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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums. |
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#1
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Why are some men like this.....?
GRRRR....
This is justa little snip it of some a**hat's comments on another forum. Why do some guys ruin it for the lady that is trying to learn buy just shoving a revolver at them? Really? I just get so angry! I don't think I'm anything special, just a regular lady. I don't know much, but I have guts and confidence and I think if you add that into the equation, ANY gal with some training and shoot. They are talking about a Kahr CW9.... this gun by no means is a beast in any way. Super smooth and easy to shoot. I think my 89 year old grandma could handle it. What's with guys like this?? "i think ur wife falls within the 90% of women who indeed have a very hard time racking kahrs. I think that was a real reason back when, kahr introuduced their lady PM9. It had a 16# recoil spring instead of factory 18#. evidently sales sucked or the reduction was still not enough to cintinue offering the gun. Not the best forum to be saying this but I have always felt kahrs are not for most women. If they can't go througth the hand racking, clearing a jam. unloading and loading a kahr then get them into something that they feel 100% comforatable with, and in most cases a wheelgun will fit that bill most all the time. and as ____(removed member name)___ stated a 25 is not a gun to put in a womans hands, whether she can rack it or not and sometimes again whether we will admit it or not some women just cannot handle a GUN... "
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The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
#2
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While his perspective is stuck in the 1970s, hes right about one thing: women cant handle guns at all.
JK. Kidding aside, not every gun fits every person. That applies to men just like it does to the women.For example, A Glock 22 doesnt fit my hand well and a G23 is impossible for me to shoot well. We all have guns which we just dont ergonomically mesh with. As far as the commenter goes, even us guys have to suffer fools on occasion.The RKBA applies to idiots as well as the enlightened.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#3
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No offense, but having worked as an instructor, I have run across MANY women that cannot rack the slide on guns with 18+ pound recoil springs. Some men as well, but its like a 25 to 1 ratio of women to men who have trouble. Its not a issue of misogyny, but the biological facts that most women have less upper body strength and smaller, weaker hands. Thats just nature. Proper training and technique can mediate this issue for some people. While the "a**hat's" comments may have been crude, I think your off base that if someone suggest a piece of equipment more ergonomically suited for a particular shooter is doing them a disservice. It's quite the opposite. Many a time I have been instructing a class with a husband and wife. Husband bought the wife whatever gun he liked, even though it did not fit the wifes physical needs and abilitys. Then I have to watch the whole day as she struggles with it, get frustrated, and learns very little in the class.
PS: Post video of your 89 year old grandma properly and with authority racking the slide of a Kahr with an 18# recoil spring with a fully loaded and seated mag and I will donate $100 to CGF. Alternately, I bet she could thumb cock and fire a revolver. |
#4
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Pay no attention to them you just go and do your thing, once you get the feel of it you will come up with your own way to charge your weapon against a strong recoil spring.
Some people are opinionated. This is where I should say something mean but funny, but I wont. |
#5
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Any stupid jerk who says that would get his ash can kicked back to kindergarten by the women shooters in USPSA, and that includes rifle and shotgun. Generally speaking you want the largest frame gun in a caliber that you can manage, but that doesn't mean that a Kahr CW9 won't work for you at all.
And you don't 'thumb cock' revolvers, you shoot them double action like you are supposed to. |
#6
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I have never handled a gun that I couldn't rack. And I have shot at dozens of different guns from long guns to pistols.
You've gotta be pretty frail to not be able to rack the guns mentioned. The only gun I didn't care for was the desert eagle. While I had no problems shooting it, I have small hands and it was more difficult than normal to rack it. Although I could still rack the darn thing. Some of my male shooting buddies had difficulty with it as well.
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#7
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It's misogynistic when you assume based on gender.
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#8
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Yeah, but let's be honest... these women all kinda look like men. It's like the East German swimming team all over. |
#9
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You're kidding right? Women can't rack the slide of a kahr? If you aren't kidding, you are full of it.
