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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #5761  
Old 03-24-2021, 3:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Garand Hunter View Post
Hey Bros, what happened to Dale's Clocks and Coins in Antioch, East Bay, big time stash of silver coins usta be for sale there. Its closed, no sign notes etc and the windows are covered over with brown butcher paper. I noticed it closed about two months ago.

Anybody know ?

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  #5762  
Old 03-25-2021, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
Gold is in the $1830s about 10% off the summer high here. Inflation is supported to be going higher, commodity prices are supposed to go higher this year, and even with all the election uncertainty, and recent increases in interest rates, gold can’t seem to get past $2000.

I bet a big reason is due to the bitcoin and the stock market rise this past year. I wonder if we can see an increase in gold without seeing drops in BTC and the stock market in general.
I agree that this drop in the price of gold is because of the rise of bitcoin. Most likely it will not be until the summer that the price of gold will start to rise again.

Last edited by williamramirez; 03-28-2021 at 6:59 AM..
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  #5763  
Old 04-09-2021, 3:33 AM
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I've gone from $0 PM (except for a small coin collection) to about 10% in an IRA (NEM & WPM - mining/streaming stocks) since Dec 2019. Recently bought Barrick (GOLD), a mining stock, in my regular brokerage account. I've doubled my physical coin collection (Dec 2019).

I feel like I'm investing for the apocalypse.

Last edited by vmonkey; 04-09-2021 at 3:44 AM..
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  #5764  
Old 04-09-2021, 7:51 AM
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Default 10% is a lot

Seems like a lot to me for an IRA. I keep about 2-3% is PSLV; actually bought a bunch more during the "collapse" last year as Covid the market and made out like a bandit selling it for great gains in the summer. I haven't bought back in yet but what I have in the account is all profit now. It should be noted I kept 2% in PSLV for years which was the DOG of my account big time. In hand I've enjoyed 2-1500 orders from JM Bullion but I missed out on the third. A nice GP100 came up that didn't leave me 1500 to order so I passed.

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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
I've gone from $0 PM (except for a small coin collection) to about 10% in an IRA (NEM & WPM - mining/streaming stocks) since Dec 2019. Recently bought Barrick (GOLD), a mining stock, in my regular brokerage account. I've doubled my physical coin collection (Dec 2019).

I feel like I'm investing for the apocalypse.
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  #5765  
Old 04-09-2021, 1:59 PM
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I only have PMs in that one IRA; overall they make up maybe 7-8%. Part of the reason is I had nice growth from NEM last year. But I agree, too much. I'll reevaluate again in the summer and take profits (hopefully).
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  #5766  
Old 04-09-2021, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
I've gone from $0 PM (except for a small coin collection) to about 10% in an IRA (NEM & WPM - mining/streaming stocks) since Dec 2019. Recently bought Barrick (GOLD), a mining stock, in my regular brokerage account. I've doubled my physical coin collection (Dec 2019).

I feel like I'm investing for the apocalypse.
Yeah, I think we have a different understanding of apocalypse.
Try getting funds out of digital during an apocalypse.
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  #5767  
Old 04-14-2021, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
Yeah, I think we have a different understanding of apocalypse.
Try getting funds out of digital during an apocalypse.
Try getting funds out of a gold coin to cover your expenses today (in non-apocalypse times). Property taxes are due! I need to get 3 gold eagles out of the safe, head to my local coin shop during business hours, then deposit the cash in my bank to cover the check. Or maybe I should sell on craigslist so I can keep more of the premium over spot that the coin shop would normally keep. There's always selling ebay; I hope the buyer doesn't contest the sale and screw me. Compare that process to logging into a brokerage account, selling and transferring funds. Or just take some of the accumulated dividends (that mining stocks offer) to pay for smaller expenses.

Physical PMs in large enough quantities to hedge wealth is inconvenient and impractical. And risky. If you are approaching retirement age even a 10% investment in physical PMs would a lot of gold coins and/or silver to store and keep safe. Think of the value of retirement accounts, the equity in your house, and regular savings/brokerage accounts. 10% of these items may be 5 or 10 rolls of gold eagles or more (at $25k per roll) when one is near retirement age. Stick them in a safe? Bury in yard? I wouldn't want to leave my house and have this treasure unguarded let alone go on vacation. I guess travel in my retirement is not an option.

Don't forget there are also investment risks with PMs in general. Over long term PMs hold value. In the shorter term (during one's retirement lifespan), PMs value seems volatile to me.

