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  #1  
Old 10-19-2017, 5:13 PM
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Default DECLARATION OF COMMANDER DONALD BARNES

Courtesy of Michel & Associates:

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16. The “good cause” requirement allows Orange County and the State to limit the number of weapons that the public at large has access to immediately, which protects both officers and the public. Increasing the numbers of concealed weapons increases the threat and possibility of firearm violence to the community at large and to law enforcement officers.
Of course, now that Barnes is running for Orange County Sheriff he claims to be all for issuing permits. He claims to be issuing permits to 98% of applicants.
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Old 10-19-2017, 7:04 PM
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If Hutchens changed her view of CCWs (which we applaud and which seems legit given their rocketing # of CCWs over the years), I guess Barnes can sincerely change his view too. Right?

I'm not in OC so I don't have a dog in this fight (whatever fight it is).
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Old 10-19-2017, 7:55 PM
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Trump was against assault weapons before he was for them. Barnes' comments were over four years ago. He's seen the program evolve and has been part of the process. I spoke with one well regarded CCW trainer this weekend who's working on Barnes' campaign.

.

Last edited by Doheny; 10-19-2017 at 8:05 PM..
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Old 10-19-2017, 8:51 PM
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Yep, and look how well our President has worked out. Not very well to date and while I hope Trump the best, it isn't that clear that he was the best choice for the party to run. Anyway, this is not about Trump who I voted for.

This is about someone that said something diametrically opposite a scant 4 years ago. Perhaps he legitimately has changed what he believes, but I don't fully buy his story about how his experience with the post Peruta program has changed his mind about what he said under oath. Especially given that the D.C. circuit casts doubt on the 9th's en banc decision.

Did the 9th even hold that personal defense wasn't sufficient good cause or did it only hold that concealed carry is not protected by the 2A. That and state law leaves the OCSD discretion to accept personal defense as good cause.

That brings us to this nonsensical claim of Barnes about exposing OC to liability, as if there was no such thing as sovereign immunity.
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Old 10-19-2017, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Yep, and look how well our President has worked out. Not very well to date and while I hope Trump the best, it isn't that clear that he was the best choice for the party to run. Anyway, this is not about Trump who I voted for.

This is about someone that said something diametrically opposite a scant 4 years ago. Perhaps he legitimately has changed what he believes, but I don't fully buy his story about how his experience with the post Peruta program has changed his mind about what he said under oath. Especially given that the D.C. circuit casts doubt on the 9th's en banc decision.

Did the 9th even hold that personal defense wasn't sufficient good cause or did it only hold that concealed carry is not protected by the 2A. That and state law leaves the OCSD discretion to accept personal defense as good cause.

That brings us to this nonsensical claim of Barnes about exposing OC to liability, as if there was no such thing as sovereign immunity.

In defense, likely the entire OCSD was against CCW 5 years ago....not just Barnes. Hutchens was, too....and now they issue with little fanfare at a very high rate. There's at least proof in the pudding where the current administration is promoting CCW in a pretty open way, even to the point of helping individuals craft their Good Cause.

Will be interesting to hear about Harrington's personal talk at Artemis next week. I'm SURE Artemis' Steve Lieberman will blog about the candidates soon, I trust his thoughts.
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Old 10-20-2017, 2:54 PM
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A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?
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Old 10-20-2017, 3:29 PM
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Default 2015 OCSD survey

This is interesting. Barnes ranked very good in this but it leaves some questions open. Reading about the survey, it seems that Hutchens was leaning on its makers to come up with the right opinions.

Quote:
But AOCDS didn't sugarcoat its findings. For example, Assistant Sheriff Don Barnes, who received a "very good" rank of 4.21, prompted an employee to opine, "Excels in leadership, talented, warmhearted," with three other similarly praiseful comments. One deputy, however, stated, "Educated? Yes. Opinionated? Yes. Vindictive, petty and malicious? Absolutely." The union issued a straightforward conclusion: "Survey responses indicate that he is the most respected assistant sheriff and his presence inspires deputies to perform their best. There were few criticisms, but perhaps Barnes could improve on being less opinionated."
I am not sure, but assuming the above refers to the ranking for 2016, Barenes improved his score for 2015 of 3.94.

http://www.aocds.org/files/january-2015-oc-final.pdf

I still don't trust Barnes but will keep my mind open about him versus Harrington.
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Old 10-20-2017, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?

