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| California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#41
11-10-2010, 8:37 AM
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#42
11-10-2010, 8:43 AM
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#43
11-10-2010, 8:55 AM
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Do you guys think that the refusal for a search would lead to an arrest? Or may they test the waters for a while then eventually let you go because they pulled you over for a ticket and nothing else.
I have a problem with this because.... If this is true, then drug dealers could store their drugs in a lock box and when cops pull them over for a "busted light" then they could avoid arrests. Don't let the drug dealers know about this law because no one would ever get arrested/convicted. I see a problem.
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#44
11-10-2010, 9:25 AM
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__________________
There are some who call me....Tim?
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#45
11-10-2010, 9:27 AM
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#46
11-10-2010, 9:56 AM
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As a previous poster said, I may want to carry my sandwich and a pudding cup in an old gun case, using it as my lunch box. I refuse to allow the officer to search the gun case, and get arrested for not allowing him to examine my locked lunchbox, when he forces it open (I will not unlock it) it will not look good for the officer when I sue him for violating my 4th amendment rights, when he finds my sandwich and pudding.
__________________
 If you haven't seen it with your own eyes, or heard it with your own ears, don't make it up with your small mind, or spread it with your big mouth.
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#47
11-10-2010, 10:02 AM
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Never. Ever. EVER. Consent.
There is nothing to be gained by consenting. Nothing. Ever. Quote:
__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#48
11-10-2010, 10:29 AM
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__________________
Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out. 
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#49
11-10-2010, 11:34 AM
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Specific incidents tied to specific individuals are 'fair game'. Attributing some characteristic to a large group is perilous. Examples: It would be fair to say "All Calgunners have some level of interest in firearms." It would NOT be fair to say "Interested in firearms? Must be inbred rednecks."
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.I've been saying that for years ... There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. 
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#50
11-10-2010, 1:08 PM
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People who willingly give up their rights by small gestures are doomed to lose them eventually, especially when it becomes "the way things are done". I think it's wrong that people are harassed or scrutinized more thoroughly when they are assertive of their rights. I hate that "you must be up to something" if you don't want a stranger digging through your car. No one should be "suspicious" because they weren't cooperative with an unwarranted/causeless search. People with "nothing to hide" should be able to hide their Nothing all they want.
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#51
11-10-2010, 1:30 PM
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In the big picture, consent does NOT improve your life. The cop's attitude is irrelevant to anything other than intangible feelings that have zero bearing on the legal system and how the legal system will treat you.
I will repeat: NEVER consent. EVER. It will NOT help you, will NOT bear anything positive and can only hurt you. If giving consent means the officers treats you like a nice guy (trust me, he's not treating you any different than any other dirtbag out there, right or wrong), and being treated like a nice guy is more important than any other consideration, then you are dumb. And that level of dumb should be punishable (but sadly, it is not). In case I haven't said it enough - Shut up. Do not consent. Invoke and maintain your rights. Period. The End. Fin. Quote:
__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#52
11-10-2010, 2:16 PM
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These civil rights situations/discussions would dry up in a big hurry if the courts did one thing: Any time LE is found guilty of violating someone's rights, the first thing they lose is their pensions. Let the victim be the recipient of that LE pension and you would instantly see a whole lotta love and caring about civil rights.
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__________________
"Send money. We have lawyers and guns." -- Gene Hoffman
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#53
11-10-2010, 2:18 PM
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"Son, you've got a better chance of getting pregnant."
__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#54
11-10-2010, 4:45 PM
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it's just tools.
as i get this,
never keep a gun in what looks like a gun case. never keep any case with in view from out side your car/truck. keep ALL guns in locked boxes out of view. keep your car/truck clean. never consent to any search. about right this is why i like my big locked TOOL BOX in the bed of my truck.  .
