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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1361  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:49 PM
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What regulations? There's nothing out yet.
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  #1362  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Helping to legitimize the state's new ideas of a legal featureless AR-15 as "OK" doesn't exactly help our cause, but go ahead and use your off hand if that makes you feel better.

A.W.D.
Don't get me wrong, I am not OK with what is being done. However, saying that "featureless" forces the operator to use their firearm in an unsafe manner is a bit of a stretch.

The law is passed, that part is over with. We should however continue to do our best to get it reversed and struck down. As of right now though, featureless is the best option for those of us who do not want to register. If the position of the safety is that big of a deal, get an ambidextrous safety.
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  #1363  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Aces and 8s View Post
Don't get me wrong, I am not OK with what is being done. However, saying that "featureless" forces the operator to use their firearm in an unsafe manner is a bit of a stretch.

As of right now, featureless is the best option for those of us who do not want to register. If the position of the safety is that big of a deal, get an ambidextrous safety.
Everything the state has legislated and passed based on nonsense is a stretch too.
I say use it the other way around.

Same with the fixed mag scenario that creates a hazardous situation that you cannot properly and safely clear in a mis/double-feed.

A.W.D.
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  #1364  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:55 PM
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Is there anything in the new regs that disallow our picture submissions to contain a dildo with DOJ written on it?

I mean come on people, let's talk about what's really important here...

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  #1365  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott5182 View Post
Must have high speed internet access.

- Must own a computer.

- Has knowledge and training to be able to use the internet.

- Has the knowledge and training to fully utilize said computer + internet.

- Must own or have access to a quality digital camera.

- Has the knowledge & ability to be able to take quality, clear digital photos photos.

- Has the knowledge and ability to create an account on a website and upload photos to said site.


So I understand that the higher courts see a Voter ID card requirement to vote to be too demanding of a Citizen to exercise their right to vote....

Now the state of Komifornia wants firearm enthusiast to do all of this to exercise their right to keep property that they already purchased legally with out becoming a felon?

UNREAL!!
And this discriminates against the Amish. How are they supposed to register their "assault weapons" when their religious practices forbid Internet usage?

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  #1366  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
I am pretty sure the Wizard of Awd was not referring to serial numbers when he suggested the firearms were being made less safe.
His point was the law wasn't requiring you to change your firearm. Which others claimed it makes it less safe, which I may agree with but wasn't my point.

My point is that the regulations do require some to modify they gun. This is something that wasn't required by all other registrations.
Further not all firearms can see made to comply as they suggest. So what are they to do?
  #1367  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:58 PM
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I don't know about you guys but I feel safer already.
  #1368  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
What regulations? There's nothing out yet.
They were Yesterday. Only negative changes from the first draft that was rescinded.

In the past, with a RAW, I was under the impression you could swap upper and caliber without issue. With the new Regs, I have no **** ing clue
  #1369  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
And this discriminates against the Amish. How are they supposed to register their "assault weapons" when their religious practices forbid Internet usage?

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They can ask their menonite friends or their friends on rumspringa to help them register.
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  #1370  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ocguy31 View Post
I don't know about you guys but I feel safer already.
You win the internet with that comment! Lol
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  #1371  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:08 PM
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I would just wait for the court battle. It's sure to be an epic failure on the part of DOJ.

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  #1372  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:12 PM
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At this point I don't think even a SCOTUS ruling will help us.

What's SCOTUS going to do to CA if CA does not comply with their ruling? CA is already going ahead with sanctuary city/states even though the Federal Govt told them no. When the 9th ruled in our favor with the 10 day period CA just refused to comply.
  #1373  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ocguy31 View Post
I don't know about you guys but I feel safer already.
I feel so safe that I'm going to give up all my firearms.
  #1374  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
At this point I don't think even a SCOTUS ruling will help us.

What's SCOTUS going to do to CA if CA does not comply with their ruling? CA is already going ahead with sanctuary city/states even though the Federal Govt told them no. When the 9th ruled in our favor with the 10 day period CA just refused to comply.
That's a bit of a stretch. CA would comply with SCOTUS if they found this bull crap to be unconstitutional, and it is.
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  #1375  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:28 PM
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Perhaps if we all discharge our guns into the ground at once, we can accelerate the overdue San Andreas earthquake and finally shear this socialist hellhole off into the open blue sea. Any boat-owning calgunners want to volunteer to schlep the sane back to the mainland?