My apocalypse comment you quoted was an exaggeration, a lame joke. I'm not investing for the end of the world as we know it, a financial collapse, or another even another recession. I just keep investing in mostly stocks &/or bonds and adjust the mix until I retire.

If I were planning for apocalypse, I think land would be my first and largest purchase not physical PMs.

Last edited by vmonkey; 04-14-2021 at 1:39 AM..
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  #5768  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:11 AM
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If you think gold is hard to liquidate then try doing so with land? The time line for converting gold or silver to cash is more significant then cash, but not so significant its unworthy. Crypto requires power, the internet, and that your wallet isn't hacked. BOTH gold and crypto require a buyer. I don't know who'd want to buy crypto in a crisis? Crypto is the new tulip and some got rich with tulips and some didn't. Yes my little $50 investment into a coinbase wallet is up to $750 wahoo. I'd gladly trade it for Gold.
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  #5769  
Old 04-14-2021, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
If you think gold is hard to liquidate then try doing so with land? The time line for converting gold or silver to cash is more significant then cash, but not so significant its unworthy. Crypto requires power, the internet, and that your wallet isn't hacked. BOTH gold and crypto require a buyer. I don't know who'd want to buy crypto in a crisis? Crypto is the new tulip and some got rich with tulips and some didn't. Yes my little $50 investment into a coinbase wallet is up to $750 wahoo. I'd gladly trade it for Gold.
My land comment related to the apocalypse (financial collapse, plague, zombies)
was to move there and hunker down. Iím in the suburbs... If I was truly worried about a collapse, buying land would be my first step. HarborMaster - you have a boat, right? You could sail away?

RE: holding large amounts of physical metals, enough to hedge your major assets, I just this it is impractical. For an older person nearing retirement, one might have $1M in equity in a house, $1M in a 401k, and $250k in a brokerage. A 10% hedge would be around 9-10 rolls of 1oz Gold Eagles. I personally feel thatís a lot to have in a safe. If there was run away inflation where your other assets became almost worthless, spending the gold would be worth the hassle, of course, but it would be a major pain in the ***. With hyperinflation, youíd probably have to spend all of the dollars you converted from gold the same day or risk further devaluation. What a nightmare this would be...

For crypto, Iím not ready to put money in it myself. I just donít understand (or trust) the exchanges or wallets. I guess I could buy through PayPal, Square, or Robin Hood but that kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin and it becomes just an investment (again, which I have little idea why it goes up). Many will have some exposure to Bitcoin through other stock investments. PayPal, Square, or TSLA stock for example.

I need to look into coinbase. If I understand it, you ďearnĒ coins by certain activities?
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  #5770  
Old 04-14-2021, 8:26 PM
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Coinbase is just a wallet I never earned anything with it the etherum and Bitcoin went up. You can probably get referral gains and those who mine Bitcoin if any still do can have it sent there,

In SHTF or just a really bad economy of rabid inflation or hyper inflation the gold or silver coins themselves will be of great value compared to dollars. Look a lot of people won’t take them. I know that, but more will take them then an encrypted transfer in a digital wallet!

And yes I sail away in a serious crisis.
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  #5771  
Old 04-14-2021, 8:28 PM
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I need to look into coinbase. If I understand it, you ďearnĒ coins by certain activities?
I think your confusing Coinbase with BP's lair.
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  #5772  
Old 04-15-2021, 6:10 AM
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Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
Coinbase is just a wallet I never earned anything with it the etherum and Bitcoin went up. You can probably get referral gains and those who mine Bitcoin if any still do can have it sent there,

In SHTF or just a really bad economy of rabid inflation or hyper inflation the gold or silver coins themselves will be of great value compared to dollars. Look a lot of people wonít take them. I know that, but more will take them then an encrypted transfer in a digital wallet!

