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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:28 PM
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Default AB 857 & DOJ Regulations Webinar - June 28 @ 12PM

NRA AND CRPA “GHOST GUN” WEBINAR NOW AVAILABLE ON CRPA WEBSITE


On Thursday, June 28, NRA and CRPA hosted a live webinar regarding Assembly Bill No. 857 (“AB 857”—more commonly known as the “Ghost Gun” bill) and DOJ’s recently adopted regulations regarding AB 857. If you were unable to attend in person, the webinar was recorded and is now available online at CRPA’s website.

CLICK HERE to watch NRA and CRPA’s “Ghost Gun” Webinar

NRA and CRPA have also produced several other webinars regarding California gun laws, all of which are available on CRPA’s website. To keep informed about future webinars and other important Second Amendment issues, make sure to subscribe to NRA and CRPA email alerts. And be sure to visit the NRA-ILA California dedicated webpage at www.StandAndFightCalifornia.com and the CRPA website at www.CRPA.org.
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Last edited by MCubeiro; 06-29-2018 at 9:18 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:48 PM
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If you're taking suggestions for issues to address, a number of people have submitted Firearm Ownership Reports of self-built firearms with the intention that they be "entered into the centralized registry" and thereby be exempt from the provisions of PC 26180. DOJ has failed to send approval letters (or otherwise respond) to many of those people. To the extent you know anything about this, what happens to people who've submitted those Firearm Ownership Reports but have not received a response accepting the firearm into the centralized database as of 7/1/18? My reading of the text strictly is that they would have to serialize using a DOJ-provided number no later than the end of the year. Thank you.
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Old 06-21-2018, 1:01 PM
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DOJ is taking 3-6 months to turn around registrations these days, so there will be lots of folks in this position through no fault of their own. DOJ is simply too far behind for an owner to predict when they might send a confirm letter.

For those who submitted ownership reports of self-built arms numbers before the deadline, I submit that if the DOJ cashed the check or took the CFARS payment before 7/1/18 then we can assume these arms are in the centralized db and compliant with 857.
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Old 06-21-2018, 8:26 PM
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Old 06-21-2018, 8:36 PM
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Really encourage people to take advantage of this webinar. Like the past webinars, they are the best information available. There are many ins and outs for the AB 857 laws and their newly accepted regulations. Some things people think they know are no longer valid or are based on assumptions.

Some of the very interesting issues that will be hashed out hopefully in the webinar:

1) After July 1st, if we do ANY work to a unfinished receiver beyond the point it becomes a firearm (80% concept) we must first apply for a serial number via form 1008 or from a new CFARS interface (there is some rumors that they will make this available). The application for the serial number seems to be the legal point we can then finish the firearm, but should we wait until it is approved and we have the serial number in hand?

2) What do people do if they have home builds that were serialized in the past but that serial does not appear in any centralized registry? Is it "grandfathered in".

3) If we do have home builds completed in the past that were not volreg'd, do we need to immediately apply for a serial and have it engraved? Can we wait until Jan 1st 2019?
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Old 06-25-2018, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Really encourage people to take advantage of this webinar. Like the past webinars, they are the best information available. There are many ins and outs for the AB 857 laws and their newly accepted regulations. Some things people think they know are no longer valid or are based on assumptions.

Some of the very interesting issues that will be hashed out hopefully in the webinar:

1) After July 1st, if we do ANY work to a unfinished receiver beyond the point it becomes a firearm (80% concept) we must first apply for a serial number via form 1008 or from a new CFARS interface (there is some rumors that they will make this available). The application for the serial number seems to be the legal point we can then finish the firearm, but should we wait until it is approved and we have the serial number in hand?

2) What do people do if they have home builds that were serialized in the past but that serial does not appear in any centralized registry? Is it "grandfathered in".

3) If we do have home builds completed in the past that were not volreg'd, do we need to immediately apply for a serial and have it engraved? Can we wait until Jan 1st 2019?

I have the exact same questions
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Old 06-28-2018, 2:59 PM
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Just realized this went down earlier today. What's the verdict?
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:05 PM
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Just realized this went down earlier today. What's the verdict?
I couldn't make it but others did, there is a new thread going on it. Apparently they seemed to convey the idea that 80% builds were not being approved for volreg over the last couple months? Some kind of new policy?

Hopefully the webinar will go up soon so we can all listen.
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:12 PM
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Apparently they seemed to convey the idea that 80% builds were not being approved for volreg over the last couple months? Some kind of new policy?
My understanding is that they said that DOJ just wasn't approving it because they are backlogged and if its not approved by July 1, you must serialize with a DOJ number (which is what the statute and regs say, FWIW). I didn't get the sense they were relying on any DOJ guidance but sorta just what they've heard from people.

But my office was having internet issues so some of the audio came through garbled.
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post

1) After July 1st, if we do ANY work to a unfinished receiver beyond the point it becomes a firearm (80% concept) we must first apply for a serial number via form 1008 or from a new CFARS interface (there is some rumors that they will make this available). The application for the serial number seems to be the legal point we can then finish the firearm, but should we wait until it is approved and we have the serial number in hand?
There will be a new interface, supposed to go live July 1.

You must apply and be approved for a DOJ serial number before doing any work on an 80% that converts it into a firearm.