Last edited by perfectsilence; 05-19-2017 at 3:34 PM..
  #1376  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:41 PM
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I thought the last ban in 2000 was bad... you gotta be a lawyer to understand the newest batch of bans and restrictions. Glad I'm moving to a free state. Sounds weird, but I have to thank the liberals for kicking me out of the CA cesspool to a nicer place in life. Gun laws are just a minor thing compared to the enormous overall clusterf*** that is CA.
  #1377  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
I would just wait for the court battle. It's sure to be an epic failure on the part of DOJ.
If it gets to the 9th circuit court you can expect the very dishonest Chief Judge Sidney Thomas to do whatever legal contortions are necessary to back the DoJ and the Legislature's idiotic blatherings.

See also: Peruta.
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  #1378  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by I. M. Nobody View Post
Under the new registration regulations it seems like once you register the rifle you can't change the caliber or configuration. If that is true then I assume I wont be able to legally change calibers.

Hope I'm wrong any thoughts ?
Listen to the CRPA webinar on 5/25 at noon. They are usually pretty good at clarifying the muddy water.
  #1379  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:05 PM
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Default Lawsuit challenging "unsafe design modifications forced by CA DOJ"?

OK bear with me. I know how poorly received any new legal idea can be about how we might fight back so I will not say this is "obvious" or "easy" or anything else but want to consider the following legal angle inspired by the new posts here:

The whole AW ban is a result of an alleged "public safety issue" even though we all know that baseball bats kill more people in the US than assault rifles or any other rifle. But the design modifications the CA-DOJ has just forced owners of the most popular rifle in the US to make will likely create new public safety issues and possibly kill some of us as follows...

1. Requiring a fixed magazine to be welded into place WILL eventually cause one of us to be unable to clear a common jam and someone will be injured/killed as they try to clear live rounds in a way unintended by the original design.

2. Requiring us to remove the originally designed pistol grip WILL cause one of us to drop a rifle when the unsafe fin grip alters the safe and ergonomic grip intended. One of us WILL eventually discharge a firearm this way and be injured or worse. There is no way the grips we are being forced to use are as safe as the pistol grip. This is often a 8-9 lb rifle which was intended to be held with a firm grip for safety.

3. Further the grip modifications being required to make make it impossible for most of us to engage the most important safety element in the original design - THE SAFETY. By mandating the re-design of the pistol grip the CA DOJ WILL cause one of us to be unable to engage his safety at a key moment or unable to disengage it at a key moment - either being life-threatening.

So in the interests of public safety the CA DOJ is taking the most common firearm in the US and forcing us to modify it to a more dangerous firearm than before. I suggest that when these accidents begin to happen perhaps the state will be liable for damages.

I will head off an obvious rebuttal which is that we are not being forced to make these changes - we could choose to register. However doing so costs us all money in the form of registration fees and loss of the rifle upon our death as well as imposing loss of freedom with the rifle (destination requirements, loss of loan, loss of transfer etc). So I maintain that we are being told: Either turn these rifles into what we tell you (fixed mag or fin grip etc) or have them restricted and taken when you die. Clearly most people are being forced to go featureless and that will be clear in a year or two when the low reg number are in.

Any amateur (or pro) attorneys think this is an angle we could pursue once we get an unfortunate test case victim soon? Or feel free to tell me I am stupid, naive and don't understand the real world...but you will have to line up behind my wife.
  #1380  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I. M. Nobody View Post
Under the new registration regulations it seems like once you register the rifle you can't change the caliber or configuration. If that is true then I assume I wont be able to legally change calibers.

Hope I'm wrong any thoughts ?
The regs don't say that its illegal. They seem to infer that firearms will not change in anyway with how they are handling the IDing, but they have not stated it is illegal nor does the law say its illegal.
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  #1381  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott5182 View Post
Must have high speed internet access.

- Must own a computer.

- Has knowledge and training to be able to use the internet.

- Has the knowledge and training to fully utilize said computer + internet.

- Must own or have access to a quality digital camera.

- Has the knowledge & ability to be able to take quality, clear digital photos photos.

- Has the knowledge and ability to create an account on a website and upload photos to said site.


