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  #1  
Old 09-11-2017, 8:00 AM
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Default THIRD ever USPSA...

Hi everyone.

First ever was two weeks ago (!) at Prado with Gopher Flats. Yesterday I was at Piru with Deadwood Boys. The match was fantastic. Thanks Jon! Everything felt much more comfortable. I'm still not going up in rankings ... I think I was 66/82. Maybe a tiny bit better. In terms of rankings not much (though it feels much, much better - more fluid, more comfortable - now compared to two weeks ago.)

I think I figured it out (and others made the same comments) - when looking at my points, I'm actually hitting more A's than C's (in large part) as compared to like the top guys - like number one and down (!). However my time is like double (!) compared to theirs. So I'm actually hitting more accurately than the better (higher ranked) guys but much, much slower. I think next time I just have to haul and - of course within the confines of safety - just shoot and run fast. Of course I'm also shooting single stack, with the gun the way it came out of the box, 10 rounds, in comparison to the top guys running with red dots and high capacity magazines so there will always be at least five seconds or more per stage for extra magazine changes I have they don't have.

Anyway it's been real fun so far. One more key I found is SHOW UP EARLY! It took FOREVER to get through the stages because we got there late and all the other groups were ahead of us on the stages!

On the one video man, I could not hit the plates. I always loved plates. They always seem to go down for me. For some reason I could NOT get them to go down!










Last edited by krb; 09-11-2017 at 8:11 AM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 8:55 AM
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One more key I found is SHOW UP EARLY! It took FOREVER to get through the stages because we got there late and all the other groups were ahead of us on the stages!
There are different types of squadding and most of the time it doesn't matter when you show up as long as you show up before the safety briefing. You'll run into issues only when there is "open squadding" - first come first serve.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:08 AM
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There are different types of squadding and most of the time it doesn't matter when you show up as long as you show up before the safety briefing. You'll run into issues only when there is "open squadding" - first come first serve.
Yeah, this match is an "Open Squadding" event, so the earlier you show up, the quicker you get through. We let people start shooting as early as 7am, so if your group is there and ready to go, you can actually finish by about 930-10am depending on how many shooters there are.

Yesterday we had a huge turnout of 82 entries with 40 people checked-in by 8am.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by krb View Post
Hi everyone.

First ever was two weeks ago (!) at Prado with Gopher Flats. Yesterday I was at Piru with Deadwood Boys. The match was fantastic. Thanks Jon! Everything felt much more comfortable. I'm still not going up in rankings ... I think I was 66/82. Maybe a tiny bit better. In terms of rankings not much (though it feels much, much better - more fluid, more comfortable - now compared to two weeks ago.)

I think I figured it out (and others made the same comments) - when looking at my points, I'm actually hitting more A's than C's (in large part) as compared to like the top guys - like number one and down (!). However my time is like double (!) compared to theirs. So I'm actually hitting more accurately than the better (higher ranked) guys but much, much slower. I think next time I just have to haul and - of course within the confines of safety - just shoot and run fast. Of course I'm also shooting single stack, with the gun the way it came out of the box, 10 rounds, in comparison to the top guys running with red dots and high capacity magazines so there will always be at least five seconds or more per stage for extra magazine changes I have they don't have.

Anyway it's been real fun so far. One more key I found is SHOW UP EARLY! It took FOREVER to get through the stages because we got there late and all the other groups were ahead of us on the stages!

On the one video man, I could not hit the plates. I always loved plates. They always seem to go down for me. For some reason I could NOT get them to go down!
Because you are shooting minor power factor (9mm) you actually want to make sure you keep your number of alphas as high as possible. While the major PF guys can drop a charlie here and there and not feel it too bad, every shot you drop outside of the alpha zone hurts twice as much. Speed will come as you get more comfortable with the sport as well. What's important is that you are moving through the CoF safely and have good muzzle control/awareness. That is something a lot of new shooters don't have.