This is expressly addressed in the regs:

Quote:
(b) If the applicant's request for a unique serial number is approved, the applicant shall do the following:
(2) An applicant intending to manufacture or assemble a firearm on or after July 1, 2018, shall engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm the unique serial number issued by the Department within 30 calendar days of receiving the unique serial number from the Department. The applicant's date of receipt of the unique serial number shall be the date on the email containing the electronic notice that tells the applicant to log into the applicant's CFARS account to view the electronic correspondence sent by the Department.
(A) The applicant shall only manufacture or assemble the firearm after the Department determines that the applicant is eligible to possess a firearm and issues the applicant a unique serial number.
(B) Within 10 calendar days of manufacturing or assembling the firearm, the applicant shall engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm the unique serial number for the self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm. Hence, at the latest, the applicant shall finish manufacturing or assembling the firearm within 20 calendar days from the date the Department issued the applicant a unique serial number so that the applicant can complete the entire engraving process within the 30-day period prescribed by the Department.
(C) For firearms built on or after July 1, 2018, an applicant only has access to the Department-issued unique serial number for 30 days from the date of its issuance. If the applicant does not manufacture or assemble and engrave the firearm with its unique serial number within the 30 days provided by the Department, the unique serial number will become invalid and the applicant must reapply for a new unique serial number.
(D) If the applicant fails to upload the proper digital images of the firearm or does not properly apply the unique serial number to the firearm before the 30-day period expires, the applicant will have until the end of the thirtieth day to provide the correct information to the Department.
11 ccr 5518
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:20 PM
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2) What do people do if they have home builds that were serialized in the past but that serial does not appear in any centralized registry? Is it "grandfathered in".
No, they're not. Serializing doesn't do anything unless they are entered into the Automated Firearms System with the serial number attached to the entry.
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:24 PM
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So what does this mean for us that have paid, been waiting, and the system says "in progress" for several months?
Are they backlogged or are we hosed???
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:25 PM
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3) If we do have home builds completed in the past that were not volreg'd, do we need to immediately apply for a serial and have it engraved? Can we wait until Jan 1st 2019?

You need to follow the procedures below. You must have the engraving done by Jan 1, 2019, or you are in violation of AB-857 and committing a misdemeanor per each unregistered firearm. Wouldn't wait until December.

Quote:
(b) If the applicant's request for a unique serial number is approved, the applicant shall do the following:
(1) The applicant owning a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm prior to July 1, 2018 shall engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm the unique serial number issued by the Department within 10 calendar days of receiving the unique serial number from the Department. The applicant's date of receipt of the unique serial number shall be the date on the email containing the electronic notice that tells the applicant to log into the applicant's CFARS account to view the electronic correspondence sent by the Department.
(A) To show that the applicant has complied with the 10-day deadline, the applicant shall upload digital images pursuant to section 5521 of these regulations.
(B) If the applicant fails to engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place the unique serial number in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm and upload the required digital images before the end of the tenth day, the unique serial number will become invalid. At that point, the applicant will have to reapply to the Department and request another unique serial number. The applicant shall complete the reapplication process by January 1, 2019, or the firearm will fail to comply with the law.
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:26 PM
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So what does this mean for us that have paid, been waiting, and the system says "in progress" for several months?
Are they backlogged or are we hosed???
Both, according to M&A.
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Old 06-28-2018, 3:31 PM
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Answers to questions was exactly what I was thinking, no grandfathering, no quarter given.

But this concept that they simply stopped, at some random time, granting volreg for 80%'s in the last couple months is deeply troubling. Some of us have "in progress" transactions for months. We have reports of some people getting approval in letters recently so this is really confusing.

A backlog is one thing but refusing to accept is completely another. Also, how would it make any sense that the application can't be processed after July 1st? If we got it in before then, they should at least give us an answer.

Up until January 2018 everyone was getting approval letters.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 06-28-2018, 3:43 PM
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My guess is that over the last three months, AW registrations increased drastically, and they made a decision to focus on getting all those processed before volregs.

Quote:
how would it make any sense that the application can't be processed after July 1st? If we got it in before then, they should at least give us an answer.
Statute says that it must be entered into centralized registry (AFS) before July 1, or it must have a unique SN engraved. Period. It doesn't say "if you submitted it before." Frankly, as dumb as that is, there's no legal problem with them making that rule.

However, you run into the problem that, if you strictly read the other statutes, once we submit a volreg, they have a DUTY to enter it into the state database. so you have a situation where one gun has two number. Most likely, they just ignore the law and say "too late, we didn't get to you, won't enter it."
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Old 06-28-2018, 4:31 PM
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Well, for those of us that have made a "good faith" effort in trying to do the right thing legally, that isn't exactly a ray of sunshine.
The law as written was changed several times, and the DOJ's answers to questions were varied, vague, and even more confusing, provided anyone was able to even GET an answer to a question.

I would like to remain hopeful, that this will be resolved positively, soon.

At this point, there are other options that I wish I would have explored.
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Old 06-29-2018, 7:36 AM
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Hopefully all of these failures will make it even easier to topple this idiotic legislation.

What does this 2019 deadline mean for future builds? Are they effectively banning 80%?
And for those who may have gone featureless following the previous serialization guidelines?
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