__________________
big gun's...i love big gun's 
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#55
11-10-2010, 4:58 PM
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my gun case has a rainbow peace sticker and says "i love bono". cops are none the wiser
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#56
11-10-2010, 5:05 PM
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Toolbox is the best idea I've heard. It kinda excels past the Dora the Explorer Lunchable pack. Will consider it. Thanks.
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#57
11-10-2010, 5:17 PM
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I asked my good friend who's an attorney. He has no expertise in firearms related law. His general thoughts are to open it even if you don't legally have to as it's likely the quickest resolution whether or not it is legally required. He thought that I may well be right in not needing to open it. However, he also pointed out that it may cost me $10 K in legal fees to proove I'm right. Mostly his point being, it's possible I could be written up for something which may not be charged or dismissed but it would be annoying to have to deal with and would cost me some time and energy. Based on his general point, I'd just open the case.
FWIW, in 1990 I was carrying firearms in the legal manner back then (unloaded in the car in plain view; there was no trunk in this vehicle) and was pulled over (LEO saw me swerving a bit in on a rainy windy night in my dad's old station wagon with poor handling) thinking I was DUI. He saw the guns and we talked for about 5 minutes and then let me on my way. I was about 22 at the time. He did ask me a bunch of questions outside of the vehicle and was calm about it. I answered them honestly (my friends & I were comming back from an indoor range). I was amazed at how uneventful it was. My uncle, who is an attorney, was once pulled over and firearms came up (I don't remember the details) and opened things up when he didn't need to and it went fine as well. Then, as now, I comply with the current laws on transporting firearms, and maybe even step it up a notch in terms of doing more than the law requires. I really don't worry if I'm pulled over and it comes up. I will just answer it and be done with it.
__________________
I think Thor's hammer was an 45-70 lever action loaded with Garrett cartridges. I find that 90% of the questions asked here have been answered 20 or more years ago by Jeff in hid Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip books. "Taking a rifle to a gunfight is the equivalent of taking a chainsaw to a knife fight." Lt. Col. Grossman in On Combat (Sec 2, Ch 1) Last edited by Sheepdog1968; 11-10-2010 at 5:23 PM..
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#58
11-10-2010, 5:26 PM
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Not sure I completely agree. You were likely pulled over for some other traffic violation. My guess is that consenting may lead to officer's discretion in letting you go with a warning for whatever reason you were pulled over. Not consenting, though legal likley mean you get a ticket for whatever you were pulled over for. Just a thought.
__________________
I think Thor's hammer was an 45-70 lever action loaded with Garrett cartridges. I find that 90% of the questions asked here have been answered 20 or more years ago by Jeff in hid Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip books. "Taking a rifle to a gunfight is the equivalent of taking a chainsaw to a knife fight." Lt. Col. Grossman in On Combat (Sec 2, Ch 1)
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#59
11-10-2010, 5:47 PM
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#60
11-10-2010, 5:51 PM
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Oh, and get one of these cards from Jason Davis.
http://www.calgunlawyers.com/Davis_%...way_cards.html
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#61
11-10-2010, 5:57 PM
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#62
11-10-2010, 6:12 PM
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__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#63
11-10-2010, 6:14 PM
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In the long run (which I said before) consenting gets you NOWHERE. Besides, if an officer pulls you over, 99 times out of 100 he's already made up his or her mind on whether to cite or warn before he/she makes it to your window. So, if you really feel like being dumb and surrendering your rights in order to not pay a ticket for a moving violation you did most likely commit, feel free. And then I'll say you're dumb. Why? Because surrendering a right is dumb.
__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#64
11-10-2010, 6:17 PM
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What's your buddy's State Bar Number? I want to look him up, call, see if that's what he really told you, and then tell him to his face that he is dumb.
What HORRIBLE advice. OMFG. Wow. They gave this guy a license to practice law? Wait, he's not an ADA, is he? About the only member of the bar I'd expect to offer up that advice would be a DA/ADA. Criminy. Quote:
__________________
More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.
