding zero has nothing to do with it being a second focal plane vs a first.

What changes is the value of your hashes or reticle. On a second focal plane scope your reticles value are only true at one power magnification, usually the highest. So if your trying to range a target or hold off you can only do that accurately at the one power setting.
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Old 06-01-2018, 3:54 PM
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My advice for a "long range" AR is to not over-do the magnification, unless it is JUST for shooting tiny groups on paper targets.

Here is my rule of thumb:

To shoot a target accurately you need to see it clearly enough, and to me "enough" means you can identify or resolve the outline of the target from its surroundings and find the apparent center. You don't need to see every single detail of the target in Ultra HD 4K in order to take a shot in confidence.

My vision is not 20/20 but I do not need glasses. I can see with naked eye the 6-inch diameter aiming black of an NRA 100-yard rifle target from 100 yards clearly enough to take a shot.

For every 100 yards I add to the target distance while keeping the actual size of the target at 6 inches, then I need to add 1X of magnification to maintain this level of clarity.

So in other words:

6-inch target @ 100 yards: 1X minimum magnification
6-inch target @ 200 yards: 2X minimum magnification
6-inch target @ 300 yards: 3X minimum magnification
...
6-inch target @ 600 yards: 6X minimum magnification

Keep in mind that if the target's actual size grows proportional to the target distance, such that the apparent size of the target stays the same with respect to my sights or reticle, then the required magnification also stays the same. For example, the aiming black of the NRA 600-yard target is 36 inches in diameter, and this is meant to be shot using iron sights.

6-inch target @ 100 yards: 1X minimum magnification
12-inch target @ 200 yards: 1X minimum magnification
18-inch target @ 300 yards: 1X minimum magnification
...
36-inch target @ 600 yards: 1X minimum magnification

Now if I am trying to spot my bullet holes from my shooting position using the rifle scope, and they are small .22 caliber holes on regular paper, not shoot-n-see splatter targets, then I need about 16X per 100 yards distance, if the glass quality is average, like a Vortex Viper PST. If I am looking through really clear glass, then I can see .22 caliber holes from 100 yards with 10X or 12X magnification.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd40 View Post
considering the Vortex Crossfire II 4-16x50 AO. seems to be well rounded and id like to be in that $350ish range
I’ve owned one Crossfire, sold and mounted many more. IMO there are a number of scopes for $350.00 that will blow a Crossfire out of the water. Crossfires have subpar glass, very short eye relief and a very narrow eye box at low magnification. It gets progressively worse as magnification increases. The Crossfire is the only name brand scope where I’ve ever felt eye stress just from mounting and bore sighting.

Above is my long answer. The short answer is I believe Crossfires suck.
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Old 06-03-2018, 9:10 AM
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I just ordered this one. I figure for the price its worth a shot. Lots of features. Well see

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-2-moa-reticle
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Old 06-03-2018, 9:33 AM
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I have a leupold ar mod 1 3-9 x 40 mm on one of mine
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Old 06-03-2018, 7:32 PM
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Even shooing a 77Gr bullet to the max effective range of an AR, a 1-6 or possibly 1-8 should do for most folks. If you want an inexpensive scope the Bushnell Elite series are, to my thinking, champions in the $/performance ratio. They are also often steeply discounted during sales.

There's others too. Several have been mentioned above. I'm a buy American guy myself and I have a Leupold 1-6 on mine. But it is heavy!

Glass is one of those 'buy once, cry once' things. Get the best scope you can afford. You will never regret it. Provided you don't trash it, glass never wears out either. Whereas you get something you're just really not satisfied with you'll end up spending more by having to replace it than you would've if you'd just gotten what you really wanted to begin with.