When shooting a restricted division like Production or Single Stack, don't compare yourself against the guys in Open. Look at how you did vs. the other SS shooters as well as the Production and Limited 10 guys. This will give you an idea of really where you're at.

Last edited by Mazdaspeed Jon; 09-11-2017 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mazdaspeed Jon View Post
Yeah, this match is an "Open Squadding" event, so the earlier you show up, the quicker you get through. We let people start shooting as early as 7am, so if your group is there and ready to go, you can actually finish by about 930-10am depending on how many shooters there are.

Yesterday we had a huge turnout of 82 entries with 40 people checked-in by 8am.
Hey Jon. The event was GREAT! It was just a long day. No complaining here. (And thanks for helping get me out and to the Hollywood Bowl! The Muppets were playing and it was spectacular! One of my favorite shows there!)
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:22 AM
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[QUOTE=Mazdaspeed Jon;20632791]
Quote:
Originally Posted by krb View Post
Hi everyone.

First ever was two weeks ago (!) at Prado with Gopher Flats. Yesterday I was at Piru with Deadwood Boys. The match was fantastic. Thanks Jon! Everything felt much more comfortable. I'm still not going up in rankings ... I think I was 66/82. Maybe a tiny bit better. In terms of rankings not much (though it feels much, much better - more fluid, more comfortable - now compared to two weeks ago.)

I think I figured it out (and others made the same comments) - when looking at my points, I'm actually hitting more A's than C's (in large part) as compared to like the top guys - like number one and down (!). However my time is like double (!) compared to theirs. So I'm actually hitting more accurately than the better (higher ranked) guys but much, much slower. I think next time I just have to haul and - of course within the confines of safety - just shoot and run fast. Of course I'm also shooting single stack, with the gun the way it came out of the box, 10 rounds, in comparison to the top guys running with red dots and high capacity magazines so there will always be at least five seconds or more per stage for extra magazine changes I have they don't have.

Anyway it's been real fun so far. One more key I found is SHOW UP EARLY! It took FOREVER to get through the stages because we got there late and all the other groups were ahead of us on the stages!

On the one video man, I could not hit the plates. I always loved plates. They always seem to go down for me. For some reason I could NOT get them to go down!
/QUOTE]

Because you are shooting minor power factor (9mm) you actually want to make sure you keep your number of alphas as high as possible. While the major PF guys can drop a charlie here and there and not feel it too bad, every shot you drop outside of the alpha zone hurts twice as much. Speed will come as you get more comfortable with the sport as well. What's important is that you are moving through the CoF safely and have good muzzle control/awareness. That is something a lot of new shooters don't have.

When shooting a restricted division like Production or Single Stack, don't compare yourself against the guys in Open. Look at how you did vs. the other SS shooters as well as the Production and Limited 10 guys. This will give you an idea of really where you're at.
Thanks! You think I should switch up to .45? My magazines are only 8 so I'd need an extra two magazine changes probably. I'm not sure if my score would increase or not...
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:42 AM
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[QUOTE=krb;20632853]
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Originally Posted by Mazdaspeed Jon View Post

Thanks! You think I should switch up to .45? My magazines are only 8 so I'd need an extra two magazine changes probably. I'm not sure if my score would increase or not...
There are benefits and drawbacks to both major and minor PF in Single Stack. Obviously with minor, you get 10-round magazines, which can definitely help with stage planning on target-heavy stages. With major PF's 8-round capacity, you are much more limited in your stage plan but can drop a charlie or two and not suffer too bad.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:20 AM
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[QUOTE=krb;20632853]
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Originally Posted by Mazdaspeed Jon View Post

Thanks! You think I should switch up to .45? My magazines are only 8 so I'd need an extra two magazine changes probably. I'm not sure if my score would increase or not...
[QUOTE=Mazdaspeed Jon;20632939]
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Originally Posted by krb View Post

There are benefits and drawbacks to both major and minor PF in Single Stack. Obviously with minor, you get 10-round magazines, which can definitely help with stage planning on target-heavy stages. With major PF's 8-round capacity, you are much more limited in your stage plan but can drop a charlie or two and not suffer too bad.
Start with major (45) and then move to minor (9mm) once you become more proficient with how the game is played (mid-level "B" classification). Once you better understand how the game works you will be able to take advantage of the 10 round mags.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:22 PM
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Congrats on entering the sickness that is competition shooting! For only a couple matches in, you're doing just fine.

