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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-02-2018, 4:31 AM
Two Nuggets Two Nuggets is offline
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Default Washington state “CA Style AW” laws pass committee.

Reading the text of the bill is sure does sound reminiscent of CA style AW regulations.

Should the people of WA state be concerned?

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni...lls/5444-S.pdf

Last edited by Two Nuggets; 02-02-2018 at 4:57 AM..
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Old 02-02-2018, 4:45 AM
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Old 02-02-2018, 4:57 AM
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:05 AM
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Washington state is still pretty far off from where we're at with gun laws, but yeah I'd say they ought to be concerned...
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:24 AM
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liberalism disease spreads to another urban center.
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:27 AM
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To think I was looking at Washington for relocation “sigh”
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:39 AM
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Back in the late 80's when CA started the "gun control" bit in earnest, I stated to others that Californian's must stop the trend , else it will spread. Very few listened.

Yes, the good folks in Washington should be concerned, as ALL residents in ALL states.

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Old 02-02-2018, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Two Nuggets View Post
Reading the text of the bill is sure does sound reminiscent of CA style AW regulations.

Should the people of WA state be concerned?

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni...lls/5444-S.pdf
The text of the bill requires that CA style "assault weapons" by configuration be treated the same as handguns for sale or possession.

Concerned - sure. Of course any such weasling is worth concern. CA style AW regulations - I don't think so. Unless, as a practical matter, it's impossible to get a CCW in WA state.

Hopefully WA gunowners will behave differently than CA gunowners when it comes to voting for politicians who push this sort of thing.
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Old 02-02-2018, 4:45 PM
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Not even close to CA style gun controller.

CPL is shall issue in WA.

"Assault rifles" will be treated like pistols if this bill passes.

They're putting together a registry for when they try to ban assault weapons in the future.
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Old 02-02-2018, 5:27 PM
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The text of the bill requires that CA style "assault weapons" by configuration be treated the same as handguns for sale or possession.

Concerned - sure. Of course any such weasling is worth concern. CA style AW regulations - I don't think so. Unless, as a practical matter, it's impossible to get a CCW in WA state.

Hopefully WA gunowners will behave differently than CA gunowners when it comes to voting for politicians who push this sort of thing.
WA is one of the easier states to get a CCW, even for non residents. $48, complete the application that essentially is designed to identify prohibited persons and a set of finger prints. Takes 30 to 45 minutes. No test or firearm qualification.
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Old 02-02-2018, 6:33 PM
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Not even close to CA style gun controller.

CPL is shall issue in WA.

"Assault rifles" will be treated like pistols if this bill passes.

They're putting together a registry for when they try to ban assault weapons in the future.
It won't be long. Politically speaking, Seattle has turned into a miniature San Francisco.
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Old 02-02-2018, 6:37 PM
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The west coast is lost.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2018, 9:04 PM
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I was always surprised that the Pacific northwest was as gun friendly as it is.
Cant imagine its going to last much longer.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:54 PM
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Living in both places, I can say things are pretty different in WA. Shall issue CPL = cash and carry for handguns. Also, the current governor, who is liberal on some key issues (energy, climate change) presided over striking the SBR ban just a few years ago. You can’t manufacture an SBR but you can buy one if you follow fed guidelines. And if the WA state part of an AW is just as ‘hard’ as a pistol. That’s a pretty small barrier.

Although Seattle is quite liberal and state policy on environment, renewable energy, cannabis etc is in many ways more progressive than CA, the demographics and politics are different. Especially outside Seattle city limits. Lots of rural communities here, people on the islands with little to no Police coverage, mountain people, and Native Americans who are pro hunting and pro gun. If you bring a freezer full of hunted elk steaks to work for handing out, you will get more happy people than not and hear lots of hunting stories. I think it will be a long while, if ever, until things get like Cali. Plus there is this really strange and wild land called Oregon between CA and WA to provide a barrier. ... you can get a ccw there as easy as falling off a chair, but people I talked to don’t even bother. It’s illegal to have a concealed gun in public but your car, for instance, is not public and loaded open carry is legal. Actually I don’t know if it’s legal, but I was at a convenience store and two guys walked in pistols out in the hip. My instinct was to dive under the Doritos display, but I was the only one there sweating it. Same thing happened at Ace Hardware... and Idaho is also considered part of the PNW also (nuff said)


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Old 02-05-2018, 7:23 AM
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Bills like this come up every year for the past decade and usually pass out of committee but never make it to the governors desk. King county (Seattle) dominates. Democracy.
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  #16  
Old 02-05-2018, 2:57 PM
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Clickbait title. The bill that passed out of committee does not ban anything, except 18-20 year olds from purchasing an "assault weapon". All it does is legally define the term "assault weapon" and subject it to the same purchasing restrictions as handguns: no one under 21, additional background check performed by local law enforcement, report a record of sale.

