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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 02-01-2018, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfire View Post
This law is in direct conflict with ATF rules and the previous California law. As worded, It seems to be a defacto registration to firearms made before 2014.( when registration wasn't necessary. Their need s to be an exemption to any firearm built before 01/01/2014. Otherwise they could interpret the law to apply to any firearm that isn't currently registered and in their system. This is just a money and power grab by the DOJ. Im t sure if anyone is currently challenging this, but they better get on it before it is set in stone.
There is an exemption for any FFL serialized firearms, i.e., store bought guns, already, regardless of when they were purchased.
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  #42  
Old 02-01-2018, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by thorium View Post
There is an exemption for any FFL serialized firearms, i.e., store bought guns, already, regardless of when they were purchased.
These are regulations for self built firearms so, of course commercially manufactured ones are "exempt" from these regs. But, these regs do not take into account self built firearms made between 1968 and 2018 where no "registration" is required per the penal code.
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  #43  
Old 02-01-2018, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
These are regulations for self built firearms so, of course commercially manufactured ones are "exempt" from these regs. But, these regs do not take into account self built firearms made between 1968 and 2018 where no "registration" is required per the penal code.
Speaking of Penal code, how can this proposed rule change, override it?

Penal Code Section 30900 (b) (1)
"Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before July 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5)."

"§ 5472. Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Weapons That Will Not Be Registered as Assault Weapons.
(a) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm unless it was lawfully possessed on or before December 31, 2016.
(b) The Department will not register a firearm that was required to be registered under prior assault weapon registration laws in effect before January 1, 2017. These weapons include, but are not limited to, firearms known as “named assault weapons” and are listed in Penal Code section 30510 and sections 5495 and 5499 of Chapter 40.
(c) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm is featureless, except for bullet-button shotguns as described in section 5470(d).
(d) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm has a fixed magazine that holds ten rounds or less.

(e) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon unless the firearm is fully assembled and fully functional.
(f) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm manufactured by a federally-licensed manufacturer if the firearm does not have a serial number applied pursuant to federal law.
(g) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a FMBUS if the firearm does not have a serial number assigned by the Department and applied by the owner or agent pursuant to section 5474.2."
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  #44  
Old 02-01-2018, 3:55 PM
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I've been going round and round with somebody at DOJ via the CFARS issue reporting system.

Long and short. They are interpreting the PC such that 29181 (c) only applies to NON-AWs. So, if you have what is today defined as an AW, they require you get a DOJ serial number before you can register it as an AW. That or make it featureless (or change to a new fixed mag).

They will NOT accept your AW registration on a home build with a home serial number, even if that number is already in the AFS. Period.

It does not matter what the PC says. It only matters that they have their interpretation and you have to play by their rules.
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  #45  
Old 02-01-2018, 3:59 PM
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OMG this is nuts...

I just got an email from Jason Davis. Heres what I sent/asked him:

"Are home builders required by law to register 80% builds regardless of deadline for serialization/ markings? Link below was recently posted on Calguns as a follow up to a post on the issue that builder in fact must register. It looks like the rules are being changed right from under us!

Where can gun owners go to get a definitive answer in laymans terms bc it's all over the place on CG?

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1517438166 "


This is his response:

"Firearms that fall within 5508 would not be subject to these requirements."


From the pdf above:

"Article 3. Self
-assembled Firearms Not Affected by this Chapter.
§ 5508. Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.
The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with
the Department:

(a) A self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm containing a serial number assigned to it
pursuant to Penal Code section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921)
of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) A firearm that was self-manufactured or self-assembled prior to December 16, 1968, as long as the firearm is not a handgun.
(c) A firearm that was entered into the centralized registry with the Department prior to July 1,
2018, pursuant to Penal Code section 11106. Such a firearm contains a serial number or other
mark of identification assigned by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm
and reported the serial number or mark of identification to the Department so that it is on file
with the Department.
(1) This serial number or mark of identification is typically one that was created by the
individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm; therefore, it is not a serial number
or mark of identification that was issued by the Department.
(2) This serial number or other mark of identification shall be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or permanently placed on the firearm in a conspicuous location.
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States
Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual’s firearm already has a
serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally
complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for
a Department-issued unique serial number.
(e) A firearm that is a curio, relic, or an antique firearm.
Note: Authority cited: Section 29182, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 11106, 23910, 29180,
29181 and 29182, Penal Code. "



18 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - FIREARMS
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  #46  
Old 02-01-2018, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
I've been going round and round with somebody at DOJ via the CFARS issue reporting system.