Even if difficult for them at first (which I seriously doubt it would be), a little practice will help. Unless she is the veritable 98lb weakling! I have taken quite a few ladies to the range, and non have had any problems racking the slide on any of my semi-automatics. Yes even a couplea noobs. Yes I had to show some of them how to do it, but I also had to show some of them the grip, stance, etc. just like some of my male friends. |
#10
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Wha..? I guess any woman who isn't 5' 0" and built like a Barbie doll looks like a man to you? |
#12
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Firearms are not one size fits all instruments. A gun which fits perfect for a pro shooter like Jessie Duff is probably completely unworkable for a big handed guy like me. Vice versa, she probably wouldn't enjoy shooting and handling my Beretta 92FS. By the same measure, just because I can make a 2" group at 40 paces with it doesn't mean you automatically can too. Your hands aren't the same size as mine. Every individual must find a weapon which works for their hand size and needs. Quote:
....because she wasn't involved in the purchasing process! Most guys go about arming their spouses totally *****-backwards. They buy a gun and logically think "Jesus, I'm away from home 90% of the day and the wife/girlfriend is by herself. What if some goblin kicks in the front door while me and my Kimber 1911 are away?" No one wants to come home from work to see their spouse injured or killed from criminal activity. No ethical man would stand by and permit such a thing to happen. So whats he do? He does everything short of marching his spouse at gunpoint to the nearest FFL and buys the first thing the dealer plops on the table-which is some stereotypical "girls gun". The problem with this approach is that personal defense cannot be imposed from outside. If a woman genuinely isn't interested in defending herself , there's not a thing her husband or boyfriend can do to change that. He can buy her a gun, pay for professional instruction, and the lady in question will shrug and say "whatever". She'll just think the entire enterprise is a waste of money-and she'd be right. The pistol will go into a drawer never to be used , and in the event of trouble she'll actually be a danger to herself armed with a gun she has no interest or prior experience in using. Either the girl picks out her own gun, or she shouldn't have one at all. I don't mean that from a gun control perspective, I mean that from the standpoint of her spouse trying to turn his lady into a pistolero against her will. Quote:
Please, lets leave obsolete thinking in the history books where it belongs. Quote:
Quit snorting gun oil. Not only are those comp shooters hotter then every chick you've known, but they'll clear a range of targets before you even blink. Goodness knows we have enough problems right now keeping The Man outta our gun safes. Lets not compound the issue by spreading bold faced lies.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. Last edited by retired; 07-07-2013 at 12:29 AM.. |
#13
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when i was first teaching a few female friends of mine to shoot, they had trouble racking the slide on my glock and 1911. it wasn't that they didn't have the strength to do it, but it seemed they were a bit intimidated by it and wanted to rack it with the "pinching" approach which is quite difficult at times.
i tried to instill the overhand grip where you rack the slide with your whole hand and once they got more comfortable with it they had no issues. i still hear guys at the range talking about how women don't, or can't, do this and that with guns and it annoys me. maybe they've just forgotten how new to guns they once were. |
#14
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WHAT?? Are you crazy? They are wearing ball caps and polo shirts! German swimming team? REALLY! Grrrr....why some people just jerks?
__________________
The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
#15
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The bottom line is, of course different folks for different strokes. I don't like my husband's XD all that much. I can shoot it, I can rack the slide and I can take it apart and clean it. Is it my favorite thing I've ever shot. Nope. BUT, he loves it. It is is favorite gun he owns. BECAUSE he picked it out. I only actually own 2 guns that are mine, not the husband's but I picked them both on my own. In fact, the Kahr CW9 I went and bought alone without one iota of input from any man. Instead of being kind and offering something of value, the jerk (originally posted about)basically made female shooters out to be weak,(physically and mentally).....not ok.
__________________
The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
#16
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My 5'2" wife can handle a semiauto. I have taught female cadets, and never had an issue with them regarding semiautos. The issue pistol was Beretta 92F series. I had a cadet who was less than 5' and she was fine with the Beretta. For that matter, they handled 12 Gauge shotguns shooting slugs and buck shots without much problem.