This bill is not even as bad as California's DROS, let alone CA's AWB. The extra background check could cause a delay of up to 5 days, but it's free, no $25 tax, and it's waived if the buyer presents a valid Concealed Pistol License (CPL). And WA's CPL is pretty much the easiest to obtain of all state concealed carry licenses, even for non-residents.

This is far from a done deal as well. This exact same bill and modification happened last year: Democrats introduced a ridiculous blanket ban on "AWs" that had no chance of passing (it almost seemed designed to fail from the start with how outrageous it was). Then they greatly dumbed it down to what you see now (i.e. not a ban at all), to make themselves look much more reasonable. Still bad though, as it provides a legal precedent for the term "assault weapon" which opens a whole can of worms for future ban attempts. Last year it died in committee. This year it barely passed out of committee and is now still unlikely to pass.

Despite all the FUD spread by people who think WA = CA + rain, the fight for gun rights is alive and well here. Outright bans like CA loves have no chance (for now), and state Republicans (and some moderate Democrats) are much more alert to ambiguous language in bills. For instance, the bump-fire stock ban bill was changed from a vague "trigger modification device" to a narrowly defined "bump-fire stock" (butt stock that uses recoil to actuate the trigger). They also expanded the list of relationships exempt from the UBC passed in 2014. Gun rights even do have some outright victories, such as the legalization of SBRs and use of silencers (previously legal to own but not to use) that passed in the last few years.

Still it does bode ill for the long term. State liberal legislators here are much more patient and incremental in their approach, despite all the noise from the gun-hating AG and governor. Infringements are slow and subtle, but they do come over time. Gun-rights supporters need to be ever vigilant in fighting these attempts when they pop up every year.

Last edited by Cannikin; 02-05-2018 at 3:11 PM..
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Old 02-05-2018, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannikin View Post
Clickbait title. The bill that passed out of committee does not ban anything, except 18-20 year olds from purchasing an "assault weapon". All it does is legally define the term "assault weapon" and subject it to the same purchasing restrictions as handguns: no one under 21, additional background check performed by local law enforcement, report a record of sale.

This bill is not even as bad as California's DROS, let alone CA's AWB. The extra background check could cause a delay of up to 5 days, but it is waived if the buyer presents a valid Concealed Pistol License (CPL), and it's free, no $25 tax. And WA's CPL is pretty much the easiest to obtain of all state concealed carry licenses, even for non-residents.

This is far from a done deal as well. This exact same bill and modification happened last year: Democrats introduced a ridiculous blanket ban on "AWs" that had no chance of passing. Then they greatly dumb it down to what you see now, to make themselves look much more reasonable. Still bad though, as it provides a legal precendent for the term "assault weapon" which opens a whole can of worms for future ban attempts. Last year it died in committee. This year it barely passed out of committee and is now still unlikely to pass.

Despite all the FUD spread by people who think WA = CA + rain, the fight for gun rights is alive and well here. Outright bans like CA loves have no chance (for now), and state Republicans (and some moderate Democrats) are much more alert to ambiguous language in bills. For instance, the bump-fire stock ban was changed from a vague "trigger modification device" to a narrowly defined "bump-fire stock" (butt stock that uses recoil to actuate the trigger). They also expanded the list of relationships exempt from the UBC passed in 2014. Gun rights even do have some outright victories, such as the legalization of SBRs and use of silencers (previously legal to own but not to use) that passed in the last few years.

Still it does bode ill for the long term. State liberal legislators here are much more patient and incremental in their approach, despite all the noise from the gun-hating AG and governor. Infringements are slow and subtle, but they do come over time. Gun-rights supporters need to be ever vigilant in fighting these attempts when they pop up every year.
^^^^THIS^^^^

Excellent post here from a fellow expat.

Washington is quite different from California. The Seattle area is every bit as nusto as is San Francisco. But the remainder of the state is really quite reasonable. The problem is that the Seattle are is growing and that's a threat.
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2018, 9:36 PM
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WA is like CA in that the laws are decided and driven by a few metropolitan areas. WA is playing catch up to CA at a very rapid rate. Seattle area has been undergoing tremendous growth. A lot of it from CA. Portland OR is a good example. Reading the seattle times newspaper is like reading the sf chron.
The seattle supervisors do what that want. Recently they proposed, and passed I believe, a "law?" that imposed an income tax so they could redistribute the $$ to the needy. It was struck down as the WA state constitution states that there will not be any income taxes. They knew that but ignored their constitution.
WA WILL very soon become a twin of CA with OR to follow. D's control the governments of all 3 states. Area-wise, CA, OR and WA have a lot of red. The I5 corridor had lots of Trump signs and bumper stickers in 2016 but it is populous and solidly blue. Sorry
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Old 02-05-2018, 9:46 PM
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Despite all the FUD spread by people who think WA = CA + rain, the fight for gun rights is alive and well here.
For now, until CA folks fed up with the state of california move to WA. then it'll be death by a thousand papercuts just like in california.
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Old 02-06-2018, 8:16 PM
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Aaaaand... this bill is dead. Died in the Ways and Means committee without ever coming up for vote. "Assault weapon" remains a legally undefined term in Washington. No AWB, no magazine restrictions, no registration, no "safe storage", no permission required to concealed carry in someone's residence. All those bills are dead this year's legislative session.