And yes I sail away in a serious crisis.
I understand and agree on coins vs crypto. My whole point is investing in PM related stocks is more sensible than physical metal in large amounts.
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  #5773  
Old 04-15-2021, 1:42 PM
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Default Agree

While I enjoyed phenomenal returns on my silver stock this year because I bought in March and sold late in the summer it is very very very unusual. I usually keep about 2 to 2.5% of my IRA in a silver ETF. The coins I buy are more for SHTF and to buy guns and ammo with in rabid inflation

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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
I understand and agree on coins vs crypto. My whole point is investing in PM related stocks is more sensible than physical metal in large amounts.
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  #5774  
Old 05-19-2021, 12:41 PM
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Iíve been stacking silver. Not much but itís addicting and I believe the price will only go up. Who knows?!
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  #5775  
Old 05-19-2021, 6:55 PM
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So now that crypto is in a free fall...will the metal bugs come home?
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  #5776  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
So now that crypto is in a free fall...will the metal bugs come home?
Gold crested $1,900 today, I think that may be the case.
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  #5777  
Old 07-21-2021, 9:12 PM
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Metals are stagnant despite the inflation cries. Kind of surprised
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  #5778  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shooter777 View Post
I’ve been stacking silver. Not much but it’s addicting and I believe the price will only go up. Who knows?!
...The guys and gals that bought at ~$5, and ~$12 to ~$14/OZT know... ... ...
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Last edited by the86d; 07-22-2021 at 3:42 AM..
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  #5779  
Old 07-22-2021, 8:31 PM
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I was able to afford, what will probably be my last, $1500+ JM Bullion order to avoid the sales tax. I feel like I got enough now if SHTF I’m good.
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  #5780  
Old 07-23-2021, 1:15 AM
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Anymore I just buy novelty rounds like the Zombucks or something else that amuses me.
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  #5781  
Old 07-26-2021, 11:25 PM
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The whole Basel 3 and the Fedís conundrum will most likely see gold and silver rise in price. Silver has more of an upside due to its heavy use in tech. Gold and silver has always been money. Hell, I even bought some gold with Bitcoin when it started dropping in price the last few months. I see crypto and metals as a way to diversify my spending and investment options
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  #5782  
Old 08-27-2021, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
Try getting funds out of a gold coin to cover your expenses today (in non-apocalypse times). Property taxes are due! I need to get 3 gold eagles out of the safe, head to my local coin shop during business hours, then deposit the cash in my bank to cover the check. Or maybe I should sell on craigslist so I can keep more of the premium over spot that the coin shop would normally keep. There's always selling ebay; I hope the buyer doesn't contest the sale and screw me. Compare that process to logging into a brokerage account, selling and transferring funds. Or just take some of the accumulated dividends (that mining stocks offer) to pay for smaller expenses.

Physical PMs in large enough quantities to hedge wealth is inconvenient and impractical. And risky. If you are approaching retirement age even a 10% investment in physical PMs would a lot of gold coins and/or silver to store and keep safe. Think of the value of retirement accounts, the equity in your house, and regular savings/brokerage accounts. 10% of these items may be 5 or 10 rolls of gold eagles or more (at $25k per roll) when one is near retirement age. Stick them in a safe? Bury in yard? I wouldn't want to leave my house and have this treasure unguarded let alone go on vacation. I guess travel in my retirement is not an option.

Don't forget there are also investment risks with PMs in general. Over long term PMs hold value. In the shorter term (during one's retirement lifespan), PMs value seems volatile to me.

My apocalypse comment you quoted was an exaggeration, a lame joke. I'm not investing for the end of the world as we know it, a financial collapse, or another even another recession. I just keep investing in mostly stocks &/or bonds and adjust the mix until I retire.

If I were planning for apocalypse, I think land would be my first and largest purchase not physical PMs.


That’s pretty drastic. I have some physical gold and silver. It’s basically a hedge. I have cash for paying my bills also. If you have PMs you do t have to go take gold in and trade for cash and then deposit the money. You can just go and pay at the registrars office.
But most people who have PMs …that is t where all their wealth is located.

Most people have layered security for their houses. It starts with the neighbors. Go on vacation tell the neighbors to park in yiur driveway. Have them watch out. My old house I had a elderly neighbor. Greatest watchdog. I went on vacation she knew. I would get her a nice $50 gift card for a local restaurant or store gift card when I got back.
Security system cctv safes and hiding spots. Also you can keep a lot of stuff in a depository or safety deposit box instead of the hoise.

If the world goes to crap I can guarantee you that you will be able to buy stuff with actual precious metals, stones, Bitcoin hell bullets and guns bypassing the dollar dollar completely. I’m personally willing to sell ammo and take silver instead of actual cash.

Last edited by Rob454; 08-27-2021 at 4:18 PM.. Reason: N
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  #5783  
Old 08-27-2021, 4:32 PM
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The price of everything else is going up but gold and silver have been flat for awhile. Doesn't make sense.
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  #5784  
Old 08-27-2021, 10:44 PM
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Default What physical form of gold best for hedging?