I guess you need to practice with it, and get used to the pistol. |
#17
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I didn't realize using the inherent physical differences between the sexes when discussing particular physical abilitys was misogynistic. I suppose the soldiers in the threads about females in combat roles is misogynistic? Or the statement that men are, in general, stronger and faster? Show me an Olympic event based on physical strength and speed that is bested by a female. People are different. The sexes, in general, are build different. Stop trying to fight that biological fact just for arguments or PC sake.
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#18
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I think we can safely label that premise as pure bunk. While there are natural biological differences which are relevant in discussing matters related to soldiering & Olympic fitness, those differences have no relevance to firearms handling.In fact the smaller build and precise fine motor skills of women favor them on the firing line over us macho men: the best shot ive seen at my indoor range was a girl. Im detested by every feminist in the country,but facts stand apart from personal opinion.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#19
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How many women do you think shoot USPSA? Few thousand? Out of of the 150 million adult women in this country, your sample size is too tiny to be of any significance. The OP's issue was with the quoted person generality of women. I agree that generalities are not always correct, but they are correct much of the time.
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Last edited by G-forceJunkie; 04-14-2013 at 5:44 PM.. |
#23
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I have instructed hundreds of students in the 44 years that I have been involved in competition, and I guarantee that I can take a newbie, willing to listen, to a 6" group at 7 yards on demand from the low ready under a shot timer in 20 minutes of training and 50 rounds. It's all the fundamentals, stance, grip, sight picture, and trigger control. |
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#25
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We're talking about the ability to rack a gun slide. Your argument is completely irrelevant for the topic of discussion. I'm an average sized female (ok 1 inch taller than average) but small build. I have been shooting since I was 5' and 12 years old . I've never met a gun I can't rack and I've shot at least dozens of different types of guns. I'll take the challenge happily any day.
__________________
WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL Last edited by retired; 07-07-2013 at 12:37 AM.. |
#26
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I'm done arguing this point, so anyone else can have the final word on this discussion. I agree that that assuming _ALL_ women can not work the slide of a pistol is wrong. I don't agree with the poster the OP quoted and his "90 of women cant rack kahrs." That is hogwash. I stand by the evidence that I have seen with my own two eyes: Some humans do not have the hand/arm/upper body strength to cycle all pistol slides. More of them tend to be female in my experience, which is logical considering the medical fact that human females , on average, tend to have less hand/arm/upper body strength than average males. Last edited by retired; 07-07-2013 at 12:37 AM.. |
#28
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And yes, apparently your experiences differ greatly from my own and apparently everyone else on this thread. Sure, women biologically are not as strong as men. But again, we're talking about racking a slide. There will be exceptions to every rule but not as a generality when it comes to this topic. Quote:
Every women I have ever known personally that has carried, prefer simiautomatics to revolvers for size reasons and capacity. But it's a personal preference. If it's because you state a general rule that a woman can't 'handle' racking the slide on a simi-auto, then yes. Because that's ridiculous. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Because I'm going to assume we're both done with this conversation.
__________________
WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#29
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To be fair some women just can't rack slides and lack the grip strength. My mom bought me a 1911 and she almost couldn't pickit up from thw gun store because she ccouldn't perform the safety demonstration buy racking the slide back. It wasn't until I told her to cock the hammer first and then push the fram forward and pull the slide back as hard as she could that she was able to do it. But I agree, I don't like guys that think women should only own revolvers but I don't know anyone that thinks that way.
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#30
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Acting like revolvers are some kind of lesser weapon, suitable only for a woman is laughable. While a .38 in a 3" barrel is something any woman can manipulate effectively, one should not consider revolvers "girl guns". It's a disservice to revolvers and their capabilities, and women offended at the notion of using one think too highly of themselves IMO.
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#31
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My lovely wife learned to shoot a revolver because it is what I shoot and carry concealed, nothing more sinister than that. She also learned to shoot several auto's. It is as simple as that.
