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A "thousand" is mostly metaphor in the Bible. As for the word "day" or "days" in the creation account of Genesis, here's a great explanation I found online in its simplest form:
"The “days” of the creation week are divided into periods of light and darkness (vv. 4-5).The “days” are distinguished from “years” (v. 14). And the “days” are subsequently defined by Moses as the same type of “day” as the Sabbath which the Hebrews were required to observe (Ex. 20:11).There are other reasons for the view that the creation days must be literal, but this should suffice for the present." Yes, as far as Genesis' explanation, I too believe in a literal six day (6- consecutive 24hour periods) time period for God's creation.
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It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs -ΙΧΘΥΣ <>< Last edited by TrailerparkTrash; 12-03-2016 at 10:07 PM.. |
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Gentlemen, First of all I want to thank you for taking to God's Word!
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another. You may want to listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIJjZgp6XxU I respect Dennis Prager and Hugh Ross, but I hold God was wiser and more powwerful than all. When we are in the present of God, all will be revealed. God Bless! Last edited by ghostwong; 12-05-2016 at 6:57 PM.. |
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I am sorry I didn’t get back to you in time, I usually take the weekend off from CalGuns. In examining what Jesus and Paul believed regarding creation, we have to look at their words from a conceptual view point. Jesus always spoke of creation (in how it relates to Genesis) in a literal sense; Mark 10:6 or Luke 11:50-51. In John 5:45-47 Jesus challenged his listeners regarding believing the writings of Moses in likeness to believing Him (If they would believe Christ, they should also believe what Moses had written). Regularly Jesus treated the accounts of Genesis as historical fact (Adam and Eve, Noah, etc….). Jesus, who spoke truth through allegory whenever appropriate, never did so when relaying wisdom of the early days of man and his relations with God. As for Paul, in Acts 17:24–31, Paul says that every nation has come from one man. In 1 Corinthians 11:8, Paul writes that ‘man did not come from woman, but woman from man’. And in 15:45 and 47, as well as 1 Timothy 2:13–14 he refers to Adam as the First Created Man. These all indicate a literal understanding of Genesis. I believe these examples give a stronger position that if a person believes these writings to be the Word of God, then a literal approach to Genesis is necessary. But I still believe there is enough space in these examples to allow for some valid points to the contrary.
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Mark 16:16 Last edited by WASR10; 12-05-2016 at 8:22 PM.. |
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Mark 16:16 |
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At the risk of being banned (again), I cannot subscribe to the simplistic 6 days and then he rested ... in the time frame we know as 24 hours.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/...enesis_en.html It is clear that the Sun/Moon/stars were not situated until the 3rd day. No morning, no evening. They were created but not in play. And I am being ultra-literal here. . |
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One day...... We will all know. Be patient
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My worst day shooting is better than my best day at work. The power of Gun free Zones https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=hnBWa_xJz6A In California we're called "Wacko right-wing gun toting nut jobs with an arsenal" most other states just call us People. |
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That said, according to the Scriptures, death did not exist before sin. To clarify: are you suggesting that you believe death did exist before sin? If so, where would you find that in the Scriptures?
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b Last edited by Not a Cook; 12-05-2016 at 8:59 PM.. |
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Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. There is much more to these verses than may, at first, seem apparent.
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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No hammer here. I've only been banned once because someone misunderstood what I ment. I'm a pretty good boy most of the time
I believe the Bible says we will understand all when we get to heaven. That's why I say be patient.
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My worst day shooting is better than my best day at work. The power of Gun free Zones https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=hnBWa_xJz6A In California we're called "Wacko right-wing gun toting nut jobs with an arsenal" most other states just call us People. Last edited by DRoberts12345; 12-05-2016 at 8:48 PM.. |
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WRT post #50
I respectfully read that, and have studied it for years. And stand by what I wrote. There is interpretation between the creation of dark and light, and when they were implemented. I am clearly over my head here, so with that will relinquish this post. . |
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A "day" is not 24 hours until the Earth settled into its orbit. What demarked a "day" when there was simply light separated from darkness? That was not our own sun. And a Lord's Day is not 1000 years, it is AS 1000 years. That is a simile. Not literal. It merely denotes that God's perception of time is on a vastly different scale from ours, and 1000 was a pretty big number to ancient agrarians.
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On a side note and with this topic at hand, I feel compelled to put in my own .02cents worth of personal commentary on the matter...