Question for all the PM experts! Super new to PMís
Considering all the political and economical uncertainties
As of late. Iím looking strongly into diversifying
A bit of savings into PM, as a hedge to inflation and whatnot.


What form of AU would be best for that? Had my eye on the 1oz
Variety. Not sure if coins or bars would be better.
Definitely not interested in collectible coins or bars. Just whatever will
Sell cleanly back to dealers or private buyers.

Iíve heard Canadian gold maples are a good value choice? Not sure when selling
If a Gold Eagle will be with more or less than Canadian?

Torn as my lack of knowledge made me hesitate, and the price
Per oz of gold bumped up another 200 this past week.

Help a noob out!

Thanks Iím advance
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  #5785  
Old 08-28-2021, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by eric90503 View Post
Question for all the PM experts! Super new to PMís
Considering all the political and economical uncertainties
As of late. Iím looking strongly into diversifying
A bit of savings into PM, as a hedge to inflation and whatnot.


What form of AU would be best for that? Had my eye on the 1oz
Variety. Not sure if coins or bars would be better.
Definitely not interested in collectible coins or bars. Just whatever will
Sell cleanly back to dealers or private buyers.

Iíve heard Canadian gold maples are a good value choice? Not sure when selling
If a Gold Eagle will be with more or less than Canadian?

Torn as my lack of knowledge made me hesitate, and the price
Per oz of gold bumped up another 200 this past week.

Help a noob out!

Thanks Iím advance
I had to laugh at the PM Experts comment. There are lots of folks predicting the course of PMs growth and loss on this thread, not one of them has been consistently correct so take those predications with a grain of salt and do your own research on predicting the future market.

As to what to purchase:

Based on your statements below, you are looking to buy "bullion" rather than collector's or numismatic (rare) purchases.

Since you are likely to be trading within the U.S., go with trusted pieces such as American Eagles or Canadian Maples. I personally suspect anything from other countries as I wont have the means to accurately validate them such as with an acid test, or with a scale and size template.

Stay away from the fractional ounce pieces. You will loose money on the purchase and sale of them.

When you buy and sell them, you will pay a premium over the "spot" price. The spot price being the international market value of one ounce of the precious metal (PM) you are purchasing at that moment. Last I checked, my local store charges 6% of spot for gold (AU) when you purchase, and then again when you sell. So in essence I will loose 12% on the purchase and resale back to the same vendor for any AU I purchase from them. Silver (AG) has a similar premium cost above spot but I don't have that shops number. Each shop or site you buy from will have their own premium rate.

Be careful when buying or selling from private buyers. It may be difficult for you to determine if it is a scam or setup for robbery given the dollar amounts involved. Also, the person you are buying from maybe completely honest but may not realize they have fake bullion that they are selling to you.

Hope this helps!

OP
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  #5786  
Old 08-28-2021, 5:27 PM
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My preference in order is
Maple leafs available in several PMs, some size variants like .25/.5 ounce on the gold side,
Englandís or Germanyís mints both have quality products.

From
Apmex, JM Bullion and maybe a few others. Youíll pay a premium but be safe. Order over $1500 and screw the state out of sales tax. Saves you $125 or more
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  #5787  
Old 08-29-2021, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
I had to laugh at the PM Experts comment. There are lots of folks predicting the course of PMs growth and loss on this thread, not one of them has been consistently correct so take those predications with a grain of salt and do your own research on predicting the future market.

As to what to purchase:

Based on your statements below, you are looking to buy "bullion" rather than collector's or numismatic (rare) purchases.

Since you are likely to be trading within the U.S., go with trusted pieces such as American Eagles or Canadian Maples. I personally suspect anything from other countries as I wont have the means to accurately validate them such as with an acid test, or with a scale and size template.

Stay away from the fractional ounce pieces. You will loose money on the purchase and sale of them.

When you buy and sell them, you will pay a premium over the "spot" price. The spot price being the international market value of one ounce of the precious metal (PM) you are purchasing at that moment. Last I checked, my local store charges 6% of spot for gold (AU) when you purchase, and then again when you sell. So in essence I will loose 12% on the purchase and resale back to the same vendor for any AU I purchase from them. Silver (AG) has a similar premium cost above spot but I don't have that shops number. Each shop or site you buy from will have their own premium rate.