Another year, another round of hysterics declaring the fall of WA, transformation into a CA clone, "abandon all hope ye who enter this state", etc. Good thing gun-rights activists and conservative/moderate legislators here don't listen to those soothsayers, and continue to fight hard whenever these things pop up. We need people to stay alert for when they inevitably bring this back up next year, or try to bring it in by initiative.

The only notable anti-gun bills left alive in this legislative session are the bump-fire stock ban (which has been modified to be very narrowly defined to only "bump-fire stocks" not "trigger modification devices"), and a backdoor attempt to introduce a de facto waiting period (disguised as a totally pointless "voluntary waiver of gun rights"). The former will probably pass easily, but it's a minor loss with how narrowly it is defined. Hopefully people point out the potential for the abuse of the latter in its upcoming public hearing.

Last edited by Cannikin; 02-06-2018 at 8:48 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:01 PM
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Just move out of CA they said.

Other states are better they said.

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Old 02-13-2018, 12:41 PM
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Just move out of CA they said.

Other states are better they said.

I have a relative that was born/raised here in CA. and now lives in Virginia.

We talk often about the loss/curbing of Constitutional Rights and he sees the creeping of CA./NY "think" heading there and be in full swing within 15 or less years.

I never thought my home state of Texas would go the way it's headed.

No place is safe in the long term, I suppose.

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Old 02-13-2018, 2:26 PM
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I have a relative that was born/raised here in CA. and now lives in Virginia.

We talk often about the loss/curbing of Constitutional Rights and he sees the creeping of CA./NY "think" heading there and be in full swing within 15 or less years.

I never thought my home state of Texas would go the way it's headed.

No place is safe in the long term, I suppose.

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Exactly my point.

People - including many here - crow about leaving CA for "Free states" and so on, yet look what absolutely, objectively happens; the marxism literally spreads like the cancer it is.

Anyone - especially those who do NOT live in CA - who claims to actually oppose gun control should donate all they can to CRPA and other CA-specific organizations to nip it in the bud before it starts here & then spreads.
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Old 02-13-2018, 4:19 PM
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Back in the late 80's when CA started the "gun control" bit in earnest, I stated to others that Californian's must stop the trend , else it will spread. Very few listened.

Yes, the good folks in Washington should be concerned, as ALL residents in ALL states.

Respectfully
Kyle
yep in 89 with AWCA it really started in earnest. Since 2000 it has gone beyond stupid here.

Those in Washington should heed what happened here because they think it won't. Well it was thought that way back in 89 and look where we are today a breath away from losing it all.

Don't think so? Newsom is absolutely nuts when it comes to gun control and will rubber stamp any law the legislature passes.
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Old 02-13-2018, 5:04 PM
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Aaaaand... this bill is dead. Died in the Ways and Means committee without ever coming up for vote. "Assault weapon" remains a legally undefined term in Washington. No AWB, no magazine restrictions, no registration, no "safe storage", no permission required to concealed carry in someone's residence. All those bills are dead this year's legislative session.

Another year, another round of hysterics declaring the fall of WA, transformation into a CA clone, "abandon all hope ye who enter this state", etc. Good thing gun-rights activists and conservative/moderate legislators here don't listen to those soothsayers, and continue to fight hard whenever these things pop up. We need people to stay alert for when they inevitably bring this back up next year, or try to bring it in by initiative.

The only notable anti-gun bills left alive in this legislative session are the bump-fire stock ban (which has been modified to be very narrowly defined to only "bump-fire stocks" not "trigger modification devices"), and a backdoor attempt to introduce a de facto waiting period (disguised as a totally pointless "voluntary waiver of gun rights"). The former will probably pass easily, but it's a minor loss with how narrowly it is defined. Hopefully people point out the potential for the abuse of the latter in its upcoming public hearing.
Good to hear, thanks for the update.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:26 PM
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Here's an update for anyone who's interested in how the fight is going in a real battleground state for gun rights:

Even though the previous AWB attempt (SB5444), the one referenced in the OP of this thread, died in committee, after the Parkland shooting the Democrats tried one last ditch attempt to keep some of its provisions. They introduced a rider to a school safety bill that would lump all semi-auto rifles in the same category as handguns: no sales under 21, extra state background check that can take up to 10 days, background check waived if the buyer has a valid WA CPL. No mention of magazine limits.