Long and short. They are interpreting the PC such that 29181 (c) only applies to NON-AWs. So, if you have what is today defined as an AW, they require you get a DOJ serial number before you can register it as an AW. That or make it featureless (or change to a new fixed mag).

They will NOT accept your AW registration on a home build with a home serial number, even if that number is already in the AFS. Period.

It does not matter what the PC says. It only matters that they have their interpretation and you have to play by their rules.
Ook but remember we're talking abt a proposed regulation change. So they're telling you what is fact as of today that you dont, if rule change comes in then we're screwed.
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  #47  
Old 02-01-2018, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
OMG this is nuts...

I just got an email from Jason Davis. Heres what I sent/asked him:

"Are home builders required by law to register 80% builds regardless of deadline for serialization/ markings? Link below was recently posted on Calguns as a follow up to a post on the issue that builder in fact must register. It looks like the rules are being changed right from under us!

Where can gun owners go to get a definitive answer in laymans terms bc it's all over the place on CG?

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1517438166 "


This is his response:

"Firearms that fall within 5508 would not be subject to these requirements."

Im digging but cant find code, 5508, hes referring to does anyone know?
Page 5 of the document in your link.

ETA: His response is fairly canned, considering the regs were just published, nobody has had the time to really go through them.

Quote:
§ 5508. Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.
The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with
the Department:
(a) A self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm containing a serial number assigned to it
pursuant to Penal Code section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921)
of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) A firearm that was self-manufactured or self-assembled prior to December 16, 1968, as
long as the firearm is not a handgun.
(c) A firearm that was entered into the centralized registry with the Department prior to July 1,
2018, pursuant to Penal Code section 11106. Such a firearm contains a serial number or other
mark of identification assigned by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm
and reported the serial number or mark of identification to the Department so that it is on file
with the Department.
(1) This serial number or mark of identification is typically one that was created by the
individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm; therefore, it is not a serial number
or mark of identification that was issued by the Department.
(2) This serial number or other mark of identification shall be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or permanently placed on the firearm in a conspicuous location.
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States
Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual’s firearm already has a
serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally
complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for
a Department-issued unique serial number.
(e) A firearm that is a curio, relic, or an antique firearm.
Note: Authority cited: Section 29182, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 11106, 23910, 29180,
29181 and 29182, Penal Code.
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  #48  
Old 02-01-2018, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
Speaking of Penal code, how can this proposed rule change, override it?

Penal Code Section 30900 (b) (1)
"Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before July 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5)."

"§ 5472. Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Weapons That Will Not Be Registered as Assault Weapons.
(a) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm unless it was lawfully possessed on or before December 31, 2016.
(b) The Department will not register a firearm that was required to be registered under prior assault weapon registration laws in effect before January 1, 2017. These weapons include, but are not limited to, firearms known as “named assault weapons” and are listed in Penal Code section 30510 and sections 5495 and 5499 of Chapter 40.
(c) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm is featureless, except for bullet-button shotguns as described in section 5470(d).
(d) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm has a fixed magazine that holds ten rounds or less.

(e) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon unless the firearm is fully assembled and fully functional.
(f) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm manufactured by a federally-licensed manufacturer if the firearm does not have a serial number applied pursuant to federal law.
(g) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a FMBUS if the firearm does not have a serial number assigned by the Department and applied by the owner or agent pursuant to section 5474.2."
Yup, they are completely ignoring the law by not registering AWs which are not currently in an AW configuration.
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  #49  
Old 02-01-2018, 7:24 PM
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I said this in my guide thread about 857 and it's coming true already. No, nothing is grandfathered in.

I am urging people to convert to featureless and volreg, it's really the best way unless your ready to go through the serialization process with DOJ. It's a non-starter for me because I marked my own info and I am not defacing it and not paying the money to get it re-serialized.