Last edited by sfarchitect; 06-03-2018 at 7:52 PM..
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Old 06-04-2018, 6:42 AM
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4-14ish for plinking on bench or prone. 1-4/6 if you want to carry that thing around like running and gunning.
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Old 06-04-2018, 4:31 PM
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I have a Nikon M-223 4-16 on an 18" White Oak Arm. upper, if I recall correctly with my prescription shooting glasses I can see my shots on white paper at 100 yards, and I can see whether I'm hitting the hanging steel targets at 400 - 500 yards. Decent scope for the money, looks like its running about $450 now.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:10 PM
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I just ordered this 1-6x24mm scope: https://www.natchezss.com/truglo-tru...t-reticle.html

It's gotten good reviews, includes the mount and nly cost $140 + $15 shipping. It's elling on Optics Planet for $215, which is the highest, but in the $140-150 range elsewhere. See: https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_...rms_wikiarms=0.

I don't do much "long range" shooting and I'll be happy if it's good out to 100 yards. Planning on buying a 24" varmint upper that I will probably put it on just so that I can do some "plinking" at 100.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd40 View Post
I just ordered this one. I figure for the price its worth a shot. Lots of features. Well see

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-2-moa-reticle
Nice choice. That should be more than enough for most any shooting you'll do. In my opinion, each rifle should have an optic that suits intended use.

I have:
3-9x on my 18" SPR
Red Dot on my 11.5" Pistol
1-4x on my 16" lightweight build
(all above are 5.56)
3-15x on my 16" 6.5 Grendel

Pick a reticle you like, and get the best quality that you can justify within your budget. I think you picked a solid starter scope that should suit you well for the range.
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Old 06-12-2018, 1:02 PM
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Go 20-22" for that distance. I have a leupold mod 1 ar 3-9 scope on my 20" 6.8 spc and it really can reach out there.
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Old 06-12-2018, 2:32 PM
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Leupold Mark AR, Mod. 1 (3x9x40) on my 18.5" SPR.



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Old 06-13-2018, 4:46 PM
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Leupold Mark AR, Mod. 1 (3x9x40) on my 18.5" SPR.
What Red Dot do you have offset? I'm thinking of doing the same type of setup on my 6.5.
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Old 06-13-2018, 5:17 PM
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What Red Dot do you have offset? I'm thinking of doing the same type of setup on my 6.5.

Aimpoint T-1


Just gotta switch over to offset BUIS to go with it! Those weren't around when I had it built, in 2011.
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Old 06-13-2018, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
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Aimpoint T-1


Just gotta switch over to offset BUIS to go with it! Those weren't around when I had it built, in 2011.
Very nice. I have the 3-9x VX-R Patrol with some cheap offset irons, and it's a great combo, but I think an offset dot would be even more fun. Though I'm leaning toward the PA Advanced Micro to save some $$ versus Aimpoint.
I'm also looking for a Mark AR Mod1 in 1-4x or 3-9x for my lightweight rifle. The Firedot TMR and SPR are my favorite reticles!


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Old 06-15-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd40 View Post
Im building a longer range ar. 18 barrel and bipod. Building this to have a good semi auto rifle that can reach out to that 300-600 yard range.

Ive never had a scoped rifle.

My question is, what would be the ideal magnification range?

Im looking at some of the vortex optics. Not trying to break the bank.

Thanks
Well the rule is 1x for every 100 yards. You say that 600 is your max then 6x But I usually go above that.

Personally it doesn't matter what rifle or the caliber the rifle is or the max range i might shoot at. I like 20x at the upper end of the power range.
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Old 06-20-2018, 3:11 PM
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If UTG 14X44 can handle recoil from my 308 and upto 600 yards. It should work well for your 556 for only around $130.
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Old 06-21-2018, 7:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd40 View Post
I just ordered this one. I figure for the price its worth a shot. Lots of features. Well see

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-2-moa-reticle
That's a good one, it should cover you for the range that you need. Wish I could afford the one we used in the Corp. it clocks in at around $1,500.
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Old 06-21-2018, 9:51 AM
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I just bought one of these but it hasn't arrived yet. Got it brand new for 20 USD bux. Matter of fact, it should be this very one. I think I lucked out for once!
It's a Eurolux AR4X22WA.
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