I find it interesting that the Democrats eliminated all language of "assault weapon" or "features" and just went with straight "semiautomatic rifles". Any bill with the term "assault weapon" has been a non-starter in WA's legislature for many years now. Either this was some lousy attempt to slip under the radar ("maybe the gun-rights people won't notice if we don't mention 'assault weapons'?"), or they're finally getting it in their heads that all this talk of "features" is nonsense, so they're just making their true intent (restriction of all semi-autos) unambiguous.

Anyway, this last ditch attempt also died from missed deadlines. Even if it didn't, it was on very shakey legal ground anyway, as the WA constitution clearly forbids "riders" (all bills must cover only a single subject).

The bump-fire stock ban has now been signed into law. This was amended from its original "trigger modification devices" to a very narrowly defined "bump-fire stock", so it affects very little. Aftermarket triggers are not affected. Binary triggers were already illegal from the start due to the most common interpretation of WA's machine gun ban. Starting July 1, 2018 sale and manufacture of bump-fire stocks is banned. Starting July 1, 2019 posession is illegal. The bill includes provisions for a buyback program for these stocks at $150 each, but provides no source of funding, so this is probably an empty promise.

All in all, not really anything substantial regarding guns passed the legislature in the 2018 session, even after the Parkland shooting. Still no resemblance to CA gun laws except the UBC (which is still nowhere near as bad as DROS). Now we just have to watch and be alert for attempts to abuse the initiative system, i.e. being brute-forced through by King County (Seattle), which is how they got the UBC in 2014. There's even an initiative going around now trying to dramatically reduce the number of signatures needed to get an initiative on the ballot.

Last edited by Cannikin; 03-09-2018 at 11:50 PM..
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:46 PM
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^^^^THIS^^^^

Excellent post here from a fellow expat.

Washington is quite different from California. The Seattle area is every bit as nusto as is San Francisco. But the remainder of the state is really quite reasonable. The problem is that the Seattle are is growing and that's a threat.
We're moving to Vancouver this summer.I'm always concerned about gun laws but this doesn't say "Ban" anywhere that I could find. Seattle is SF light, but the state's overall ratio of libtard to honest, decent human being is nowhere near as skewed as it is in California. It has (I'm hoping) a long way to go to catch up with the PRK.
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:46 AM
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We're moving to Vancouver this summer.I'm always concerned about gun laws but this doesn't say "Ban" anywhere that I could find. Seattle is SF light, but the state's overall ratio of libtard to honest, decent human being is nowhere near as skewed as it is in California. It has (I'm hoping) a long way to go to catch up with the PRK.
Hey welcome to Washington! We could definitely use some more gun-rights supporters up here to shore up against the tide of liberals in Seattle. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to learn that Clark County (Vancouver) and the Washington 3rd Congressional District (all of SW Washington) as a whole is actually considered a swing area despite being right across the river from Portland. The 3rd District went Republican in the 2012 and 2016 presidential elections, and the House Representative is Republican. It takes very little to swing it red, and it kind of puts a big symbolic hole in the "I-5 Corridor of Blue".

The bill mentioned in the OP is dead, as is the last ditch attempt to revive it. As of the end of this year's legislative session, nothing regarding guns is banned in WA except bump-fire stocks, machine guns (which includes binary triggers), short-barreled shotguns, and explosive destructive devices.

You can have all the "evil features" you want, all the "unsafe" handguns you can afford, sky-high capacity magazines, and any other NFA items (SBRs, silencers, large bore DDs, AoWs) besides those I mentioned above.

Be sure to get your WA CPL (concealed pistol license) as soon as you get your WA DL. It's super easy, just need to bring your government issue ID and $50, they'll do the fingerprinting there. It took me about 30 minutes in and out the door at the Clark County Sheriff's office, no appointment needed (though they can take up to a month to mail it to you). It will save you a lot of hassle when it comes to buying handguns here (and maybe semi-auto rifles eventually if the liberals get their way). Just be aware that it refers specifically to handguns. For instance, having a loaded long gun in a vehicle is not permitted even with a CPL.

I also recommend looking into getting an Oregon CHL if you think you'll be crossing the river fairly often. It's a bit more involved, as it requires proof of training, character references, and most OR sheriffs require appointments (and it's at their discretion whether to issue out-of-state). Though the Multnomah County (Portland) Sheriff is pretty slow at issuing apointments, they are pretty much shall-issue to WA residents.

Last edited by Cannikin; 03-10-2018 at 1:23 AM..
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2018, 6:38 AM
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I would suggest joining northwestfirearms.com to keep up with the goings on in WA. Much like Calguns, but more discussions about NFA, Carry, etc.
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