Biggest opportunity I see for you to lower your stage times RIGHT NOW and not suffer in the accuracy department, is your reloads. Watch these videos again and look at how many times you ran the gun dry and had to do a standing reload. In limited capacity divisions (I shoot production, so 10 rounds), it's important that you think about each shooting position you enter and know if you have enough rounds to complete the position without running the gun dry. In most cases, this means reloading on the move before you set your feet in the next position, even if there were rounds still in the magazine.

Shorter way to say the same thing: reload every time you're moving. This will cut down on your standing reloads, which will help lower your times and keep the stage running smooth.

I've been doing this a year and am knocking on the door of 'A' class in production. Not a GM or anything, but happy to share what I've learned on my own USPSA journey.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:31 PM
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Congrats on entering the sickness that is competition shooting! For only a couple matches in, you're doing just fine.

Biggest opportunity I see for you to lower your stage times RIGHT NOW and not suffer in the accuracy department, is your reloads. Watch these videos again and look at how many times you ran the gun dry and had to do a standing reload. In limited capacity divisions (I shoot production, so 10 rounds), it's important that you think about each shooting position you enter and know if you have enough rounds to complete the position without running the gun dry. In most cases, this means reloading on the move before you set your feet in the next position, even if there were rounds still in the magazine.

Shorter way to say the same thing: reload every time you're moving. This will cut down on your standing reloads, which will help lower your times and keep the stage running smooth.

I've been doing this a year and am knocking on the door of 'A' class in production. Not a GM or anything, but happy to share what I've learned on my own USPSA journey.
Hi. I agree 100%. The problem I find is my mind is largely blank when I'm shooting. I'm just putting the gun on target, pulling the trigger, and my brain is largely off. I know that's not good ... it's just that I JUST started and my brain turns off when the buzzer goes off. The good news is safety is kind of soldered on to my brain so that's automatic.

Any other tips on speed besides magazine change? I'm finally actually doing mag changes while I'm running which is better than before. Also, when I do my walk through I SEE where I'm supposed to do mag changes - the problem is my mind is a blank once the buzzer goes off and I forget everything!
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:37 PM
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I shoot SS with a 45. Occasionally, I shoot 2 or 4 rounds and still reload on the way to the next shooting position. Usually it 6- 8 shots but but because of the options sometimes less.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:47 PM
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Any other tips on speed besides magazine change?
Sure. Understand that most of the stage time is actually non-shooting activities such as moving into and out of positions, reloads, getting the gun up, etc. You're splits between shots are actually pretty good for someone fresh into the sport.

Explosive movement. This is where you can make up some real time. Between shooting positions, you're a little slow in your movement and not moving full speed. Also getting the gun up quickly when you enter a new position. Work at home on pushing the gun out quickly in dry fire so that it becomes second nature for you to point the gun exactly where your eyes are looking (concept called indexing).

I fully acknowledge that this concept isn't something a brand new competition shooter should be thinking about (you're right that safety is always #1), but since you asked... here is a video from my match yesterday. I'm not trying to threadjack, so if you want me to pull down my video, just say the word. As I said before, there are guys much faster than me... I'm hoping it helps you see the difference in movement speed, which equates to shorter stage times. Much easier to save seconds (not tenths of seconds) in your movement than it is to just shoot faster and hope the hits are good.

BTW, it's not uncommon to forget everything when the buzzer goes off. Most people aren't used to the 'pressure of the clock' until they get some matches under their belt. This gets better with time.

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Old 09-11-2017, 2:24 PM
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Sure. Understand that most of the stage time is actually non-shooting activities such as moving into and out of positions, reloads, getting the gun up, etc. You're splits between shots are actually pretty good for someone fresh into the sport.

