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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1321  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Or not being able to engage or disengage the safety with your right thumb, as the rifle was designed?
Featureless does indeed require that a person use his rifle in an unsafe manner.
This aspect should be used in court as well, if it is not.

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  #1322  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
There's no way in hell anyone who's moved out of Ca. Is filling out any paperwork for Ca. Sorry. ...
I'll be glad to send them pictures of my free state rifle, LOL.
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  #1323  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:49 PM
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if i install a magazine lock, and leave the adjustible stock. do i still have to register?

thank u
  #1324  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Featureless does indeed require that a person use his rifle in an unsafe manner.
This aspect should be used in court as well, if it is not.

A.W.D.
Some forms of featureless do, others (such as a Hammerhead, especially when combined with a short throw safety) don't.
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  #1325  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TOPDOGGULTD View Post
if i install a magazine lock, and leave the adjustible stock. do i still have to register?

thank u
You would have to leave the bullet button on to register. And an adjustable stock is a feature.

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  #1326  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Featureless does indeed require that a person use his rifle in an unsafe manner.
This aspect should be used in court as well, if it is not.
No one is requiring you to do anything. The state is banning certain kinds of firearms. If you choose to install an unsafe retrofit to avoid registering your "assault weapon," that's on you. No one is making you do it.

So far (as of 2017), the state is perfectly happy with Mini-14s, unconverted Saigas, M1s, Remington 700s, etc. They are safe to operate.
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  #1327  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:10 PM
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  #1328  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TOPDOGGULTD View Post
if i install a magazine lock, and leave the adjustible stock. do i still have to register?

thank u
You already do have a mag lock on it, otherwise you would have illegally mfrd an AW.
  #1329  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
But they're saying that you have to pin/weld the muzzle device to register.

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Quote it? I have to register it because it isn't pinned and welded. See the problem.

It was a legal semi-auto center fire rifle without prohibiting features on 12/31/2016. It is now, according to the new regulations, an SACF that does not have prohibiting features but is an AW due to the OAL<30" because the muzzle device is not pinned and welded.

I pose this question then, if I put the BB back on and take off the fin grip (also a legal configuration on 12/31/2016), and register it as an AW, where does it say I have to have to meet the OAL of 30". It is a BB rifle and they will register it on that aspect alone. Once an AW, there is no regulation that says it cannot drop below the 30" OAL (ie. I have to keep the muzzle device that is on it).

They have created themselves a web of laws an regulations that even they cannot see all of the holes in. I have to believe that them doubling down on the pictures and BBs may cost them the entire AW classification. In their attempt to clarify the intent of the regulations they simply contradict themselves and it should be their undoing.
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  #1330  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:14 PM
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Someone needs to invent a tube-fed AR-15 or AR-10.

I understand it's a little bit of a safety issue due to the bullet to primer issue in a mag tube, but it may be a decent solution.
  #1331  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by javalos View Post
Exactly, it twists the design into an unsafe operation, these laws and regulations puts gun owners that seek compliance with the law in danger and it makes the gun owner break rules and other laws.

A double feed at the gun range would be a nightmare with a rifle with the new type of bullet button that forces removing the upper and lower to reload. All gun range facilities have rules that you cannot leave with a rifle in a unsafe condition namely live rounds in the chamber area. You would also be breaking the law putting a loaded gun in the trunk of your car not to mention it puts you and others in danger while on the road. It places the owner in danger while he attempts to fix the condition in his home. I'm sure a gunsmith would not be happy about a rifle in such a condition being brought into his establishment. All this could of been remedied by simply dropping the magazine which is what most manuals wants you to do if you get a double feed.

Its amazing that California lawmakers puts Californian gun owners in such a position. This forces the person to makes two decisions to avoid such a scenario, register it with a BB or go featureless.

Great point, the DOJ doesn't seem to understand the reason for these "evil features". Everything on a base gun has a function. The pistol grip is to be able to hold the gun firmly and use the firearm safely.

The magazine release is designed to drop a mag when there's a malfunction. Without it, the firearm could be left in a jammed dangerous position.

*Edit:
They also seem to not understand that until every state follows the same rules as these new regulations, these only infringe the rights of innocent good people in CA. A criminal can smuggle guns across state lines, and video evidence has been released where criminals have robbed gun stores taking hundreds of firearms. Those stolen guns will most likely get sold and travel across the United States.