These people have no limit to their greed to persecute gun owners. Entering into a existing serialized registry and then going featureless is the only real way to avoid their draconian illegal rules.
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  #50  
Old 02-01-2018, 7:52 PM
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This is just getting beyond stupid and the velocity at which the stupidity is traveling is increasing at a very rapid rate. Not good.
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  #51  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:38 PM
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Coming up next, any long gun purchased prior to 2014, that supposedly isn't in a state registry....
What ya wanna bet?
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  #52  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:40 PM
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Register all the things.....just in time for Newscum
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  #53  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:44 PM
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Just a thought, if forced to register 80s, can they now be easily transferred?
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  #54  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
Just a thought, if forced to register 80s, can they now be easily transferred?
Not if you register as AW. If you go featureless and volreg, then yes- same as any other non-AW rifle. The rifle is not an AW and has been registered in a centralized registry thus meeting the exemption status.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #55  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Not if you register as AW. If you go featureless and volreg, then yes- same as any other non-AW rifle. The rifle is not an AW and has been registered in a centralized registry thus meeting the exemption status.
You sure about that?
Quote:
29180
(d) (1) The sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm manufactured or assembled pursuant to this section is prohibited.
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  #56  
Old 02-01-2018, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Not if you register as AW. If you go featureless and volreg, then yes- same as any other non-AW rifle. The rifle is not an AW and has been registered in a centralized registry thus meeting the exemption status.
That will be interesting, to say the least.
Can you imaging how many, say, serial #1 will be registered?
Yes, I realize there will be different manufacturer names, but what a fustercluck.
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  #57  
Old 02-01-2018, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
Just a thought, if forced to register 80s, can they now be easily transferred?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Not if you register as AW. If you go featureless and volreg, then yes- same as any other non-AW rifle. The rifle is not an AW and has been registered in a centralized registry thus meeting the exemption status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
You sure about that?
29180
Quote:
(d) (1) The sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm manufactured or assembled pursuant to this section is prohibited.
IF you volreg them BEFORE 7/1/2018, you can transfer...IF you wait to be forced to regester, you will be unable to transfer...

Quote:
§ 5508. Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.

(c) A firearm that was entered into the centralized registry with the Department prior to July 1,
2018, pursuant to Penal Code section 11106. Such a firearm contains a serial number or other
mark of identification assigned by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm
and reported the serial number or mark of identification to the Department so that it is on file
with the Department.
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  #58  
Old 02-01-2018, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
You sure about that?
I'm sure of nothing in California but what is the issue? The exemptions clearly state that if the rifle appears in a centralized registry (and it's not an AW) before July 1st 2018 then its exempt from Cooper. Of course the DOJ chose to go with the most Draconian regs possible, I assumed that and it looks like I was right. The new regs don't grandfather anything in.

Again, not "sure" of anything.
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #59  
Old 02-01-2018, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivraton View Post
29180

IF you volreg them BEFORE 7/1/2018, you can transfer...IF you wait to be forced to regester, you will be unable to transfer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I'm sure of nothing in California but what is the issue? The exemptions clearly state that if the rifle appears in a centralized registry (and it's not an AW) before July 1st 2018 then its exempt from Cooper. Of course the DOJ chose to go with the most Draconian regs possible, I assumed that and it looks like I was right. The new regs don't grandfather anything in.

Again, not "sure" of anything.
Ah yes, forgot about 29181, my mistake. Probably just gave them another idea
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Old 02-01-2018, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivraton View Post
29180


IF you volreg them BEFORE 7/1/2018, you can transfer...IF you wait to be forced to regester, you will be unable to transfer...
My understanding is that if its in a centralized registry and not an AW, then we can transfer it anytime. It's like any other non-aw rifle, it's a featureless rifle that appears in a centralized registry.

We can't transfer any AW since January 1st 2018 based on the new regs and definitions. Not now or post July 1st 2018.

If we take our home built AW and convert to featureless right now, then we have the ability to transfer them as non-aw until July 1st. Cooper than says, combined with the new regs, that they cannot be transferred after July 1st.

