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  #1  
Old 01-27-2018, 9:58 AM
tx2ca tx2ca is offline
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Default DROS Approved, Denied- CCW HOlder

Sorry for this long post but hoping to get some help or good advice. I hope I'm not violating any of the calguns policies.

So first let me be clear that I am not perfect. 25 years ago while in college I made a choice that resulted in a felony arrest and conviction. Dumb choice but wouldn't take it back. That choice let me know there is real consequences and needless to say I have never been in trouble again. The judge threw the book at me. 2 years probation, $5000 fine, 250 hours community service. He told me that I'm an adult and if this is the route I would like to take than so be it I would end up in prison. On a side note he told me if I got a job, paid my fines, didn't get in anymore trouble he would "set aside" my conviction and dismiss it. I have been with the same job since I was placed on probation and had all my rights restored at the end of the probation.

I have never had a problem purchasing a gun in TX but now I live in CA. I also have my CCW for TX and AZ.

Fast forward to now. In October 2017 I tried to make my first gun purchase in CA. I was denied. I went through the process of the record review, got my FBI rap sheet, and contacted the State of TX to verify my criminal history. My FBI rap sheet shows the correct disposition- "set aside" and dismissed", the TX Dept of Public Safety says there are no convictions on my record that would prevent me from purchasing a firearm. The CA DOJ says they don't see any flags from the FBI but they don't understand what they are reading and it looks like I have a conviction. After several weeks I was able to speak to someone in the record review office and she said it looks clear so she or someone in the office approved my 2nd DROS in November. I picked up my firearm with no issues.

On 1/15/2018 I was buying some ammo saw a deal I couldn't refuse and purchased another firearm. 4 days later I received a call saying DROS denied. I went back through the first process. Got my FBI rap sheet, nothing changed, TX DPS shows no convictions, started teh record review with CA but called the number I had and spoke to someone else. She stated there are no flags on my FBI record but was confused by what she was reading.

Does CA DOJ manually process DROS applications? Could they be making a mistake? What can I do to ensure I don't run into these problems again? What can be causing the denials? Keep in mind I just renewed my CCW for AZ and still have a active one for TX.
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:19 AM
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Yes, CA manually processes DROS.
CA looks for anything that may be reason to deny the purchase.
Their default answer is no sale if everything is not perfect.

They don't care about your other state CCWs as CA's position is CCWs in other states should not be given out unless they use the same criteria as CA.

I would contact DOJ and find out what is the specific thing that is getting their attention.
Possibly your charge dismissal is somehow not properly recorded.
I recently helped a friend with this problem, the court had not entered his dismissal correctly.
He had to contact the court and get them to update his record.
After that, it took about 30 days for the DOJ system to give him an approval to buy.

Good luck!
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:50 AM
tx2ca tx2ca is offline
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Thanks for your response. I have contacted them and the lady informed me that she was confused by what she was reading. She did state there are no flags on my FBI record but it looks like I was convicted and she was unsure of how they handle TX dismissals. It just worries me because I travel and carry a concealed weapon in states I'm allowed to. I don't ever want to break the law again. Lesson learned the first time 25 years ago.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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How are you able to reach someone at the DOJ that's willing to discuss your records with you? I too am dealing with denied DROS attempts. Thanks for your help and good luck. You may want to go thru a VAF and get a UPIN to put on your DROS apps to avoid future delays.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:10 PM
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You need to do the livescan using the form that was sent with your denial letter. That will start the appeal.

You need to get CERTIFIED or EXEMPLIFIED copies of the court order from the clerk of the court where this case was handled in Texas, which dismissed your indictment and discharged you from probation (aka the 42.12(20)(a) expungement).

You need to send an original certified copy of the Texas expungement order to CA DOJ. I would reference your firearms purchase denial appeal in progress when sending them this, and your CA Drivers license #. I would also include copies of your CCWs.

