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  #121  
Old 01-22-2016, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
I tend to agree, it sounds as if the bargain days of the CMP are over, at least for pistols. The Garands are still a good value.
Hit my knees every day for Orest and his doorstep delivered $600 Service Grades.

And, yes... even today, they are still a very good deal for a forged receiver USGI Service Grade M1 Garand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcav View Post
At first I was bummed when I found out late last year that Colt would stop selling to CA but then I compared my Springfield 1911 to my Colt 1911 and realized I wouldn't be missing anything. Springfield makes a damn fine 1911.

Yeah the CMP M1s are a great deal. We will see what kind of condition these rack grade 1911s will be like if they ever make it into civilian hands. Could be another Classic Firearms M39 level fiasco.


Bet on it...




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  #122  
Old 01-23-2016, 3:45 AM
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Or they could very well look like this:



As I have said ad nauseum, these are not going to be someones primary shooter. Not everyone thinks that just because you have a particular gun, you have to shoot it.

Last edited by highpower; 01-23-2016 at 3:48 AM..
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  #123  
Old 01-23-2016, 7:09 AM
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Hum CMP just built a 20 million dollar shooting facility , ya think maybe they have to charge something for these 1911's???\
As far as getting them for free you are incorrect. They have to pay shipping and associated fees to get them from the Army. Then there are costs to warehouse them, insurance, wages for armorers, secratarys, shipping,heat and electric bills. etc ,etc, etc.
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  #124  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:13 AM
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I won't be getting one. I'll be getting a dozen. Unless they set the limit at one.

Worst case scenario, you get something you could have found on the open market for $1,000. I'm going to say that often you're going to get something better. As has been said, you can't find decent USGI 1911s for under $1,000, and the CMP provenance will only add to the value of these pistols over time.
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  #125  
Old 01-23-2016, 9:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigsour7 View Post
"I'm willing to bet they will at least be shootable. Sure, they'll be mixed parts, mixed serial numbers, parts from decades apart, etc."


your literally willing to just throw away a grand or more for something that you have NO IDEA wtf your getting inside it. and decade old parts. look at the problems that new guns are having.

your literally paying that just for the slide, since it says "colt" on it, and some other patented numbers, and possibly a pony engraved in it. which is what everyone wants... i guess.

for the collection.....lol
LOL!

YOU think $1,000 is a lot of money!

I guess everything, to everyone, has a limit or is relative. Oh well.
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  #126  
Old 01-23-2016, 10:02 AM
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CMP will set a new market price point when these pistols start selling. Hopefully prices are driven down.
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  #127  
Old 01-23-2016, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post



GR
you realize that the beat up pistol is a Singer, and the lowest serial at that?

Hell yes I'd give $1k for it.
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  #128  
Old 01-23-2016, 1:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Bee View Post
any of y'all doubting the potential value of one of these just isn't paying attention..

either way, less bidders leaves me a better chance of landing one I want

gunbroker only keeps auction ads for 90 days, but a few years ago a correct Navy verified USS Texas shipment went for $15k

here's just a few from my recent watch list;

US MARINE ! RARE 1911 Colt - 1913 sold $4800

Colt M1911A1 US Army Marked NAVY Mfg 1939 RARE NR sold $4775

Colt 1911 US Navy MFG 1913 45 ACP WWI Orig Blue NR sold $4312

1942 COLT 1911 A1 1911A1 ARMY COLONELS PROVENANCE sold $4355

mixmasters and even incomplete guns with at least one rare part fetch $1k+ frequently..

Colt 1911 US Navy frame & receiver USS NY 1913 sold $1350
I sold my WB 1942 correct A1 for $3800 a couple years ago. I had it for a few years and never fired it. I was planning on picking up a war horse for around a K when I found one, havent seen one yet.
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  #129  
Old 01-23-2016, 1:51 PM
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I will not buy any gun that I can't shoot, buy a classic car that I can't drive, marry a beautiful woman that I can't.......
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  #130  
Old 01-23-2016, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by highpower View Post
...As I have said ad nauseum, these are not going to be someones primary shooter. Not everyone thinks that just because you have a particular gun, you have to shoot it.
The CMP is gouging, pure and simple.


It's

Civilian Marksmanship Program

not

Collector Manipulated Pricing


This is nonsense... bordering on Profiteering.