Last edited by Kalashnikov007; 05-19-2017 at 1:17 PM..
  #1332  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
No one is requiring you to do anything. The state is banning certain kinds of firearms. If you choose to install an unsafe retrofit to avoid registering your "assault weapon," that's on you. No one is making you do it.

So far (as of 2017), the state is perfectly happy with Mini-14s, unconverted Saigas, M1s, Remington 700s, etc. They are safe to operate.
They are requiring you to apply a state issued serial number if your up to now legal firearm didn't have one. So they are requiring modification to comply. Second they make no effort to describe how somone with a polymer or skeletonized lower would comply.

The point being when they pulled this crap in the past they didn't require any modification only registration as is. So more they are open to many more challenges then the past.
  #1333  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
Separating the upper from the lower or removing the bolt is a way around having to register. However, once you register you have yourself a RAW until it's unregistered.

We obviously don't see this the same way.
No, I think you're correct after I read the regs again
  #1334  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
They are requiring you to apply a state issued serial number if your up to now legal firearm didn't have one. So they are requiring modification to comply. Second they make no effort to describe how somone with a polymer or skeletonized lower would comply.

The point being when they pulled this crap in the past they didn't require any modification only registration as is. So more they are open to many more challenges then the past.
I am pretty sure the Wizard of Awd was not referring to serial numbers when he suggested the firearms were being made less safe.
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.
  #1335  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
From the cover letter: Removal of the bullet-button undermines law enforcement officials'. ability to identify the weapon.

WTF?

My guess is this wording is going to prevent you (in the near future) from using a differnet upper..
Uhmmmmm. I'm pretty sure the serial number helps them identify it...regardless of a bullet button or different upper or whatever. Cripes! But I'll bet you're right ug, they don't want you to be able to change uppers.

This is all so hideously ridiculous. There are going to be some INNOCENT victims that get caught up in the minutiae of regulation here and have their lives ruined for daring to practice their 2nd amendment in a manner acceptable to their overlords in Sacramento. They'll misstep just a bit and get snared. For being democrats, these legislators really have no heart.

In addition, I'm sure a lot of people will get fed up and leave the state. What did all of this accomplish? Nothing more than a bunch of law abiding people, that would have never gone on a shooting rampage, leave the state and take their taxes with them. This whole crusade against "assault weapons" is a net loss for these legislators, but I guess their hard-on to stick it to gun owners outweighs that.

It really is very mind boggling, but then again, look who we're dealing with.
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  #1336  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Technically this is not entirely true. To qualify it has to be a working semi-auto rifle prior to midnight Dec 31 2016. Even if just for one minute. Not sure how anyone would prove or disprove this, but that technically is a requirement at least on paper.

"Ray, if someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

We made sure all of our lowers that we hoped to maybe register were fully functional rifles in calendar year 2016. Just to be "technically" in compliance, apparently just for the sake of saying so, because there is no validation structure in place.
YEP!
  #1337  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by numpty View Post
Uhmmmmm. I'm pretty sure the serial number helps them identify it...regardless of a bullet button or different upper or whatever. Cripes! But I'll bet you're right ug, they don't want you to be able to change uppers.

This is all so hideously ridiculous. There are going to be some INNOCENT victims that get caught up in the minutiae of regulation here and have their lives ruined for daring to practice their 2nd amendment in a manner acceptable to their overlords in Sacramento. They'll misstep just a bit and get snared. For being democrats, these legislators really have no heart.

In addition, I'm sure a lot of people will get fed up and leave the state. What did all of this accomplish? Nothing more than a bunch of law abiding people, that would have never gone on a shooting rampage, leave the state and take their taxes with them. This whole crusade against "assault weapons" is a net loss for these legislators, but I guess their hard-on to stick it to gun owners outweighs that.

It really is very mind boggling, but then again, look who we're dealing with.
We should all leave this state. All you accomplish by staying here is supplying the state enough taxes to slow the inevitable implosion of the state.