You can also refer them to these documents:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-...s/1068190.html

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...pdf/jc0396.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Papa View Post
You may want to go thru a VAF and get a UPIN to put on your DROS apps to avoid future delays.
If he has CCWs from two states and has been buying guns, his problem is not with the feds and a UPIN will not help him. Plus even if you have a UPIN, there is NO WAY to use it in the state of CA. There is no place to enter it on the DROS. The State of CA is the point of contact for all NICS checks in CA, and they do not use UPINs. And the fact that you can write it on the 4473 means nothing, because it goes nowhere here.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 01-27-2018 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:16 PM
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You have to remember that State employees are not hired for their intelligence.

Every time that you try to DROS a gun a new State employee will be confused by the same information because they can't process new information intelligently. They are limited to routine data processing.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Papa View Post
How are you able to reach someone at the DOJ that's willing to discuss your records with you? I too am dealing with denied DROS attempts. Thanks for your help and good luck. You may want to go thru a VAF and get a UPIN to put on your DROS apps to avoid future delays.
I sent an email and they responded with a phone number to contact them with my questions. It took about 3/4 weeks to get a response. They will only return your calls which typically takes about 2/3 days and will only help you if you have already received your paperwork from them.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Hunt View Post
You have to remember that State employees are not hired for their intelligence.

Every time that you try to DROS a gun a new State employee will be confused by the same information because they can't process new information intelligently. They are limited to routine data processing.
Thanks. That helps. I was denied the first time, went through the process got approved and submitted a new DROS and got denied again. I didn't realize an employee reviews the same data each time. So it would be reasonable to suggest it is the person that is reviewing the most recent submission their perception or understanding of the background.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
You need to do the livescan using the form that was sent with your denial letter. That will start the appeal.

You need to get CERTIFIED or EXEMPLIFIED copies of the court order from the clerk of the court where this case was handled in Texas, which dismissed your indictment and discharged you from probation (aka the 42.12(20)(a) expungement).

You need to send an original certified copy of the Texas expungement order to CA DOJ. I would reference your firearms purchase denial appeal in progress when sending them this. I would also include copies of your CCWs.

You can also refer them to these documents:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-...s/1068190.html

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...pdf/jc0396.pdf



If he has CCWs from two states and has been buying guns, his problem is not with the feds and a UPIN will not help him. Plus even if you have a UPIN, there is NO WAY to use it in the state of CA. There is no place to enter it on the DROS. The State of CA is the point of contact for all NICS checks in CA, and they do not use UPINs. And the fact that you can write it on the 4473 means nothing, because it goes nowhere here.
Ok that's great information to know! Thank you Skyhawk!
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:36 PM
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[QUOTE=SkyHawk;21208147]You need to do the livescan using the form that was sent with your denial letter. That will start the appeal.

You need to get CERTIFIED or EXEMPLIFIED copies of the court order from the clerk of the court where this case was handled in Texas, which dismissed your indictment and discharged you from probation (aka the 42.12(20)(a) expungement).

You need to send an original certified copy of the Texas expungement order to CA DOJ. I would reference your firearms purchase denial appeal in progress when sending them this, and your CA Drivers license #. I would also include copies of your CCWs.

You can also refer them to these documents:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-...s/1068190.html

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...pdf/jc0396.pdf


Thank you. Last time I was able to get it resolved over the phone after the appeal process. This time I will send all records and refer them to the court documents I have.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tx2ca View Post

Thank you. Last time I was able to get it resolved over the phone after the appeal process. This time I will send all records and refer them to the court documents I have.
Ok I just saw that. I originally did not see that you already went through this once here.

I would still get those certified documents. You need to have one in your possession always, stored in the safe or something. It is important that you be able to show you received this relief if it ever becomes an issue, especially in a serious matter like someone charges you with felon in possession.

When you send a copy to DOJ, I would also ask them to make a note on your file so this will not hold up your DROS in the future. They can do that, and it will fix the problem.

You should also go ahead and use the contact form on the website again and see if you can handle this over the phone. Again, ask them to make a note on your file.