One of the biggest paradigms some believers as well as most secularists dig themselves into, is assuming that the Bible "should be" able to have an answer to some, if not ALL of life's questions within the pages of the text itself. If they can't find the answer they're looking for, those same people believe that the Bible is somehow "contradictory" or "wrong" when it comes to things like the creation account, the flood, the Exodus, slavery, ethics, sin, time, space, physics, zoology, biology, mythology, the transfiguration, Satan, God, The Resurection, The Ascension, Israel, The 2nd Coming etc... take your pick. Some tend to think or question the Bible's validity by pointing out in their own minds preconceived notions and misconceptions of presumed "contradictions," "errors," and/or "miscalculations" within the 66 books. Many vainly attempt to critically compare the Bible to a science text book of some sort. I know that the Bible does NOT contradict itself. I realized long ago that the Bible is indeed NOT a science text book, nor was it ever intended to be portrayed as one. Taking it one step deeper, neither is it a book on zoology, biology, chemistry, physics, weather, nor medicine. It's not a self-help book on attaining "happiness" nor answers to one's financial problems. Lastly, the Bible is definitely NOT a book designed to fix all of societies problems! But all of these things are real cognitive questions who's answers are important and often indisputable. So questions about God are of the same type. They are not scientific. If science in its endeavor fails to detect God, so what? Science in all of its power, is utterly incompetent to refute God. Just because scientists don't see a cause, doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means science hasn't found it yet. Maybe someday they will. In conclusion and keeping it all in perspective, the Bible was solely written for one thing and one thing only... That is, TO POINT THE WAY TO SALVATION. Period.
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It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs -ΙΧΘΥΣ <>< |
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It's defined in the first few chapters |
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Thanks! Bill
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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The "gap theory" requires death before Adam first sinned, and all "old earth theories" and "macro-evolutionary theories" likewise require death before Adam first sinned. What other theoretical interpretation exists of Genesis 1 which posits that the days of creation are not literal days and which theory does NOT also include death before Adam first sinned? Please be specific.
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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I stated at least twice that I do not have firm belief on how creation, only that creation happened.
I know the very few words mentioned in the Bible concerning creation do not give sufficient information to build a dogmatic doctrine and they were not intended to.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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What other portions of the Scriptures likewise "do not give sufficient information to build a dogmatic doctrine and they were not intended to", and how do you know this?
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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1 Every gap theory I have heard relies on the literal 6 day creation. So throwing around "gap theory" as if it is a trump card hurts 6 day creation more than helps.... 2. Old earth does not imply macro evolution. Macro evolution does not require death but that is irrelevant. You are conflating different things. Again, Genesis 1 does not require the days to be interpreted as literal day. To start saying that because a person may not believe in the same interpretation of the word yom means all sorts of things that it doesn't is not honest. We do not know how long Adam lived before Eve. We do not know how long Adam lived with Eve before he sinned. If Adam could have loved say 10,000 years before sinning. Why could not the 4th day been 1000 years with out there being death? The burden is on you, not me.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns Last edited by JeffC; 12-07-2016 at 6:30 PM.. |
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I Study. Quote:
based upon your principles of hermeneutics a person can take any portion of scripture and build any doctrine they wish.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Also, I'm curious: what old earth theory does not involve macro-evolution? Quote:
So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. Genesis 5:5 We also know that Adam was only 130 years old when Seth was born (ref. Genesis 5:3). The burden for what? To show that the Scriptures mean what they plainly state?
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b Last edited by Not a Cook; 12-07-2016 at 6:55 PM.. |
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The burden to justify your claim in the positive, not have someone falsify them.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Support for this claim has already been provided in this thread. As a brief summary of such support, please note the following:
What has not been supported from the Scriptures is the belief that each "yom" in Genesis 1 denotes an EXTENDED PERIOD of time.
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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Apparently you have an interpretation you want to believe, and anything that challenges that interpretation is a challenge to your faith which you no doubt invested much time and effort in. Quote:
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If you do not like 2nd Peter here is a very small synopsis of the use of the word yom: Time: Genesis 4:3, it says "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months. Again, in Deuteronomy 10:10, it refers to a "time" equal to forty days. In I Kings 11:42, it says "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years." In this case, Yom translated as the word "time" is equivalent to a 40 year period. In Isaiah 30:8, it says "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever." In this case, Yom is equal to "forever." How long is forever? An infinite number of years...billions upon billions upon billons of years. If Yom can equal trillions of years here, then why not billions of years in Genesis? Four times in the Old Testament Yom is translated "year." Important for you to note the use of the ordinal in conjunction with yom. In I Kings 1:1, "David was old and stricken in years..." In 2 Chronicles 21:19, "after the end of two years" and in the very next verse "Thirty and two years old." Finally, in Amos 4:4, "...and your tithes after three years." In each case, Yom represents years, not days.
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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If GOD can even begin to create life as we know it, which I believe he did, then why can't he create everything in 6 days? Our ways are not his ways. We can't even begin to understand the universe or life itself so why try to understand how he did it??
The Bible is meant to teach us so why would GOD inspire his prophets to record it as 6 days if it was anything else??
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"There is no greater feel than to be in control of 56 tons of steel and watching that 105mm round go down range and blow something up." |
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He could create creation in 6 milliseconds if he wanted to. God did not inspire his prophets to record a literal 6 day creation. Your modern translation may or may not infer that it is a literal 6 day(24 hour) creation but the text does not. If you want to jump to Genesis 2 the bible says creation happened in a single day. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens," which directly refutes Genesis 1. Could Genesis 1 be a little 6 day (24h) recorded, yes it could. Is there enough evidence from the text to be dogmatic about it? No way!
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Do you mean the individual creation days in Genesis 1 or the creation day in Genesis 2?