A revolver is a simpler weapon to learn to shoot. Come to think of it, it is what I learned to shoot with also. You don't think my dad was being sexist do you. |
#33
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2. The women who reach a competitive level in shooting sports are not the normal female gun owner. That's like saying that since Jeremy Lin can dunk all Asian dudes should be able to dunk as well. |
#34
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I'd imagine you don't have one. Based on my unscientific observation of the shooters at my local range, the MALE gun owners are the ones who give me pause. You know, the yahoos who teach their girls to hold a Glock pistol with her thumbs behind the slide, and the range commandos who can't keep their hits on a B-27 target at 7 yards but say their gun is inaccurate. If Julie Golob isn't representative of the average female shooter, neither is Robbie Leatham for us men. One of the best shooters ive seen was a young girl with her Glock 17. She could work the slide just fine, thank you very much. Rest assured I'm a long way from a feminist. But I'll not stand aside while half truths and prejudice are stated as fact. If anyone, male or female, can't work a slide/trigger/safety/decocker/etc of a particular firearm, they should try something else. Saying women are fit only for revolvers isn't misogyny, its just plain false.
__________________
The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#35
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oh boy... I started something that's become a bit mean. All I was trying to get across was making generalities is a disservice. Revolvers have pros and cons, as do semi autos. I just wish each person was looked at as an individual, not "oh, she's a woman, duh, that's why there's an issue." I got that attitude a lot when I was first shopping around for guns. I was very lucky to have a great sales person who happened to be a younger guy show me how he taught he wife to rack a slide and he had time to help me fit different hand guns into my grip and watch me rack the slides and give me pointers on how they looked to fit in my hand. It was really helpful. He didn't look down on my because I was a weak little lady or assume I was only interested in a revolver because the ease of use. I appreciated that and I think if all guys would approach us ladies that way maybe we'd stand a chance of learning something valuable from you. I know my Dad has a lot of information that would be great for me to know, but he's so set in his ways that if anyone even thinks differently or questions his method or thought, he's offended and pulls the "you're a female in a man's world attitude"
__________________
The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
#36
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I have never struggled to rack a slide and my gun currently has an 18# spring. In fact, the 18# seems easy to rack.
Then again, I am bigger and uglier than an East German swimmer, so that probably explains my success with firearms. BK
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Meowr! |
#37
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I'd take a german swimmer's body any day. Some of us aren't models. Some of us are just your neighbor lady type. You know, the ones who drive the mini vans and wear khakis and run kids to tee ball and have regular old office jobs..... Boy, us average women?
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The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
#39
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My petite girlfriend handles all semi's without a problem. Took her a minute to get used to it, but after that she was fine. She's embarrassed many a weekend warrior.
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Gun Owner / NRA Member |
#40
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"i think ur wife falls within the 90% of women who indeed have a very hard time racking kahrs." This is this posters opinion, its what he thinks. I think he is dead wrong with that 90% number, but we do not know of his experiences with Kahrs and women. I think that was a real reason back when, kahr introuduced their lady PM9. It had a 16# recoil spring instead of factory 18#. evidently sales sucked or the reduction was still not enough to cintinue offering the gun. Wild speculation not important. Not the best forum to be saying this but I have always felt kahrs are not for most women. Again, his opinion on some women, not all women. If they can't go througth the hand racking, clearing a jam. unloading and loading a kahr then get them into something that they feel 100% comforatable with, Sound advice, can anyone disagree with this? and in most cases a wheelgun will fit that bill most all the time. A factual statement. A wheel gun is an option if a person cannot rack the slide of a semi auto. It's not the only option, but it is one of several. He never stated all women should have only wheelguns. and as ____(removed member name)___ stated a 25 is not a gun to put in a womans hands, whether she can rack it or not and sometimes again whether we will admit it or not some women just cannot handle a GUN... " More fluff not important to the topic on hand, other than the fact that some women cannot handle a gun, just like some men cannot handle a gun. Not everyone can or wants to shoot a gun reguardless of gender. KLD83: I agree with your feeling that treating someone differently based on generalities is wrong, but when it comes to making suggestion for a person of a physical nature (in this case a handguns that fits your physical size and strength) generalities are usually right. Women are generally smaller stature and weaker than men. You cannot deny this general fact. |
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