Explosive movement. This is where you can make up some real time. Between shooting positions, you're a little slow in your movement and not moving full speed. Also getting the gun up quickly when you enter a new position. Work at home on pushing the gun out quickly in dry fire so that it becomes second nature for you to point the gun exactly where your eyes are looking (concept called indexing).

I fully acknowledge that this concept isn't something a brand new competition shooter should be thinking about (you're right that safety is always #1), but since you asked... here is a video from my match yesterday. I'm not trying to threadjack, so if you want me to pull down my video, just say the word. As I said before, there are guys much faster than me... I'm hoping it helps you see the difference in movement speed, which equates to shorter stage times. Much easier to save seconds (not tenths of seconds) in your movement than it is to just shoot faster and hope the hits are good.

BTW, it's not uncommon to forget everything when the buzzer goes off. Most people aren't used to the 'pressure of the clock' until they get some matches under their belt. This gets better with time.

JEEBUS you are fast! I appreciate your posting your video and don't think at all that's a "threadjack." I just now am appreciate how slow I really am! I can see though what I need to work on. If you can keep it up so I can study it some more I'd appreciate it!

Keith
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Old 09-11-2017, 2:49 PM
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Keith, one other tidbit for now. Dry fire. When I first started, dry fire was boring to me and I didn't really see the point. But the fact of the matter is that most the top guys dry fire almost daily, and it really is the shortest path to success. Get a good dry fire book like the ones Ben Stoeger produces, and spend 15-30 min a few times a week on some drills. As I've progressed, I've found that there really is very little you need to practice in live fire. The bulk can be done at home in your garage with 1/3rd scale targets.
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Old 09-12-2017, 3:30 AM
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Here is my video from Area 8 a little bit ago. You get to see the stages and then the second video of it I talk a little bit about what I did or didn't like in my shooting.