For one, I believe Steve Lieberman @Artemis Defense said he has spoken to one of the OCSD deputies who told him that. It was in his blog....and he reiterated that at the pre-CCW course I took.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?
My guess he got it from the CCW unit. I heard that nobody is being denied for good cause. My buddy said he heard they will work with the applicant to find something you do to meet the good cause requirements. The denials are from a lack of good moral character. The people who we don't want to have guns. You know the ones that have been convicted of crimes of violence or other lacking good moral character crimes. These applicants are the ones that most likely screw it up for the rest of us law abiding citizens by their stupid acts with their gun. Say all the BS you want, OC is pretty much a shall issue. They just don't issue to people who lack good moral character.

Chewy65 brought up the survey. What did it say about Harrington? Oh wait, he wasn't a manager so he wasn't rated. My buddy said Harrington was a nice guy but played his favorites and was quite arrogant at times. His humor offended many. He said he was a solid sergeant and knew his stuff as a sergeant. He wouldn't comment on if Harrington could run the department today. My buddy is retired too but still has many connections in the department.
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Old 10-21-2017, 8:39 PM
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Good for them if it is true that they just don't issue to people who lack good moral character. Just what does that mean? Is there any policy or guideline published by the OCSD or does that simply mean they don't issue if they don't like you? I know of at least one OC resident who was denied for lack of good moral character, but when he immediately reapplied and he was issued a permit. He never found out why he was initially denied. What gives with that?
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Good for them if it is true that they just don't issue to people who lack good moral character. Just what does that mean? Is there any policy or guideline published by the OCSD or does that simply mean they don't issue if they don't like you? I know of at least one OC resident who was denied for lack of good moral character, but when he immediately reapplied and he was issued a permit. He never found out why he was initially denied. What gives with that?
Friends don't always tell friends the truth to avoid embarrassment. Yes, their policy is online, but looks like nothing could make you happy except Harrington getting elected. If I had to guess Chewie65, you obviously don't like the current administration for whatever reason. I'm personally happy with the way things are, and as long as they remain the same, I'll be able to renew in the future. im just a common sense kind of a person, and your friend being denied and then approved makes no sense. At least to me.
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Old 10-23-2017, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
Friends don't always tell friends the truth to avoid embarrassment. Yes, their policy is online, but looks like nothing could make you happy except Harrington getting elected. If I had to guess Chewie65, you obviously don't like the current administration for whatever reason. I'm personally happy with the way things are, and as long as they remain the same, I'll be able to renew in the future. im just a common sense kind of a person, and your friend being denied and then approved makes no sense. At least to me.
The person is no more my friend than is any CalGunner and I agree that being denied and then approved makes no sense, which leaves me puzzled as to whether the CW program for which that Barnes claims credit makes any sense. For that matter, just what is his 2A policy. His slick web site makes it appear that he supports shall issue.

Quote:
Second Amendment
I support the 2nd amendment. State law authorizes the Sheriff to issue Concealed Weapon Permits to citizens who can show good cause. In my view any law abiding citizen who seeks a permit has the right to have one issued. In the last three years, under my leadership, OCSD has issued over 10,000 permits to residents. Not one person has misused their permit. Law abiding citizen are responsible gun owners and should have the ability to conceal carry if they believe it is necessary for their personal safety.
However he takes shots at Harrington's shall issue 2A policy. Is Barnes walking the talk?

Last edited by Chewy65; 10-24-2017 at 9:03 AM..
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Old 11-25-2017, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?
Thread is a bit old, but I was looking at OC Firearims Training Academy website and noticed this:

Quote:
98% APPROVAL RATE THROUGH THE COUNTY OF ORANGE RIGHT NOW FOR YOUR CA CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT
http://www.ocfirearmsacademy.com/california-ccw-course

.
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Old 01-06-2018, 2:21 PM
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Barnes is claiming a 98% CCW approval rate . . .