Be careful when buying or selling from private buyers. It may be difficult for you to determine if it is a scam or setup for robbery given the dollar amounts involved. Also, the person you are buying from maybe completely honest but may not realize they have fake bullion that they are selling to you.

Hope this helps!

OP
Thanks Chief for sharing your knowledgeable advice. I should have reached out and asked this months ago. This makes so much sense and is truly validating with some of the thoughts swimming around in my head.

Would it be safe to say, by investing in PM such as gold. You will most likely lose money (-12% for premiums), before breaking even upon sale? However, it will hedge if our economy truly takes a turn for the worse.

In 2014, I was doing a job in Venezuela. I had attempted to exchange some dollars for Bolivars so I could buy a drink. Our fixer came back an hour later, I kid you not with a small throw pillow sized envelope bursting at the seams with Bolivars. Had a little wtf moment. I still keep that throw pillow sized envelope as a reminder of what can happen.


Copy on bullion. I had my eye on Canadian Maples and American eagles in the 1oz variety. Thanks again Chief for your help!
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  #5788  
Old 08-29-2021, 8:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
My preference in order is
Maple leafs available in several PMs, some size variants like .25/.5 ounce on the gold side,
Englandís or Germanyís mints both have quality products.

From
Apmex, JM Bullion and maybe a few others. Youíll pay a premium but be safe. Order over $1500 and screw the state out of sales tax. Saves you $125 or more
I think I'm with you on the Canadian Maples. Probably in the 1oz sizes for space. Do you do silver at all? It seems that would be good for ftf transactions if need be? Heck, not an comfortable thought as the next PM would be PB if we are talking times like this, lol.

Yes I was looking at Apmex, JM and Kitco. Not sure which one is better. I did read about the British Sovereign this morning.

Thanks about the $1500 purchase/tax savings. I do want to learn more about the gold IRA break. At the moment I've been working too much to sit down and read. Much appreciated HM!
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  #5789  
Old 08-29-2021, 9:47 AM
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Physical gold / sliver in an IRA requires a self directed IRA. These are pretty expensive as there are fees to cover their regulation. I have not seen a self directed IRA that costs less than $500 a year in management fees; if anyone knows of a cheaper one please let me know. The last I looked it was more. That's an expensive fee to hold onto $5k worth of precious metals (10% annual). I use ETF's in my IRA for PMs but rarely more then 5% of the portfolio. Yes I know I don't have metal in hand with an ETF but its a lot better then those Self Directed IRA fees.

My metal port is pretty simple
- a few 10 ounce silver coins - they are big and bulky;
- a few bars that are metric 250 gram a little more then 8oz
- a lot of 2 ounce coins
- mostly 1 ounce coins
- some 1/2 ounce coins not a lot
- 1/10th ounce gold coins
- 1/4th ounce gold coins fewer then 1/10th
pre 64 dimes, quarters and haves in rolls plenty.
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  #5790  
Old 08-29-2021, 9:50 AM
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Physical gold / sliver in an IRA requires a self directed IRA. These are pretty expensive as there are fees to cover their regulation. I have not seen a self directed IRA that costs less than $500 a year in management fees; if anyone knows of a cheaper one please let me know. The last I looked it was more. That's an expensive fee to hold onto $5k worth of precious metals (10% annual). I use ETF's in my IRA for PMs but rarely more then 5% of the portfolio. Yes I know I don't have metal in hand with an ETF but its a lot better then those Self Directed IRA fees.

My metal port is pretty simple but its more for SHTF as I'm not a bullion investor. Hence I have a vary broad group of metals; 10 oz. 2 oz, 1 oz, dimes, quarters and halves for silver. Gold I only have 1/10th ounce (great for a bug out bag) and 1/4 ounce coins.
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  #5791  
Old 08-29-2021, 11:20 AM
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Physical gold / sliver in an IRA requires a self directed IRA. These are pretty expensive as there are fees to cover their regulation. I have not seen a self directed IRA that costs less than $500 a year in management fees; if anyone knows of a cheaper one please let me know. The last I looked it was more. That's an expensive fee to hold onto $5k worth of precious metals (10% annual). I use ETF's in my IRA for PMs but rarely more then 5% of the portfolio. Yes I know I don't have metal in hand with an ETF but its a lot better then those Self Directed IRA fees.