How can 6 individual 24 hour periods also be a single 24 hour period?
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Looks to me and some of my biggest Bible teaching heroes embrace the strong possibility of the gap. God creates the Earth. Seems to be a great catastrophe between v2 and 3. Darkness upon the face of the deep indicates an absence of God.Without form, tohu meaning a ruin,,void,bohu meaning emptiness [we lose real meanings with our english translations] Now say the verse with those true words, 'and the earth was ruined,destroyed and empty'... Is45;18 says He did not create the world in vain. Looks to me like something happened. Maybe Rev9 I saw a star fall from heaven[ satan hitting the earth, messing it all up].. Just a thought. I teach the youth about it but to look into it themselves. End result is always people looking into His Word...a good thing!
Doug
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Douglas Fetterly Fetterly Powders & Optics (707)292-0800 Last edited by Fetterly Powders; 12-08-2016 at 11:18 AM.. |
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Six, 24hr days. Numbered, evening and morning. Plus, a ton of other Hebrew grammatical structure as well as biblical support. The Hebrew grammar is so strong, that there can be no "gaps" in the six day creation. The Holy Spirit knew exactly how to structure the text so that it only adds up to six, literal 24 hour days, and then a day of rest.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns |
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Actually, it was Biblically correct as I wrote it. Have you ever studied Genesis in Hebrew? Translated it? Diagrammed it? worked through the lexical and syntactical issues? How many commentaries do you have on Genesis (and used - especially exegetical ones written for the Hebrew text?) How many books on creation? Ever taught Genesis 1 to a body of believers and answered their questions? In other words, are you qualified to debate the issue?
Just wondering...
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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If that is correct, please direct me to some information regarding this particular version of the "day-age theory" as I haven't yet come across it. All the versions of "day-age theory" that I've previously encountered originate from attempts to reconcile/harmonize "old earth" timelines (which involve death before the advent of man) with Genesis 1. If there's another version floating around out there, I would very much appreciate your help in learning about it. Quote:
In light of your favoring contextual interpretation, please consider the following passage: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 It is obvious that the "...six days you shall labor..." speaks of literal days, as does "... the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." In the very same, immediate context, we read, "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day." If the "six days" and the "seventh day" are literal, then so must the days of creation which are mentioned in the same context as the justification/basis for keeping the Sabbath day holy be likewise literal days. Quote:
If you really "favor the contextual interpretation", how do you get anything but a literal day for "yom" in Exodus 20:8-11? I'll admit that. Unfortunately, I have far too much pride; thankfully, the Lord isn't done with changing me yet. We all "fall prey to basic human narcissim" and will continue to do so until we are in His presence. But that's a little off-topic, isn't it? Quote:
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JeffC - I'm really not trying to annoy you. I'm a very simple person and am grateful that God has chosen to make known to a weak, foolish, simple "babe" like me the amazing truth of His gospel (ref. Luke 10:21 and 1 Corinthians 1:26-31). I take the Word of God at face value, and yes I do study it and study it (perhaps more than I let on in this thread) and am amazed at how rich are the depths of His word. I take "yom" in Genesis 1 to mean "literal day" for several reasons which I've previously listed. I can't get my simple head around any other meaning for "yom" in Exodus 20:8-11. I can't understand why so many folks posit "yom" in Genesis 1 to mean LONG periods of time and filling in those periods with old earth theories that include death occurring before Adam first sinned. I know that the majority of "day-age theory" adherents hold to "day-age theory" in order to attempt to reconcile/harmonize old earth timelines with Genesis 1. That said, I have a question for you: why don't you understand "yom" in Genesis 1 to be a literal day? Are you motivated by wanting to reconcile/harmonize a belief in an old earth with Genesis 1? Or is something else? What originally made you think to inject some long period of time into something that the Bible translators wrote as "day"?
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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For reasons I won't go into here, the events of Revelation 9 can't have occurred between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 (but that might best be a discussion for another time). SOMETHING could have theoretically happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 given the Hebrew terms used. However, it is equally important to remember that even IF something did happen between these first two verses, God has not seen fit to reveal it to us and what may be taught about "gap theory" is (at best) human conjecture without revelation from God. People teach VERY specific details about what supposedly happened during this supposed "gap", and in my experience those very specific details come from sources outside the Scriptures which are then used as "tools" for interpreting what the Scriptures do record. This is, at best, dangerous, for obvious reasons. In falls into the category of eisogesis rather than exegesis. That said, all of the versions of "gap theory" that I've come across posit MASSIVE death occurring between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. What adherents to this teaching haven't considered (in my experience) is that the Scriptures teach us elsewhere that death entered the cosmos through Adam's first sin (which obviously didn't happen until after Genesis 1:2). In other words, any theory which involves death (let alone the MASSIVE death theorized by many "gap theory" adherents) before Adam's first sin is contradicting what Scripture teaches. ^ Just something to consider.
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Regarding the 2nd Amendment: "...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason ("The Father of the Bill of Rights") Regarding Life and Death: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 The BIG question: "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?" Matthew 27:22b |
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I'm really interested to know what you're seeing! Thanks.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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