So I understand that the higher courts see a Voter ID card requirement to vote to be too demanding of a Citizen to exercise their right to vote....

Now the state of Komifornia wants firearm enthusiast to do all of this to exercise their right to keep property that they already purchased legally with out becoming a felon?

UNREAL!!
I was just going to say the same thing. Requiring a voter ID card in California is seen by the courts and DOJ here as voter suppression and undue burden, yet requiring people to have access to internet, have knowledge of what is going on, have the ability to read through complex laws like a lawyer, own technology like computers or cameras, just to be able to exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms is seen as acceptable, or even "necessary". How progressive we are!

Oh I forgot, we are also required to pay fees for the privilege of registration!
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Last edited by MajorSideburns; 05-19-2017 at 4:10 PM..
  #1382  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familyfarm View Post
OK bear with me. I know how poorly received any new legal idea can be about how we might fight back so I will not say this is "obvious" or "easy" or anything else but want to consider the following legal angle inspired by the new posts here:

The whole AW ban is a result of an alleged "public safety issue" even though we all know that baseball bats kill more people in the US than assault rifles or any other rifle. But the design modifications the CA-DOJ has just forced owners of the most popular rifle in the US to make will likely create new public safety issues and possibly kill some of us as follows...

1. Requiring a fixed magazine to be welded into place WILL eventually cause one of us to be unable to clear a common jam and someone will be injured/killed as they try to clear live rounds in a way unintended by the original design.

2. Requiring us to remove the originally designed pistol grip WILL cause one of us to drop a rifle when the unsafe fin grip alters the safe and ergonomic grip intended. One of us WILL eventually discharge a firearm this way and be injured or worse. There is no way the grips we are being forced to use are as safe as the pistol grip. This is often a 8-9 lb rifle which was intended to be held with a firm grip for safety.

3. Further the grip modifications being required to make make it impossible for most of us to engage the most important safety element in the original design - THE SAFETY. By mandating the re-design of the pistol grip the CA DOJ WILL cause one of us to be unable to engage his safety at a key moment or unable to disengage it at a key moment - either being life-threatening.

So in the interests of public safety the CA DOJ is taking the most common firearm in the US and forcing us to modify it to a more dangerous firearm than before. I suggest that when these accidents begin to happen perhaps the state will be liable for damages.

I will head off an obvious rebuttal which is that we are not being forced to make these changes - we could choose to register. However doing so costs us all money in the form of registration fees and loss of the rifle upon our death as well as imposing loss of freedom with the rifle (destination requirements, loss of loan, loss of transfer etc). So I maintain that we are being told: Either turn these rifles into what we tell you (fixed mag or fin grip etc) or have them restricted and taken when you die. Clearly most people are being forced to go featureless and that will be clear in a year or two when the low reg number are in.

Any amateur (or pro) attorneys think this is an angle we could pursue once we get an unfortunate test case victim soon? Or feel free to tell me I am stupid, naive and don't understand the real world...but you will have to line up behind my wife.
You're not stupid, it's all logical and most of what you iterate is in the Michel lawsuit challenging the validity of the AWCA as a whole.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1383  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familyfarm View Post
we all know that baseball bats kill more people in the US than assault rifles or any other rifle.
We do?
  #1384  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familyfarm View Post
OK bear with me. I know how poorly received any new legal idea can be about how we might fight back so I will not say this is "obvious" or "easy" or anything else but want to consider the following legal angle inspired by the new posts here:

The whole AW ban is a result of an alleged "public safety issue" even though we all know that baseball bats kill more people in the US than assault rifles or any other rifle. But the design modifications the CA-DOJ has just forced owners of the most popular rifle in the US to make will likely create new public safety issues and possibly kill some of us as follows...

1. Requiring a fixed magazine to be welded into place WILL eventually cause one of us to be unable to clear a common jam and someone will be injured/killed as they try to clear live rounds in a way unintended by the original design.

2. Requiring us to remove the originally designed pistol grip WILL cause one of us to drop a rifle when the unsafe fin grip alters the safe and ergonomic grip intended. One of us WILL eventually discharge a firearm this way and be injured or worse. There is no way the grips we are being forced to use are as safe as the pistol grip. This is often a 8-9 lb rifle which was intended to be held with a firm grip for safety.