Good luck!
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Old 02-01-2018, 9:40 PM
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Today i received an unexpected phone call. Turners called me and said they just received a call from the DOJ and said my purchase was approved. No need to do another DROS or pay any other fees. He told me he has never seen this before and said I can come get my gun. The only issue is he sold the one I was going to buy. It was used. However he discounted a new one for me and it will only cost me another $50 and I'm ok with that. Overall I am pleased with what LIsa at the DOJ was able to do. She seemed as she really cared to handle the issue.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tx2ca View Post
Today i received an unexpected phone call. Turners called me and said they just received a call from the DOJ and said my purchase was approved. No need to do another DROS or pay any other fees. He told me he has never seen this before and said I can come get my gun. The only issue is he sold the one I was going to buy. It was used. However he discounted a new one for me and it will only cost me another $50 and I'm ok with that. Overall I am pleased with what LIsa at the DOJ was able to do. She seemed as she really cared to handle the issue.
Very pleased to hear that our government is actually helping people. Many thanks to Lisa. That is the way it is 'sposed to be. Also good for Turners!
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tx2ca View Post
Today i received an unexpected phone call. Turners called me and said they just received a call from the DOJ and said my purchase was approved. No need to do another DROS or pay any other fees. He told me he has never seen this before and said I can come get my gun. The only issue is he sold the one I was going to buy. It was used. However he discounted a new one for me and it will only cost me another $50 and I'm ok with that. Overall I am pleased with what LIsa at the DOJ was able to do. She seemed as she really cared to handle the issue.
WTF! The DROS you just got approved was for the gun the sold; make, model and serial number. They will have to do a new DROS for this other gun
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:28 AM
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Approval after denial is rare but it happens. Too bad they sold your gun, now you do have to start it all over again including the wait. But it still sounds like good news, congrats!
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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WTF! The DROS you just got approved was for the gun the sold; make, model and serial number. They will have to do a new DROS for this other gun
Exactly what I was thinking, can't sell him a firearm with a different serial number!
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Old 02-02-2018, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgarbarino View Post
Exactly what I was thinking, can't sell him a firearm with a different serial number!
I expect some other snafu when OP walks in to get his new gun. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up insisting on a second DROS.
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Old 02-02-2018, 3:11 PM
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In theory they could submit a DROS correction for the serial number. I have had serial numbers entered wrong before and the FFL corrected them after it was discovered, and I never even had to go back.
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Old 02-02-2018, 3:13 PM
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It isn't a "correction" to that sale but an entirely different sale.
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Old 02-03-2018, 4:32 PM
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The managers at Turners said he informed DOJ of the issue with the sale. They said if the gun was the same make/model he could change the serial number and I would not have to DROS again. Hope this is true so I don't have to wait another 10 days.
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Old 02-03-2018, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Hunt View Post
You have to remember that State employees are not hired for their intelligence.

Every time that you try to DROS a gun a new State employee will be confused by the same information because they can't process new information intelligently. They are limited to routine data processing.
Not to thread jack, but these are the same employees processing all the AW registrations, and people keep mentioning AW approval/denials to define what's legal and interpret the laws
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Old 02-03-2018, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tx2ca View Post
The managers at Turners said he informed DOJ of the issue with the sale. They said if the gun was the same make/model he could change the serial number and I would not have to DROS again. Hope this is true so I don't have to wait another 10 days.
It sounds legit to me. Not sure how the fix on the 4473 works, but probably just some whiteout or strike through and new line since it is just a paper record that never goes anywhere.
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Old 02-03-2018, 7:28 PM
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With both a serial number change and a "used" to "new" change, you'll need to re-DROS. One correction max per DROS, sorry.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:23 AM
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Picked up my handgun with no issues. No new DROS and no wait. Not sure of the laws in CA but Turners said the DOJ allowed the change with no questions.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:55 AM
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Good to know it worked out for you!
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
In theory they could submit a DROS correction for the serial number. I have had serial numbers entered wrong before and the FFL corrected them after it was discovered, and I never even had to go back.
Years back, I bought a new gun from a retail store & after two failed factory repairs, the store owner just handed me a replacement gun to take home on the spot. He said something about a "Corrected Serial Number DROS."
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