Quote:
Quote:
98% APPROVAL RATE THROUGH THE COUNTY OF ORANGE RIGHT NOW FOR YOUR CA CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT
http://www.ocfirearmsacademy.com/california-ccw-course
but OCSD doesn't have you pay your application fee unless you are approved? Apparently SDSO uses the same trick to claim a 95% pass rate.


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Of course the CCW pass rate is 95% because people are afraid to pay $105. to apply. You have never applied unless and until you fill out the forms and pay the fee. ( All those so called applications were being held 5 yrs ago were not treated as applications because the $105. was not paid. They were gaming the public) They have always prided themselves on having the high success rate and applicants have always been afraid of the blue haired ladies who scare them away from actually applying with the fee. Over the years numerous staff have told me "it's not too late to recind your application and it won't be held against you"I have applied a half dozen times and got LTC three of the 6 times. Always while dealing with SDCS licencing staff one gets the hint the that they don't want you there and you're wasteing your money. It is always good to have an approved or denied application on record for legal purposes in case you do defend yourself. I am going down soon to apply as a medically infirm old white guy who has history of many threats as a retired psych RN. It is true that if Gore wins again that he will be advertised as giving 90-95 % of CCW that are applied for by general population.
Mark Cleary
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Not to say that OC hasn't gotten a great deal more liberal with granting permits, but are they being granted at as high a rate as Barnes has claimed? We still have yet to see the numbers for 2017.

Last edited by Chewy65; 01-06-2018 at 2:23 PM..
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Old 01-07-2018, 8:05 PM
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The OC Register just ran an article on CCW holders that included this info on the number of permits granted:

In 2017, the Sheriff’s Department issued 7,274 concealed weapon permits, nearly doubling the number of permit holders in just 12 months, to 12,290.

The number of new permits issued this year is more than all the permits issued in Orange County since Sheriff Sandra Hutchens took office in 2008. The department said there are another 6,000 permit applications in the pipeline.


Full Article
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Old 01-07-2018, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by vocoder View Post
The OC Register just ran an article on CCW holders that included this info on the number of permits granted:

In 2017, the Sheriff’s Department issued 7,274 concealed weapon permits, nearly doubling the number of permit holders in just 12 months, to 12,290.

The number of new permits issued this year is more than all the permits issued in Orange County since Sheriff Sandra Hutchens took office in 2008. The department said there are another 6,000 permit applications in the pipeline.
By this time next year, OC should be closing in on 20,000 CCWers!
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by vocoder View Post
The OC Register just ran an article on CCW holders that included this info on the number of permits granted:

In 2017, the Sheriff’s Department issued 7,274 concealed weapon permits, nearly doubling the number of permit holders in just 12 months, to 12,290.

The number of new permits issued this year is more than all the permits issued in Orange County since Sheriff Sandra Hutchens took office in 2008. The department said there are another 6,000 permit applications in the pipeline.


Full Article
Interesting. At the end of 2016 OC had 9,444 active permits. http://www.ocsd.org/divisions/prof/prof

Double 9,444 would be 18,888, but your article reports that at the end of 2017 there were only 12,290. Doesn't 18,888 minus 12,290 = 6,598? Something doesn't balance.
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Old 01-08-2018, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Interesting. At the end of 2016 OC had 9,444 active permits. http://www.ocsd.org/divisions/prof/prof

Double 9,444 would be 18,888, but your article reports that at the end of 2017 there were only 12,290. Doesn't 18,888 minus 12,290 = 6,598? Something doesn't balance.
Hint: Don't forget renewals and that the permits are for two years, not one and aren't divided evenly across both years.

FWIW, I expect this year, IF we don't lose any issuing counties to antis, to have the greatest increase in CCW numbers EVER, due to so many counties switching to online apps and renewals.
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Last edited by Paladin; 01-08-2018 at 4:52 PM..
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Old 01-08-2018, 5:45 PM
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It still isn't close to balancing even if 95% of all expiring 2016 permit holders were not to apply for renewals. Somehow I don't think OCSD will be in any hurry to update the published numbers until after the upcoming election for Sheriff.
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Old 01-08-2018, 6:16 PM
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Of course, now that Barnes is running for Orange County Sheriff he claims to be all for issuing permits. He claims to be issuing permits to 98% of applicants.
Just ask him if he repudiates his previous position and statements.