That's why I am making the argument that it's really a good deal to volreg NOW, it exempts you from these new regs and Cooper 857's rules.
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Old 02-01-2018, 9:47 PM
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So just to clarify. The regs for AB 857 are out now.

So if I build out a polymer 80 PF940/PF940C/PF940CS Glock lower and engrave it with ALL ATF specs and build it out as a single shot using the INLANDER ARMS, then VolReg it as a single shot using the CFARS.....Then the part about 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH listed in section 21980 of AB 857 as a requirement for polymer shouldn't apply because it's registered and it is exempt from the requirement of 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH because it's registered and exempt as explained in section 21981 (c)????

And theoretically speaking this is all done and complete way before July 1, 2018
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Thanks you guys
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Old 02-01-2018, 9:58 PM
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Has anyone thought about the photo and no modifications parts? Assuming an AR platform:

It seems that they want you to take photos of the FULL rifle. What if I manufacture my %80 lower, but haven't purchased the upper yet? Uppers can be expensive, and that may be why somebody built their own lower anyway. Don't they know that the lower is the firearm and the upper doesn't matter?

As for the no modifications, what if I have multiple uppers? What if I decide to change the stock? What if I don't like my flash suppressor and decide to go with a different muzzle brake?

Am I reading that wrong? How can they be that bold when there is nothing in the penal code for that? Oh I forgot this is CA...

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Old 02-01-2018, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Has anyone thought about the photo and no modifications parts? Assuming and AR platform:

It seems that they want you to take photos of the FULL rifle. What if I manufacture my %80 lower, but haven't purchased the upper yet? Don't they know that the lower is the firearm and the upper doesn't matter?

As for the no modifications, what if I have multiple uppers? What if I decide to change the stock? What if I don't like my flash suppressor and decide to go with a different muzzle brake?

Am I reading that wrong? How can they be that bold when there is nothing in the penal code for that? Oh I forgot this is CA...
They will only register fully assembled and working (fire-able) weapons as assault weapons. No one knows what the photo requirement is for, we have all gotten 10 different answers asking the DOJ on the phone. Some said you need to take pictures of all uppers you want to use with the lower, some said you don't. No one knows.

According to the law and regulations, there is NOTHING that says anywhere that you cannot change calibers, uppers, accessories, etc. NOTHING even remotely implied. The only theories about what is and is not allowed as far as uppers and accessories comes from DOJ phone information, which is about as valuable as a fart in the wind.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 02-01-2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SiggleWiggle View Post
So just to clarify. The regs for AB 857 are out now.

So if I build out a polymer 80 PF940/PF940C/PF940CS Glock lower and engrave it with ALL ATF specs and build it out as a single shot using the INLANDER ARMS, then VolReg it as a single shot using the CFARS.....Then the part about 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH listed in section 21980 of AB 857 as a requirement for polymer shouldn't apply because it's registered and it is exempt from the requirement of 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH because it's registered and exempt as explained in section 21981 (c)????

And theoretically speaking this is all done and complete way before July 1, 2018
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Thanks you guys
There are no rules for markings for volreg home builds that I am aware of. I chose to mark to some of the ATF specs, but not in the sense that it needs to be exactly that. Remember, the ATF regulations deal with manufacturers of firearms, not those building for their own use with no intention of resale.

Before Cooper 857 all you needed to do is follow the law and build a legal weapon. There was no CA law or regulation that said you had to mark it at all in any way. Most home builders essentially did mark out of courtesy to LEO and for self-identification purposes. It was all a choice depending on how you interpreted Federal ATF laws and guidelines.

I think it's a good idea to mark your home builds with a professional and unique serial number, that's what I did for years and years. I followed most of the ATF guidelines for manufacturers.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 02-01-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
Coming up next, any long gun purchased prior to 2014, that supposedly isn't in a state registry....
What ya wanna bet?
So, they are going to ignore all the legally owned and unregistered handguns in CA and just go after the long guns?
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:00 AM
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Looks as all 80% & Dros lowers that were built into featureless long guns will need to be registered. They went for permanent registration requirements on long guns a couple of years ago just to target a certain rifle configuration. The time is now & they're pounding the hell out of us. I believe the Dros were most often listed as lower receiver & not long gun. As far as the registration rules have gone they were not going to allow unassembled long guns to be registered, it held true when this BS was passed and I believe they already had their scheme in mind. I'm glad I bought all of mine as complete long guns. Now I need to transfer a few to family, they are complete long guns!