3. Further the grip modifications being required to make make it impossible for most of us to engage the most important safety element in the original design - THE SAFETY. By mandating the re-design of the pistol grip the CA DOJ WILL cause one of us to be unable to engage his safety at a key moment or unable to disengage it at a key moment - either being life-threatening.

So in the interests of public safety the CA DOJ is taking the most common firearm in the US and forcing us to modify it to a more dangerous firearm than before. I suggest that when these accidents begin to happen perhaps the state will be liable for damages.

I will head off an obvious rebuttal which is that we are not being forced to make these changes - we could choose to register. However doing so costs us all money in the form of registration fees and loss of the rifle upon our death as well as imposing loss of freedom with the rifle (destination requirements, loss of loan, loss of transfer etc). So I maintain that we are being told: Either turn these rifles into what we tell you (fixed mag or fin grip etc) or have them restricted and taken when you die. Clearly most people are being forced to go featureless and that will be clear in a year or two when the low reg number are in.

Any amateur (or pro) attorneys think this is an angle we could pursue once we get an unfortunate test case victim soon? Or feel free to tell me I am stupid, naive and don't understand the real world...but you will have to line up behind my wife.
I think thats why they have a no liability clause in the regs lol.
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  #1385  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Featureless does indeed require that a person use his rifle in an unsafe manner.
This aspect should be used in court as well, if it is not.

A.W.D.
No it doesn't. That's like saying left hand shooters are using some handguns in an unsafe manner. Not true at all.
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  #1386  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:16 PM
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Some of my friends that have 1989 RAW Colts, they use specialized uppers like 24 inch .223 match chamber bull barrel, 24 inch .20 Practical, etc. for predator hunting, one RAW lower to do many things, is this now illegal or only for BB RAW rifles?
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  #1387  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
No it doesn't. That's like saying left hand shooters are using some handguns in an unsafe manner. Not true at all.
If you listen to this guy long enough, he'll tell you Featureless cures cancer. He is Mr. Featureless. It's apparently the answer to all problems including world hunger.

Nothing about the new regs really changes the fact that featureless is a way of exiting the runaway freight train. You might not die in the crash but you will die of the broken leg out in the desert a week later.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1388  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
If you listen to this guy long enough, he'll tell you Featureless cures cancer. He is Mr. Featureless. It's apparently the answer to all problems including world hunger.



Nothing about the new regs really changes the fact that featureless is a way of exiting the runaway freight train. You might not die in the crash but you will die of the broken leg out in the desert a week later.


Sure it is a dude, not a gal or a girlyman jerking off behind the keyboard? I am going to register a few mine, as I can always go featureless later.
  #1389  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FelixEstrella View Post
We do?
It's dated, but probably still relevant:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...n-with-rifles/
  #1390  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
If you listen to this guy long enough, he'll tell you Featureless cures cancer. He is Mr. Featureless. It's apparently the answer to all problems including world hunger.

Nothing about the new regs really changes the fact that featureless is a way of exiting the runaway freight train. You might not die in the crash but you will die of the broken leg out in the desert a week later.
Like I said before and now the new regs confirm is the ability to use a regular magazine release with a featureless configuration. And a grip wrap or MMG doesn't cause the rifle to be used in an unsafe manner. Pure FUD.
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I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
  #1391  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Like I said before and now the new regs confirm is the ability to use a regular magazine release with a featureless configuration. And a grip wrap or MMG doesn't cause the rifle to be used in an unsafe manner. Pure FUD.
Explain how not being able to grip your weapon is not dangerous. Or did you grow an extra long thumb?

It's sub optimal at best and dangerous at worst. Stop trying to sell it as anything else, that's the FUD.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1392  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Explain how not being able to grip your weapon is not dangerous. Or did you grow an extra long thumb?

It's sub optimal at best and dangerous at worst. Stop trying to sell it as anything else, that's the FUD.
You obviously have never shot a featureless AR. I have many times and it doesn't make it unsafe to have a grip wrap or MMG style grip installed. A grip wrap changes the way you grip, but it doesn't prevent you from gripping the rifle. That's why training is important. If they're so dangerous, why are they still selling them now?
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
  #1393  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:34 PM
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Default Fabio

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Originally Posted by ProlificARProspect View Post
Fact: Fabio is not on our side
That fact is disputed:

https://www.nratv.com/series/stinchf...n-1-episode-98
  #1394  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:36 PM
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No it doesn't. That's like saying left hand shooters are using some handguns in an unsafe manner. Not true at all.
I think the point of my comment has escaped you, but go ahead and feel comfortable with your preference for compliance.