My metal port is pretty simple but its more for SHTF as I'm not a bullion investor. Hence I have a vary broad group of metals; 10 oz. 2 oz, 1 oz, dimes, quarters and halves for silver. Gold I only have 1/10th ounce (great for a bug out bag) and 1/4 ounce coins.
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  #5792  
Old 08-29-2021, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eric90503 View Post
I think I'm with you on the Canadian Maples. Probably in the 1oz sizes for space. Do you do silver at all? It seems that would be good for ftf transactions if need be? Heck, not an comfortable thought as the next PM would be PB if we are talking times like this, lol.

Yes I was looking at Apmex, JM and Kitco. Not sure which one is better. I did read about the British Sovereign this morning.

Thanks about the $1500 purchase/tax savings. I do want to learn more about the gold IRA break. At the moment I've been working too much to sit down and read. Much appreciated HM!
I'm a collector rather than an investor and I buy silver coins because of the price. I can buy many silver coins for the price of one gold coin. I prefer 1 oz coins with .999 fine silver so American Silver Eagles are my first choice. I also have silver coins from Canada, Mexico, England, South Africa and Australia.
Now, what you have to consider is whether or not the future remains stable. If it remains reasonably stable then collectible coins like Eagles, Maples and Libertads will maintain value for what they are. But, if future society goes to hell in a handcart then coins will be valued at their silver content only. While some people might speculate, given our current situation no one can be sure about the future of America.

BTW, I have bought from APMEX far more than any other website. They process orders quickly and many times have shipped the same day I placed the order.
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  #5793  
Old 08-30-2021, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
Physical gold / sliver in an IRA requires a self directed IRA. These are pretty expensive as there are fees to cover their regulation. I have not seen a self directed IRA that costs less than $500 a year in management fees; if anyone knows of a cheaper one please let me know. The last I looked it was more. That's an expensive fee to hold onto $5k worth of precious metals (10% annual). I use ETF's in my IRA for PMs but rarely more then 5% of the portfolio. Yes I know I don't have metal in hand with an ETF but its a lot better then those Self Directed IRA fees.

My metal port is pretty simple
- a few 10 ounce silver coins - they are big and bulky;
- a few bars that are metric 250 gram a little more then 8oz
- a lot of 2 ounce coins
- mostly 1 ounce coins
- some 1/2 ounce coins not a lot
- 1/10th ounce gold coins
- 1/4th ounce gold coins fewer then 1/10th
pre 64 dimes, quarters and haves in rolls plenty.
Thanks for sharing. It makes sense to have a PM ETF as well as smaller fractional coins for God forbid times when you need to use it.

I will have to check if Vanguard has any PM ETF's and inquire about Self Directed IRA's for the PM's.
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  #5794  
Old 08-30-2021, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
I'm a collector rather than an investor and I buy silver coins because of the price. I can buy many silver coins for the price of one gold coin. I prefer 1 oz coins with .999 fine silver so American Silver Eagles are my first choice. I also have silver coins from Canada, Mexico, England, South Africa and Australia.
Now, what you have to consider is whether or not the future remains stable. If it remains reasonably stable then collectible coins like Eagles, Maples and Libertads will maintain value for what they are. But, if future society goes to hell in a handcart then coins will be valued at their silver content only. While some people might speculate, given our current situation no one can be sure about the future of America.

BTW, I have bought from APMEX far more than any other website. They process orders quickly and many times have shipped the same day I placed the order.
Makes perfect sense GB47. Thanks for your input.
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  #5795  
Old 08-30-2021, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
My land comment related to the apocalypse (financial collapse, plague, zombies)
was to move there and hunker down. I’m in the suburbs... If I was truly worried about a collapse, buying land would be my first step. HarborMaster - you have a boat, right? You could sail away?

RE: holding large amounts of physical metals, enough to hedge your major assets, I just this it is impractical. For an older person nearing retirement, one might have $1M in equity in a house, $1M in a 401k, and $250k in a brokerage. A 10% hedge would be around 9-10 rolls of 1oz Gold Eagles. I personally feel that’s a lot to have in a safe. If there was run away inflation where your other assets became almost worthless, spending the gold would be worth the hassle, of course, but it would be a major pain in the ***. With hyperinflation, you’d probably have to spend all of the dollars you converted from gold the same day or risk further devaluation. What a nightmare this would be...

For crypto, I’m not ready to put money in it myself. I just don’t understand (or trust) the exchanges or wallets. I guess I could buy through PayPal, Square, or Robin Hood but that kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin and it becomes just an investment (again, which I have little idea why it goes up). Many will have some exposure to Bitcoin through other stock investments. PayPal, Square, or TSLA stock for example.