Last edited by Paul223; 02-02-2018 at 12:04 AM.. Reason: Edit
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Old 02-02-2018, 1:15 AM
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This is next step to confiscation, MARK MY WORDS. God forbid CA has its own version of Las Vegas attack or Pulse Nite Club every single weapon will be confiscated bc they'll have all your info, and pics(?) if I read it right

I WILL NOT COMPLY

These laws are violation of the Second as well as the Fourth Amendments
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Old 02-02-2018, 2:25 AM
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I have absolutely no idea why someone would register their weapon as an "aw" it's crazy as hell. You're absolutely right about absolute confiscation. I hear all this hype about lawsuits that will be filed and so on. I call B.S on all of that. Look at the laws that have been passed over the past several years, I see no laws being overturned, the restrictions just get worse.

I recall several years ago how Jerry Brown was going be our savior from the leftist loons. He happens to be one. I had laughed then and shook my head in disbelief how so many people can be so damn naive. Some members of this forum vote for the the tyrants who steal our Constitutional rights. It's going to get worse much worse.





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Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
This is next step to confiscation, MARK MY WORDS. God forbid CA has its own version of Las Vegas attack or Pulse Nite Club every single weapon will be confiscated bc they'll have all your info, and pics(?) if I read it right

I WILL NOT COMPLY

These laws are violation of the Second as well as the Fourth Amendments
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
There are no rules for markings for volreg home builds that I am aware of. I chose to mark to some of the ATF specs, but not in the sense that it needs to be exactly that. Remember, the ATF regulations deal with manufacturers of firearms, not those building for their own use with no intention of resale.

Before Cooper 857 all you needed to do is follow the law and build a legal weapon. There was no CA law or regulation that said you had to mark it at all in any way. Most home builders essentially did mark out of courtesy to LEO and for self-identification purposes. It was all a choice depending on how you interpreted Federal ATF laws and guidelines.

I think it's a good idea to mark your home builds with a professional and unique serial number, that's what I did for years and years. I followed most of the ATF guidelines for manufacturers.
Ok great yea only minimal requirements for AB 857. What about the whole metal requirement? If I VolReg now a PF940C polymer 80 Glock lower that is complete, do I still need to have the 3.7 ounces of metal in the frame?

Remember 21981 (c)

21980 shall not apply.....so the whole part about 3.7 metal as explained should go out the window and not be necessary? Or am I wrong?

Thanks
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Old 02-02-2018, 6:50 AM
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Im still trying to figure out how they plan to prove that most of these werent made 100% before 1968. As long as you have a variant which had been invented before 1968, and either you, your parents, or grand parents were in the US at that time, the only proof is going to be if you tell them you made it more recently.
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Old 02-02-2018, 7:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
So, they are going to ignore all the legally owned and unregistered handguns in CA and just go after the long guns?
Oh, I didn't forget that. Just trying to make a point.
Citizens building their own rifles without asking permission is just more offensive to these dbags. For the moment, anyway.
And purchased handguns have been registered for far longer than rifles.

Last edited by Greg B; 02-02-2018 at 7:39 AM..
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Old 02-02-2018, 9:40 AM
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Originally Posted by taktiks View Post
I believe some of you are looking in the wrong part of the regs. See below:



Basically, even if you applied your own serial number before 7/1/18, you still need to volreg the rifle. This has nothing to do with AW registration.
(c) A firearm that was entered into the centralized registry with the Department prior to July 1,
2018, pursuant to Penal Code section 11106. Such a firearm contains a serial number or other
mark of identification assigned by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm
and reported the serial number or mark of identification to the Department so that it is on file
with the Department.