GR
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  #131  
Old 01-23-2016, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by joefrank64k View Post
They'll sell like hotcakes at that price. Complete sellout.
"A fool and his money are soon are soon parted."

This isn't like the Garand, where there is not a superior source commercially. These are rattle-box 1911s which, from a performance standpoint, are inferior to new guns available at half the price. For $1,000, I'd rather buy a Kimber or Springfield Loaded.

Collectors, knock yourselves out. But this is NOT what is supposed to be the purpose of the CMP.
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  #132  
Old 01-23-2016, 5:18 PM
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From a value perspective, if you had to decide between a new $700 dollar 1911 and a rattle box 1911 which would you get?

The only people who see value in a rattle box USGI 1911 are collectors. Might as well price it at collector prices. Even then it will sell out quickly.
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  #133  
Old 01-23-2016, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stephewc View Post
From a value perspective, if you had to decide between a new $700 dollar 1911 and a rattle box 1911 which would you get?

The only people who see value in a rattle box USGI 1911 are collectors. Might as well price it at collector prices. Even then it will sell out quickly.
That is an outstanding idea.

Even More profit for the "non-profit" CMP, right?

Since Collectors are the pornographers of Marksmanship, put'em at $2,500... and then sit back and listen to those cackling for a collector bargain puddle their pampers.

Absolutely correct.
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  #134  
Old 01-23-2016, 7:21 PM
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I thought the primary purpose of the CMP was to promote gun safety and marskmanship. Selling M1 rifles at reasonable prices that can be shot all day long with no worries about reducing the value is compatible with their mission. Selling heavily worn "safequeen/wallhangers" that only the upper middle class can afford and probably should not be taken out more than once a year for a few rounds, does not sound compatible to the CMP's mission.
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  #135  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:04 PM
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Its probably been asked but how many 1911A1s has colt supplied since the korean war? Were there Vietnam era or later shipments made? I believe most 1911s used during vietnam were WW2 era. It would be nice to get a military marked Vietnam or even DS era Colt if they exist.
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  #136  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by major burnout View Post
Its probably been asked but how many 1911A1s has colt supplied since the korean war? Were there Vietnam era or later shipments made? I believe most 1911s used during vietnam were WW2 era. It would be nice to get a military marked Vietnam or even DS era Colt if they exist.
Good luck with that. IIRC, the Navy & Marines got their last shipment of frames & slides in early 1945. Those were carried all the way until they switched to M9's. As I've said before, the ones we had when I was in in the early 1980's were totally beaten to death and pieced together from odds and ends. I'd suspect that most of what CMP is going to be getting will start out as Frankenguns and I'm not sure if they'll take the time and effort to match Remington-Rand frames with Remington-Rand slides. And I'd imagine anything really nice or rare will end up on the auction block, vs. going out retail.

When they start offering them up, your best bet would be to go to the CMP store in Ohio and pick out out right off the shelf. If not, you're going to get whatever they ship you.
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  #137  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:33 PM
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If the pistols do get made available and they are sold you can take it to the bank that anything worth cherry picking is going to be picked and auctioned. CMP will make sure they are safe and serviceable and that's pretty much it, ya they might be "grading" them. They will most likely will have different grades and those different grades will be different prices. I am far more interested in seeing what kind of ammo they might offer than the pistols. I carried a .45 in 2 Theaters of Operation as well as worked on some of them at the AMU at Fort Benning in training to be the Armour at a AMU at Fort Stewart GA and one heck of a lot of them we considered "not very good" in condition. Franken .45's is a fitting term, yep I saw some nice ones but not many that weren't in hands that weren't going to let them go. Those of you that can hardly wait to get one of those .45's should you be able to.......enjoy them.
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  #138  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by farmerjoe View Post
Good luck with that. IIRC, the Navy & Marines got their last shipment of frames & slides in early 1945. Those were carried all the way until they switched to M9's. As I've said before, the ones we had when I was in in the early 1980's were totally beaten to death and pieced together from odds and ends. I'd suspect that most of what CMP is going to be getting will start out as Frankenguns and I'm not sure if they'll take the time and effort to match Remington-Rand frames with Remington-Rand slides. And I'd imagine anything really nice or rare will end up on the auction block, vs. going out retail.

When they start offering them up, your best bet would be to go to the CMP store in Ohio and pick out out right off the shelf. If not, you're going to get whatever they ship you.
Thats kinda what I thought. I read a few years ago that some Marine SOC armorers were fitting ww2 frames to new springfield slides and barrels(no I dont expect those to pop up).