I need to look into coinbase. If I understand it, you “earn” coins by certain activities?
You’re assuming that someone is gonna want to convert gold to dollars. They may not want to. Someone my take payment in gold or silver or diamonds or precious stones. Most do transactions in dollars because they owe in dollars. Or that’s what the business takes. But some businesses or people my take a precious metal coin or bar as payment.
I know of I sell ammo I would gladly take silver as payment.

Crypto and paper dollars are nice in a civilized world where you have electricity, running water, fridge full of food with a working tv and a stove. Try that when there is no power, shelves are empty and there is no food no no cops no,power.

Silver and gold are both tangible assets and have been sought after by humans since they discovered it. It’s something that has to be physically found refined and made into a ingot/coin. Hey at one time Roman soldiers were partially paid in salt because it was rare. Desire and Rarity is what makes a item worth something.
My crypto is great. I have a intangible asset on my smart phone that is a pita to covert to cash.

And yea coin base does give out a few bucks here NDA there if you lisen to their little test/spiel. Start a account.
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  #5796  
Old 09-13-2021, 6:53 AM
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Yeah, I think we have a different understanding of apocalypse.
Try getting funds out of digital during an apocalypse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
If you think gold is hard to liquidate then try doing so with land? The time line for converting gold or silver to cash is more significant then cash, but not so significant its unworthy. Crypto requires power, the internet, and that your wallet isn't hacked. BOTH gold and crypto require a buyer. I don't know who'd want to buy crypto in a crisis? Crypto is the new tulip and some got rich with tulips and some didn't. Yes my little $50 investment into a coinbase wallet is up to $750 wahoo. I'd gladly trade it for Gold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmonkey View Post
My land comment related to the apocalypse (financial collapse, plague, zombies)
was to move there and hunker down. Iím in the suburbs... If I was truly worried about a collapse, buying land would be my first step. HarborMaster - you have a boat, right? You could sail away?

RE: holding large amounts of physical metals, enough to hedge your major assets, I just this it is impractical. For an older person nearing retirement, one might have $1M in equity in a house, $1M in a 401k, and $250k in a brokerage. A 10% hedge would be around 9-10 rolls of 1oz Gold Eagles. I personally feel thatís a lot to have in a safe. If there was run away inflation where your other assets became almost worthless, spending the gold would be worth the hassle, of course, but it would be a major pain in the ***. With hyperinflation, youíd probably have to spend all of the dollars you converted from gold the same day or risk further devaluation. What a nightmare this would be...

For crypto, Iím not ready to put money in it myself. I just donít understand (or trust) the exchanges or wallets. I guess I could buy through PayPal, Square, or Robin Hood but that kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin and it becomes just an investment (again, which I have little idea why it goes up). Many will have some exposure to Bitcoin through other stock investments. PayPal, Square, or TSLA stock for example.

I need to look into coinbase. If I understand it, you ďearnĒ coins by certain activities?
If things get bad enough where those holding financial investments are trying to liquidate then there is more bad news, you won't be able to.

Forget going to a bank, jumping on-line or trying to move Crypto or anything else.

Oh, you have PM? Where and how will you get it. Are you hoping some clerk has some higher sense of duty and is sitting behind some desk waiting for your call? Good luck with that. If you hold you own PM then what exactly do you think you can do with it? Even today you couldn't do much with it unless you convert it to something else, who is going to believe that PM in your hand is really what you claim it to be?

You'll head to the coin store as if that isn't one of the first places to evaporate and the people working there bugged out before you had a cup of coffee? Be realistic about it. There isn't going to be anyone willing to take your PM in exchange for anything. In the best of times no one wants it except other people who also think it has value and even then try proving your PM is really PM and come to some agreement on it's value. It's all nice when you have access to the Internet and there are systems in place to let you trade or convert PM into something else. In a real SHTF situation just how will you do that?

The land thing is about use not converting it to liquid funds. I don't care what your PM is but that nice gold coin with a face value of $10 isn't worth a gallon of water if you don't have any and need to get t from someone else.

During an economic crisis, sure, PM has value and that is to transfer wealth from one from of currency to another but this isn't the 1920s in Europe or the crash in the USA. The next one isn't going to be anything but a rapid slide all the way to the bottom and PMs will be worth less than anything else.