OC in Dec 2010 had 687 active CCWs.

In Dec 2017 they had 12,290!

If Hutchens can change her position and practices to that degree, I won't assume Barnes can't as well.
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Old 01-08-2018, 6:22 PM
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Yep, and look how well our President has worked out. Not very well to date and while I hope Trump the best, it isn't that clear that he was the best choice for the party to run. Anyway, this is not about Trump who I voted for.
Huh what?
Do you live under a rock?
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Old 01-12-2018, 7:40 PM
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I don't think it's a coincidence that Barnes announced the arrest of the Lake Forest murder suspect today. Hutchens letting him get out in front of the camera? She's supporting his candidacy.
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Old 03-21-2018, 3:10 PM
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I don't think it's a coincidence that Barnes announced the arrest of the Lake Forest murder suspect today. Hutchens letting him get out in front of the camera? She's supporting his candidacy.
I met Don Barnes last week. (Personally) I was impressed and I will be voting for him.

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Old 03-21-2018, 4:21 PM
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I met Don Barnes last week. (Personally) I was impressed and I will be voting for him.

Be well
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Did you turn over your CCW permit to him?
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Old 03-21-2018, 7:25 PM
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So OC has a fairly lenient policy and Weiss is suing them. Which is why I don't give any cash to Weiss any longer. He is a loose cannon.
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Old 03-21-2018, 8:21 PM
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If the purpose of this thread was to make us wary of voting for Barns b/c he previously had an anti CCW sentiment (directly or implicitly), then is there ANY candidate with police background who had consistently espoused the need for more CCW's? I'm not aware of many (any?) candidates with police background who were trumpeting for CCWs WHILE THEY WERE COPS. Were there? This seems to underscore the AMAZING change of heart and mind from Sheriff Hutchens who came in and the first thing she did is revoke many of the CCW's issued by her crooked predecessor.
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Old 03-22-2018, 3:41 PM
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If the purpose of this thread was to make us wary of voting for Barns b/c he previously had an anti CCW sentiment (directly or implicitly), then is there ANY candidate with police background who had consistently espoused the need for more CCW's? I'm not aware of many (any?) candidates with police background who were trumpeting for CCWs WHILE THEY WERE COPS. Were there? This seems to underscore the AMAZING change of heart and mind from Sheriff Hutchens who came in and the first thing she did is revoke many of the CCW's issued by her crooked predecessor.
Is your point that you don't know of any candidates that were not pushing "shall issue" while they were employed by agencies with an anti CCW commander? Do you really think many LEO's want to publicly oppose the agency's top cop?
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Old 03-22-2018, 3:53 PM
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So OC has a fairly lenient policy and Weiss is suing them. Which is why I don't give any cash to Weiss any longer. He is a loose cannon.
To which suit do you refer?
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Old 03-25-2018, 5:15 PM
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I met Barnes today at the Costa Mesa gun show. I spoke with him for forty-five minutes about ccw. He is a very personable man and I am not stupid. I was watching his body language very carefully as well as what he was saying. I truly believe that this man is pro ccw. The OCSD ccw unit has become faster and more streamlined under his command. Bottom line is that OCSD is on the cusp of having 14,000 active permits and the goal is to have 20,000 in the near future. If he were not pro ccw than this would not be happening. I will be voting for him on June 5th. He is a solid candidate and he runs the ccw unit. All of the advances are due to his efforts at streamlining the permit process. New applicants don't have home visits to verify residency unless their is a question as to if they are being truthful about living in OC. This speeds up the process. Appointments are being done within thirty days now. Barnes is for sure getting my vote. There is a reason why OC has the most active permits in California. It is not because Barnes is against ccw. The opposite is the truth. He is VERY pro-ccw for law abiding citizens. Vote for him!!
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