100 % correct a home serialized 80 percent regardless of when you built it you have to volreg it so it is in the data base there is nothing here that says anything other than that it must be in the data base before 07/01/2018
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:18 AM
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There's no way in hell most people will know they need to retroactively register their homebuilds from years ago, or even want to register them for that matter.

All I'm gonna say is there better be a damn legal challenge to this coming soon. This is one of the most concerning issues to me because information is EVERYTHING these days. Once you are in their system YOU NO LONGER OWN YOUR GUNS you are simply leasing them from the state until they decide you can no longer have them.
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SiggleWiggle View Post
So just to clarify. The regs for AB 857 are out now.

So if I build out a polymer 80 PF940/PF940C/PF940CS Glock lower and engrave it with ALL ATF specs and build it out as a single shot using the INLANDER ARMS, then VolReg it as a single shot using the CFARS
I built single-shot, long barrel, long-frame and took pictures prior to completing my PF940C, but I am thinking "if I am required to register, just send pictures of the milled out frame with the engraved S/N" because that is the part that is "the gun" right?
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by relatively-anonymous View Post
I built single-shot, long barrel, long-frame and took pictures prior to completing my PF940C, but I am thinking "if I am required to register, just send pictures of the milled out frame with the engraved S/N" because that is the part that is "the gun" right?
That's what I thought but just you can't register the frame because it's not an exempt form.....it would be considered an unsafe handgun and wouldn't be able to clarify. Any one care to clarify?....especially the part of the metal requirement?
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SiggleWiggle View Post
That's what I thought but just you can't register the frame because it's not an exempt form.....it would be considered an unsafe handgun and wouldn't be able to clarify. Any one care to clarify?....especially the part of the metal requirement?
DOJ wants pictures in compliant single shot format, but I have heard of them registering it both single shot or semi auto depending on how the Unlicensed Subject submits it. It would appear DOJ takes no issue with conversion to semi auto after initially building it single shot (provided you can prove it was built single shot).

That said, DOJ is not the office that would prosecute you, it would be your local DA (who might have a different take on the matter)

METAL REQUIREMENT:

Quote:
(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:

(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
Therefore as long as it's built before July 1, 2018, you don't need the 3.7oz stainless embedded.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:20 AM
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It would appear DOJ takes no issue with conversion to semi auto after initially building it single shot (provided you can prove it was built single shot).
I'm no expert but wouldn't it be the prosecutor's burden to prove that you didn't build it single shot if that's what they want to prosecute you with?
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
They will only register fully assembled and working (fire-able) weapons as assault weapons. No one knows what the photo requirement is for, we have all gotten 10 different answers asking the DOJ on the phone. Some said you need to take pictures of all uppers you want to use with the lower, some said you don't. No one knows.

According to the law and regulations, there is NOTHING that says anywhere that you cannot change calibers, uppers, accessories, etc. NOTHING even remotely implied. The only theories about what is and is not allowed as far as uppers and accessories comes from DOJ phone information, which is about as valuable as a fart in the wind.
Im not talking about AWs here. Based on the new regs, in order to get your home built firearm (featureless or fixed mag) "into the system" with the serial number from DOJ, they require you to submit photos and have the it completed within 30 days. And also say that you cannot "modify" the firearm outside of that 30 days.

How many people that build 80's make just the lower, then buy the LPK, then later by the upper receiver, then later buy the barrel they want, etc spreading the $ outflow over some time.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:36 AM
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I'm no expert but wouldn't it be the prosecutor's burden to prove that you didn't build it single shot if that's what they want to prosecute you with?
That is true, but DOJ will likely not process the registration if you do not provide pictures of it built single shot. I believe people have tried to challenge this with DOJ (by saying "trust me I built it single shot") but I'm not aware of anyone being successful with that path.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmoot View Post
Im not talking about AWs here. Based on the new regs, in order to get your home built firearm (featureless or fixed mag) "into the system" with the serial number from DOJ, they require you to submit photos and have the it completed within 30 days. And also say that you cannot "modify" the firearm outside of that 30 days.

How many people that build 80's make just the lower, then buy the LPK, then later by the upper receiver, then later buy the barrel they want, etc spreading the $ outflow over some time.
Compete the gun or complete milling the lower?
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