If you really think PMs are some hedge in a real crisis, today take a gold coin of slip of the same and try to buy something with it and see what happens. Ok, you head to some place that trades and sells PM. Now think what happens when everyone else needs to do the same thing and you go there and the doors are shuttered and everyone is gone. Do you honestly think they are going to be there waiting for you?

Holding PM like any other investment that relies upon a system isn't hedging against a catastrophe it's hoping one doesn't happen because if it does all your PM isn't worth anything. How will you move it if you have to relocate, call some broker who left town? Call some large institution where all you get is a voice recording saying that due to the major crisis all trades, sales and redemptions have been suspended?

With land you have some place to go. With certain supplies you can take care of yourself and your family. With certain supplies you will be more of less ok depending on how prepared you are. With PM you are the guy sitting there wondering where you will go, how you will get there and if you do manage to get there what will you do when you are there because you can't eat PM and no one will want to sell you anything for some PM you claim to be worth something.

In a real apocalypse or something else nails and 2x4s will be worth more than PM.
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  #5797  
Old 09-13-2021, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SharedShots View Post
If things get bad enough where those holding financial investments are trying to liquidate then there is more bad news, you won't be able to.

Forget going to a bank, jumping on-line or trying to move Crypto or anything else.

Oh, you have PM? Where and how will you get it. Are you hoping some clerk has some higher sense of duty and is sitting behind some desk waiting for your call? Good luck with that. If you hold you own PM then what exactly do you think you can do with it? Even today you couldn't do much with it unless you convert it to something else, who is going to believe that PM in your hand is really what you claim it to be?

You'll head to the coin store as if that isn't one of the first places to evaporate and the people working there bugged out before you had a cup of coffee? Be realistic about it. There isn't going to be anyone willing to take your PM in exchange for anything. In the best of times no one wants it except other people who also think it has value and even then try proving your PM is really PM and come to some agreement on it's value. It's all nice when you have access to the Internet and there are systems in place to let you trade or convert PM into something else. In a real SHTF situation just how will you do that?

The land thing is about use not converting it to liquid funds. I don't care what your PM is but that nice gold coin with a face value of $10 isn't worth a gallon of water if you don't have any and need to get t from someone else.

During an economic crisis, sure, PM has value and that is to transfer wealth from one from of currency to another but this isn't the 1920s in Europe or the crash in the USA. The next one isn't going to be anything but a rapid slide all the way to the bottom and PMs will be worth less than anything else.

If you really think PMs are some hedge in a real crisis, today take a gold coin of slip of the same and try to buy something with it and see what happens. Ok, you head to some place that trades and sells PM. Now think what happens when everyone else needs to do the same thing and you go there and the doors are shuttered and everyone is gone. Do you honestly think they are going to be there waiting for you?

Holding PM like any other investment that relies upon a system isn't hedging against a catastrophe it's hoping one doesn't happen because if it does all your PM isn't worth anything. How will you move it if you have to relocate, call some broker who left town? Call some large institution where all you get is a voice recording saying that due to the major crisis all trades, sales and redemptions have been suspended?

With land you have some place to go. With certain supplies you can take care of yourself and your family. With certain supplies you will be more of less ok depending on how prepared you are. With PM you are the guy sitting there wondering where you will go, how you will get there and if you do manage to get there what will you do when you are there because you can't eat PM and no one will want to sell you anything for some PM you claim to be worth something.

In a real apocalypse or something else nails and 2x4s will be worth more than PM.
I can't talk to others intent but for me it is to have something that may buy me access to, or away, by bribing whomever the 'gate guard' is. Whether that's a DHS guard rounding people up to a relocation camp, or a border guard only allowing 'approved' people in.

Each case needs to be assessed as to whether trying to buy your self out of the situation will make things worse or better. Yes, out in the middle of no where you are likely to be killed and your body searched for other items of value...again, you have to make the call at the moment with what you know.

If things settle down later and we move off of a fiat monetary system, then they may be of value once more.

In the mean time, I can liquidate as needed while the lights are still on so it is not a lost placement of money. It is a loss of future earning if the lights stay on as I am making way more with my investment accounts that the rise in Gold and silver value since I purchased them. Its a balancing game that none of us are perfect at.
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  #5798  
Old 09-14-2021, 9:48 PM
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Honestly I’ve often thought of it as something to pay others for their labors.
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  #5799  
Old 09-14-2021, 9:49 PM
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Honestly Iíve often thought of it as something to pay others for their labors.
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