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#65
11-10-2010, 6:32 PM
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__________________
NRA Certified Instructor. Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor. 2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.
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#66
11-10-2010, 6:42 PM
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__________________
 ...... you cant have no idea how little I care " Monte (Tom Selleck) - 'Monte Walsh' "It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger--and I won't." John Wayne as John Bernard (J. B.) Books in The Shootist
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#67
11-10-2010, 6:55 PM
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#68
11-10-2010, 7:18 PM
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__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.I've been saying that for years ... There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.
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#69
11-10-2010, 7:24 PM
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I was in a gun store in oxnard and asked about transporting my rifle. The owner was not sure and pulled out his pocket guide to california forearms laws and what we got from it was that long guns do not have to be locked or anything. You could have your rifles on your gun rack and ammo in your glove compartment with no issues. Now it has been about 6 months so I might be wrong. I actually think that we concluded that they could even be loaded, but I find that hard to believe in this state.
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#70
11-10-2010, 7:38 PM
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__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.I've been saying that for years ... There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.
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#71
11-10-2010, 8:05 PM
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The blade was over 2 inches, it was spring powered, it was in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. 653K- Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor
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#72
11-10-2010, 8:14 PM
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Maybe we should come up with a plain sight curtain system so that if the cop pulls you over, and tells you to get out, 1) all your doors are locked 2) you exit the moonroof 3) right before you exit, you pull the curtain drop, displaying this poster in all windows:
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#73
11-10-2010, 8:39 PM
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Although Gust is in the 9th circuit, I would really like to see more specific case law that takes on the power 12031(e) itself.
Just found an interesting case that referenced 12031. Again from the 9th, but this time from CA and not WA. United States v Brady (1987) Haven't had a chance to follow up on the references yet, but I'm sure they will give some more examples of the power of 12031. Quote:
__________________
You think you know, but you have no idea. The information posted here is not legal advice. If you seek legal advice hire an attorney who is familiar with all the facts of your case.
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#74
11-10-2010, 8:52 PM
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Request a free card here:
 Tear in case of emergency:  Follow the instructions on the card:  Give the piece you tore off to the law enforcement officer:  The LEO will not likely be happy if you chose this route, but preserving your rights is up to you. Also, document as much as you can about the stop, time, place, witnesses, stated reason for stop, etc.
__________________
Jason A. Davis DAVIS & ASSOCIATES 27201 Puerta Real, Suite 300 Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Tel: (949) 436-GUNS [4867] Fax: (949) 288-6894 Law Firm Website: www.CalGunLawyers.com Gun News: www.GunRightsApp.com -- Twitter: @CalGunLawyers -- Facebook: /CalGunlawyers -- Gun Rights iPhone App on iTunes 
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#75
11-10-2010, 9:05 PM
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__________________
In Glock We Trust. Quote:
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=737563
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#76
11-10-2010, 10:02 PM
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__________________
"You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws. That's insane!" -- Penn Jillette Quote:
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#77
11-10-2010, 10:17 PM
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__________________
In Glock We Trust. Quote:
Quote:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=737563
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#78
11-10-2010, 11:30 PM
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__________________
"But, he'll see the big Board !"---General Buck Turgidson
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#79
11-11-2010, 9:52 AM
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#80
11-11-2010, 11:12 AM
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if and only if
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Unless an LEO knows prior to opening it that there is a gun in it, it is not a "gun case." The burden of proof is on him/her. S/he has to be able to articulate legal cause for search or for compelling you to open anything. Unless there is a legally compelling reason to open it, I wouldn't open it. You are not a slave, not "little people."
__________________
"The Religion of Peace": Islam: What the West Needs to Know. ". . . all [historical] experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms [of governmental abuses and usurpations] to which they are accustomed." Decl. of Indep., July 4, 1776 NRA Benefactor/Life Member; Lifer: CRPA, GOA, 
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