I dont think im going to ohio anytime soon.
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  #139  
Old 01-23-2016, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
you realize that the beat up pistol is a Singer, and the lowest serial at that?

Hell yes I'd give $1k for it.
Me too. It sold for $80,500 in 2010 http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/51/lid/1954

Here's the other side



I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least one Singer frame and at least one Singer slide among the 100,000 pistols the CMP has. They'll match them up, put them on the CMP Auction, and rake in the money. It goes to a good cause (promoting marksmanship activities).
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  #140  
Old 01-24-2016, 8:04 AM
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Another rare one that was extremely desirable in the area where I lived. The Union Switch and Signal plant that made these was about 10 miles from my house and about 5 miles from the gun shop I worked at in college. When a US&S pistol showed up as a trade in you'd think it was made by Mr. Colt himself. Several passed through the shop in the 3-4 years I worked there which made me wonder if any had left the plant in a lunchbox.

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  #141  
Old 01-24-2016, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
The CMP is gouging, pure and simple.

It's

Civilian Marksmanship Program

not

Collector Manipulated Pricing

This is nonsense... bordering on Profiteering.

GR




.
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  #142  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post



.
The CMP gets Government Property, paid for by the Taxpayer, Given to them for liquidation to Marksmanship qualified U.S. citizens.

Who's the entitlement Socialist, Comrade?

Collectors are the pornographers of Marksmanship.




GR
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  #143  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
The CMP gets Government Property, paid for by the Taxpayer, Given to them for liquidation to Marksmanship qualified U.S. citizens.

Who's the entitlement Socialist, Comrade?

Collectors are the pornographers of Marksmanship.




GR
I have changed my mind. You DESERVE a government 1911. In fact they should give you one and pay to ship it to you also. After all, you are in the US and you are entitled to free stuff from the government. I mean gee whiz, these were bought 70+ years ago at taxpayers expense and it is only fair that you should have one.

Maybe if you write them enough letters they will send you some free ammo too?
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  #144  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
The CMP is gouging, pure and simple.


It's

Civilian Marksmanship Program

not

Collector Manipulated Pricing


This is nonsense... bordering on Profiteering.




GR
You are 100% on the money. There's a lot of marksmanship programs out there why should only they get out tax paid for weapons? Yes you are correct I'm no CMP fanboy
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  #145  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:56 PM
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While CMP may not be perfect you guys seem to forget something. If it wasnt for DCM and CMP there would be no Garands, carbines, 1903's etc. etc. etc, on the market. They would have all have gone the way of Captain Crunch and no one would have ever had a chance to buy them
Maybe you should step back and look at the big picture

Also these weapons are not given to CMP, there are associated costs 2-3 million dollars paid annually to the Army plus costs to run the organization.

To many people speaking untruths and dont know the facts
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  #146  
Old 01-24-2016, 1:04 PM
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Boy....there sure are a lot of whiny taxpayers who actually paid taxes themselves, for these.45's out there. I never realized there were so many on calguns looking for free handouts that someone else paid for.
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  #147  
Old 01-24-2016, 1:16 PM
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Boy....there sure are a lot of whiny taxpayers who actually paid taxes themselves, for these.45's out there. I never realized there were so many on calguns looking for free handouts that someone else paid for. :yrolleyes:
Free handouts? Whiny taxpayers? No one here on Calguns is looking for a free hand out that I've read. Where did you read that? No one in whining just why do they only get? I'm sure just like alot of other surplus out there they would be available, and the Garands were. Not perfect but if more were available there would a lot more nice ones available. Our wonderful government just aint going throw our nice surlplus in the trash can.