A.W.D.
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  #1395  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott5182 View Post
Must have high speed internet access.

- Must own a computer.

- Has knowledge and training to be able to use the internet.

- Has the knowledge and training to fully utilize said computer + internet.

- Must own or have access to a quality digital camera.

- Has the knowledge & ability to be able to take quality, clear digital photos photos.

- Has the knowledge and ability to create an account on a website and upload photos to said site.


So I understand that the higher courts see a Voter ID card requirement to vote to be too demanding of a Citizen to exercise their right to vote....

Now the state of Komifornia wants firearm enthusiast to do all of this to exercise their right to keep property that they already purchased legally with out becoming a felon?

UNREAL!!

Yea, it's been brought up before. The courts are as corrupt as the rest of the government.
I honestly don't see how anyone could be convicted of almost anything if the system was honest. If your part of or connected to the ruling elite you can get away with anything. including murder. If you just a regular sap, your life, liberty and property are gone at some .gov hacks whim.
Anyone think you would get the same sentence as the perv Weiner is going to get if you did the same thing.

Two tiered justice doesn't even begin to discribe it

Last edited by jwb28; 05-19-2017 at 4:42 PM..
  #1396  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
You obviously have never shot a featureless AR. I have many times and it doesn't make it unsafe to have a grip wrap or MMG style grip installed. A grip wrap changes the way you grip, but it doesn't prevent you from gripping the rifle. That's why training is important. If they're so dangerous, why are they still selling them now?
Please, there is practically nothing I have not shot (except my wife). And it's dangerous in many ways in specific conditions. I have slipped more than a few times. And remember bro, they are NOT ALL AR's. An AR with a Hera (which I just bought a few weeks ago and installed on a rifle) is miles ahead of some kind of cheapo AK wrap or worse, something made for a non-standard rifle like a bullpup. On a bullpup, a wrap or block is really really really unsafe because all the weight is towards the rear and at the point where you NEED to have a solid thumb grip on the weapon.

Train with more than an AR and you'll see the problem right away. Train with the AR long enough, especially on transition drills, and you will see the problem with AR's too.

It's just not true that it's safe. If a guy came to you without thumbs, would you want to run and gun next to him?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1397  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
I think the point of my comment has escaped you, but go ahead and feel comfortable with your preference for compliance.

A.W.D.
Your argument for fighting in court that featureless is unsafe won't fly. Explain using a Mini 14 as another example of being unsafe?
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
  #1398  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Your argument for fighting in court that featureless is unsafe won't fly. Explain using a Mini 14 as another example of being unsafe?
You're making a logical mistake. You can in fact wrap your thumb around a conventional stock. I can't believe you didn't realize this man, you got to think about these things for more than a few minutes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1399  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Please, there is practically nothing I have not shot (except my wife). And it's dangerous in many ways in specific conditions. I have slipped more than a few times. And remember bro, they are NOT ALL AR's. An AR with a Hera (which I just bought a few weeks ago and installed on a rifle) is miles ahead of some kind of cheapo AK wrap or worse, something made for a non-standard rifle like a bullpup. On a bullpup, a wrap or block is really really really unsafe because all the weight is towards the rear and at the point where you NEED to have a solid thumb grip on the weapon.

Train with more than an AR and you'll see the problem right away. Train with the AR long enough, especially on transition drills, and you will see the problem with AR's too.

It's just not true that it's safe. If a guy came to you without thumbs, would you want to run and gun next to him?


You will use anything to push your agenda to register won't you? LOL.
__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
  #1400  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:46 PM
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meno377 meno377 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
You're making a logical mistake. You can in fact wrap your thumb around a conventional stock. I can't believe you didn't realize this man, you got to think about these things for more than a few minutes.
LOL. That's why you train. Are you gonna tell someone who just purchased one of these below that it's completely unsafe while they are legal to purchase?

__________________
In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
It’s always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people don’t behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 05-19-2017 at 4:48 PM..
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