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  #1338  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TOPDOGGULTD View Post
if i install a magazine lock, and leave the adjustible stock. do i still have to register?

thank u
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
You already do have a mag lock on it, otherwise you would have illegally mfrd an AW.
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Originally Posted by jrr View Post
The doj is hilarious. They don't want people to register lowers or half built guns, so they add this unnecessary verbiage about separated upper and lowers, missing firing pins, etc. And what does it accomplish? .5% fewer aw registrations? And in return we get a complete disavowal of the concept of constructive possession of an assault weapon. Nguyen should appeal his conviction.... an unfinished assault weapons is not even a centerfire rifle, much less an assault weapon.

And now we get to watch them defend the argument that a bullet button is dangerous and must be banned because it circumvents the prohibition of detachable magazines, but it's also less dangerous because it's slower so you have to keep it, but it also fits the plain statutory definition of not a fixed magazine so it is the same as a regular mag release after all. Oh, and then argue some sort of "ghost statute" that requires you to comply with a definition of aw that isn't on the books anymore. I don't envy their lawyers.....even with the 9th home field advantage.
I don't think they worry about it. Look at the Peruta circus. They just keep changing rules, ignoring rules, rehearing, whatever it takes until they have the ruling that they want.

I don't care if Trump makes man/beast marriage legal, as long as he can push the SCOTUS into our favor he was a success. That's the only thing that can reign in Sacramento. At least for a little while.
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  #1339  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
I am pretty sure the Wizard of Awd was not referring to serial numbers when he suggested the firearms were being made less safe.
Yeah, I'm sure too.

A.W.D.
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  #1340  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:47 PM
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both ar-15, ar-10
  #1341  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
I am pretty sure the Wizard of Awd was not referring to serial numbers when he suggested the firearms were being made less safe.
Safety is a subjective term in this context. While they claim they are making now safe and we can point out logically that fails it doesn't really matter. The court will just say the DOJ are allowed to decide what is safer and what isn't.
  #1342  
Old 05-19-2017, 1:59 PM
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Uhmmmmm. I'm pretty sure the serial number helps them identify it...regardless of a bullet button or different upper or whatever. Cripes! But I'll bet you're right ug, they don't want you to be able to change uppers.
If the upper is the serialized part, and the lower isn't...

The DoJ has completely lost the plot.
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  #1343  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
We should all leave this state. All you accomplish by staying here is supplying the state enough taxes to slow the inevitable implosion of the state.

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I'm beginning to think this is the solution for my family.
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  #1344  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:03 PM
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I'm beginning to think this is the solution for my family.
It's the final solution to the California problem. Take away the majority of the tax base and watch the state collapse.

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  #1345  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:05 PM
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If the upper is the serialized part, and the lower isn't...

The DoJ has completely lost the plot.
I didn't think about that. Does this mean that I'd have to have the lower engraved on my Sig 556?

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  #1346  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:07 PM
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I didn't think about that. Does this mean that I'd have to have the lower engraved on my Sig 556?

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Some don't even have uppers and lowers. What the hell is this garbage?
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  #1347  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:09 PM
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I didn't think about that. Does this mean that I'd have to have the lower engraved on my Sig 556?
Exactly. The DoJ is making underground regulation which says what "identifies" a firearm.

Not only are they saying whether or not the lower has a BB uniquely identifies it, they're saying this applies to firearms which are identified by UPPER.

Not that any of this logic means anything to the courts, of course.

See also: Peruta.

The system is an utter joke, and anyone here who defends it at this point deserves nothing but pure derision.
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  #1348  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:20 PM
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Well, everything I have is featureless.... Screw them.
  #1349  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:21 PM
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So if someone that legally owns a registered assault rifle prior to 2017 decided that they wanted to install a bullet button on their legal assault rifle for additional safety around kids , they couldn't do so legally cause then they would be creating another class of assault rifle?
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  #1350  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:26 PM
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So if someone that legally owns a registered assault rifle prior to 2017 decided that they wanted to install a bullet button on their legal assault rifle for additional safety around kids , they couldn't do so legally cause then they would be creating another class of assault rifle?
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Theoretically, that is correct. They are (by DOJ definition) two entirely different classes of assault weapons. Absolutely crazy. Also, counter productive if you ask me. If the point of this is to get as many weapons registered as possible, then the state should allow registration of everything. Better registered than "on the street" as it were. But since when does ANYTHING this stupid state does make ANY sense.
  #1351  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Theoretically, that is correct. They are (by DOJ definition) two entirely different classes of assault weapons. Absolutely crazy. Also, counter productive if you ask me. If the point of this is to get as many weapons registered as possible, then the state should allow registration of everything. Better registered than "on the street" as it were. But since when does ANYTHING this stupid state does make ANY sense.
And you have your answer in this post: they didn't want people to register. They know what it would have meant to follow the law as written and concocted a labyrinth of insane rules to make their anti-gun agenda work.