I can't wait to hear the rumors of what the 1911's will auction for.
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  #148  
Old 01-24-2016, 1:24 PM
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Dig around, you'll see claims of these being paid for by taxpayers, and the CMP shouldn't be making one cent profit on these. So yeah, when you start squawking about taxpayer this or taxpayer that, it just sounds stupid. Where is the relevance at this point, 70 or so years later??? If Obobo or Hildabeast had their way, every single pistols would be fed to Capt. Crunch. The nice or rare pistols will of course be auctioned and will go for stupid money....and the will sell....
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  #149  
Old 01-24-2016, 1:50 PM
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They are not claims. CMP didn't pay for them. Stop picking on Captain Crunch he has nothing to do with with this thread.
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  #150  
Old 01-24-2016, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by peppermintman View Post
They are not claims. CMP didn't pay for them. Stop picking on Captain Crunch he has nothing to do with with this thread.
Again this is incorrect, go back and read my posts. There is a large amount of money paid out by CMP for cost sto the Army
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  #151  
Old 01-24-2016, 2:58 PM
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Again this is incorrect, go back and read my posts. There is a large amount of money paid out by CMP for cost sto the Army
Originally the taxpayer bought them. So what is the deal CMP has with the government? Does CMP buy them directly? I think many would love to know exactly how CMP get the Garands and now will be getting the 1911's. I've been searching for a long time on the way CMP gets the surplus but can't find the information. $1000 for an unknown conditon is kind of high to me. I won't be a buyer unless I know it's not a mix master pistol.
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  #152  
Old 01-24-2016, 3:27 PM
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Can a novice buy vintage 1911's and remix parts? If so, why not buy a dozen pistols, remix parts into a fine example, and sell off the others?
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  #153  
Old 01-24-2016, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by highpower View Post
As I have said ad nauseum, these are not going to be someones primary shooter. Not everyone thinks that just because you have a particular gun, you have to shoot it.
What's the point of having a gun if you don't shoot it?

These 1911's were built specifically as tools to fight in a war, i. e. to be used. Maybe some people see them as museum pieces, but to me, that's dishonouring the gun's purpose. You honour them best by taking them to the range and using them. I know, "Jay Leno and his collector cars" and all that, but this is guns. It's different.

I think it'd be great to be able to affordably purchase a USGI 1911 through the CMP. For what they are, $1,000 starting price is not "affordable", compared to the new 1911's available.
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  #154  
Old 01-24-2016, 5:22 PM
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Anyone ever think that CMP gouges because they want to keep more jobs once the Garands run out? I would think a lot of them would be laid off once there is nothing to sell or the money starts running dry.
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  #155  
Old 01-24-2016, 5:23 PM
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Anyone ever think that CMP gouges because they want to keep more jobs once the Garands run out? I would think a lot of them would be laid off once there is nothing to sell or the money starts running dry.
Didn't seem to be many folks working there the time I was in the Ohio store.
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  #156  
Old 01-24-2016, 5:48 PM
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Yes but not everyone is a volunteer that works for free.
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Old 01-24-2016, 7:10 PM
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Anyone ever think that CMP gouges because they want to keep more jobs once the Garands run out? I would think a lot of them would be laid off once there is nothing to sell or the money starts running dry.
The CMP has already began transition to servicing what they sold. The technicians who were previously cleaning and preparing the Garands, 1903's, carbines, and 1917's for sale are now rebarreling, restocking, and accurizing those same Garands, 1903's, carbines, and 1917's.

I doubt many will be laid off.
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  #158  
Old 01-24-2016, 8:40 PM
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Gee some people acting as if he CMP was offering us Mana from Heaven, as if no price would be too high. I was hoping for a starting price of 700.00
IMO CMP has gone a little down hill since Orest left.

The only reason people think these pistols are worth what they are currently is due to the lack of them in the market. When I was a kid I remember seeing surplus 1911's for $65.00.
Now of CMP does start to sell them the market will see 100 K of them eventually hit the market.
CMP is relying on the Beanie Baby mentality for sales.

Just remember, rarity creates value for collectors. Over time there will be 100k more on the open market, which will decrease the investment value of these pistols.
As far as the "piece of history" claim as a value, there is no way of knowing if the pistol saw action or was the side arm for a non combatant.

After the two price increases for Ammo, I was done buying from CMP. Although, I did have hope when the possibility of 1911 sales was announced.

Last edited by teetsjones; 01-24-2016 at 8:42 PM..
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:44 PM
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So you all think CMP wouldn't have gouged these guns if Orest was still around? If someone wants to waste their money so be it it is their choice. I'm curious to what they will be auctioning off and at what price.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:26 AM
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'm with Garndimal. The CMP does appear greedy. I look at it this way: The CMP wants to sell me a non-returnable 1911, on a luck of the draw basis, from a cherry picked lot, all at market prices! Not to mention jumping through the CMP hoops to begin with. We also know the 1911 re-arsenal work was not as good as the M1 reworks were. The only good reasons to buy from CMP are convenience and a certificate. Otherwise, the CMP deal poses more of a risk than an opportunity.
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