Registration, as it was intended, favors gun owners and gun rights. This is simply an attempt at taking any of that advantage away and suppressing people from registering.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  #1352  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:33 PM
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Registration with "Multiple" caliber uppers.
Will it still be possible for a person to
register with multiple caliber uppers??
Can't find it anywhere where it's says
it's allowed.

Tnx
  #1353  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Featureless does indeed require that a person use his rifle in an unsafe manner.
This aspect should be used in court as well, if it is not.

A.W.D.
I guess I must be weird for operating my safety with my off hand?
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Old 05-19-2017, 2:37 PM
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Im actually very concerned about the date of acquisition. No way in hell do I remember this from years ago.... :/
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  #1355  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:40 PM
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SimpleCountryActuary SimpleCountryActuary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsavaho View Post


Registration with "Multiple" caliber uppers.
Will it still be possible for a person to
register with multiple caliber uppers??
Can't find it anywhere where it's says
it's allowed.

Tnx
In a Constitutional Republic, if it's not prohibited, then it's allowed.

Which sadly doesn't answer your question because this State isn't that any more.
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  #1356  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:41 PM
Scott5182 Scott5182 is offline
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Must have high speed internet access.

- Must own a computer.

- Has knowledge and training to be able to use the internet.

- Has the knowledge and training to fully utilize said computer + internet.

- Must own or have access to a quality digital camera.

- Has the knowledge & ability to be able to take quality, clear digital photos photos.

- Has the knowledge and ability to create an account on a website and upload photos to said site.


So I understand that the higher courts see a Voter ID card requirement to vote to be too demanding of a Citizen to exercise their right to vote....

Now the state of Komifornia wants firearm enthusiast to do all of this to exercise their right to keep property that they already purchased legally with out becoming a felon?

UNREAL!!
  #1357  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:42 PM
Uncivil Engineer Uncivil Engineer is offline
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
And you have your answer in this post: they didn't want people to register. They know what it would have meant to follow the law as written and concocted a labyrinth of insane rules to make their anti-gun agenda work.

Registration, as it was intended, favors gun owners and gun rights. This is simply an attempt at taking any of that advantage away and suppressing people from registering.
Registration wasn't a help to gun owners it was an attempt to avoid having the laws overturned by the courts. It was a not to try and show it wasn't a gun ban. The regulations are making it fail at that but it wasn't for them to help anytime but themselves.
  #1358  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:44 PM
deebix deebix is offline
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To hell with everything about this. If any of you fools register your property under these BOLSHEVIK diktats, you all deserve to lose every one of your freedoms and property. Free men do not answer to tyrants.
  #1359  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Aces and 8s View Post
I guess I must be weird for operating my safety with my off hand?
Helping to legitimize the state's new ideas of a legal featureless AR-15 as "OK" doesn't exactly help our cause, but go ahead and use your off hand if that makes you feel better.

A.W.D.
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  #1360  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
Registration wasn't a help to gun owners it was an attempt to avoid having the laws overturned by the courts. It was a not to try and show it wasn't a gun ban. The regulations are making it fail at that but it wasn't for them to help anytime but themselves.
My take is that registration is something CA had to offer to save themselves from easy litigation to destroy the entire system. When they realized that adding millions of new guns to the list and thus manufacturing millions of AW (or as we call them standard rifles) the shoe dropped and they spent millions to come up with the most convulsed idiotic logic of all time: the BB makes the rifle an AW.

I have no doubt in my mind this will be challenged legally and practically. I have no doubt that they also knew this, so the goal now is to make it as hard as possible to register. They will probably succeed in that capacity, and not get the 1.5 million they expected.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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