I don't shoot particularly fast but I'd like to say I don't waste any time either. So just another visual reference point for you of a regular person who just works at it. (versus the true stars who it really would be hard to ever do what they do)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzSvUqX1qnE
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Old 09-12-2017, 7:39 AM
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KRB,
Regarding your mind going blank, that really isn't a bad thing so long as you are doing it correctly. The only thing you should be thinking about is what your sight picture looks like and whether you should be pulling the trigger or not. Work on your walk through strategy. You want to be able to close your eyes and visualize the stage. You should be able to see each target and know where your reloads are. As you get better at this you will be able to close your eyes and see the no shoots, target orientation, hard cover, walls, barrels, etc. You should start with where targets are and your reloads. That will free you up from trying to think about your stage plan and allow you to focus on your shooting. Anyone can do this.
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Old 09-12-2017, 9:01 AM
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KRB,
Regarding your mind going blank, that really isn't a bad thing so long as you are doing it correctly. The only thing you should be thinking about is what your sight picture looks like and whether you should be pulling the trigger or not. Work on your walk through strategy. You want to be able to close your eyes and visualize the stage. You should be able to see each target and know where your reloads are. As you get better at this you will be able to close your eyes and see the no shoots, target orientation, hard cover, walls, barrels, etc. You should start with where targets are and your reloads. That will free you up from trying to think about your stage plan and allow you to focus on your shooting. Anyone can do this.
Hi and thanks. The ONLY thing I see is sight picture, brown cardboard, and occasionally white and black cardboard. Where there is netting, I don't see anything. Seriously my mind is blank! Then the shooting stops and the world returns. It is weird. I wish I could exclude everything else in real world activities to the extent I go to tunnel vision for this!
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:01 AM
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Hi and thanks. The ONLY thing I see is sight picture, brown cardboard, and occasionally white and black cardboard. Where there is netting, I don't see anything. Seriously my mind is blank! Then the shooting stops and the world returns. It is weird. I wish I could exclude everything else in real world activities to the extent I go to tunnel vision for this!
You're going to have to work on this. It's imperative that your mind remain open and responsive to the very dynamic situation you're involved in. Safety is the number one reason. Effectively reacting to unexpected developments during the course of fire also depends on it.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:04 AM
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Hi and thanks. The ONLY thing I see is sight picture, brown cardboard, and occasionally white and black cardboard. Where there is netting, I don't see anything. Seriously my mind is blank! Then the shooting stops and the world returns. It is weird. I wish I could exclude everything else in real world activities to the extent I go to tunnel vision for this!
That is probably some tunnel vision from the adrenaline. As you get more comfortable with the sport the adrenaline will subside and you will see more. Having a fixed start routine helps with keeping you calm and keeping the adrenaline under control.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM
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You're going to have to work on this. It's imperative that your mind remain open and responsive to the very dynamic situation you're involved in. Safety is the number one reason. Effectively reacting to unexpected developments during the course of fire also depends on it.
Totally agree. Safety is kind of hardwired in. Finger is automatically on trigger guard and only on the trigger when ready to destroy. In classes I've taken they drill into us to put the gun at low ready when turning or moving. It's actually a problem for USPSA that I see myself dropping to low ready where everyone else drops to one hand and runs. I think I'm better off maintaining low ready for movement overall rather than getting into the habit of running with the gun dropped behind me. My USPSA times would be better but I think it would I'm in a place with better overall habits the way it is. I bring it up just to say yes, I'm in tunnel vision, but the safety really is hardwired and to the best of my ability I am fully safe.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:15 AM
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Totally agree. Safety is kind of hardwired in. Finger is automatically on trigger guard and only on the trigger when ready to destroy. In classes I've taken they drill into us to put the gun at low ready when turning or moving. It's actually a problem for USPSA that I see myself dropping to low ready where everyone else drops to one hand and runs. I think I'm better off maintaining low ready for movement overall rather than getting into the habit of running with the gun dropped behind me. My USPSA times would be better but I think it would I'm in a place with better overall habits the way it is. I bring it up just to say yes, I'm in tunnel vision, but the safety really is hardwired and to the best of my ability I am fully safe.
I'm glad you have safety "hardwired in." But I would put the kibosh on telling people that you're mind is blank while running around with a loaded gun. I can only speak for myself, but I would not want to be in a squad standing behind someone experiencing "tunnel vision" during a course of fire. Maybe you should slow down until you can get that under control.
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Old 09-12-2017, 4:09 PM
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You're going to have to work on this. It's imperative that your mind remain open and responsive to the very dynamic situation you're involved in. Safety is the number one reason. Effectively reacting to unexpected developments during the course of fire also depends on it.
Seriously? I am confused. A USPSA COF is static not dynamic at all. There is a write up that tells you about the course of fire and number of rounds and the type of targets. There is a 5 minute walk through before shooting the stage starts. Once someone is through visualizing the COF there are no surprises at all. Other than possible malfunctions there are no unexpected developments.

It is USPSA, not a shoot house with unexpected targets popping up from every corner.
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Old 09-12-2017, 4:15 PM
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... I think I'm better off maintaining low ready for movement overall rather than getting into the habit of running with the gun dropped behind me. My USPSA times would be better but I think it would I'm in a place with better overall habits the way it is. ...
Well, in some CoF if you don't run with the gun behind you, then you will be DQed as running in "low ready" will be breaking the 180. Of course, you can run in "low ready" backwards, but then you will look silly.

First and foremost USPSA and IDPA are games with their own rules and not tactical training. If you wish to mix disciplines then you will never be competitive at the game.
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Old 09-12-2017, 5:01 PM
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Well, in some CoF if you don't run with the gun behind you, then you will be DQed as running in "low ready" will be breaking the 180. Of course, you can run in "low ready" backwards, but then you will look silly.

First and foremost USPSA and IDPA are games with their own rules and not tactical training. If you wish to mix disciplines then you will never be competitive at the game.
Hi and thanks! So far the courses have had enough room with Low Ready it hasn't been a problem. My brain sees sight picture, cardboard, and 180 degrees so the gun is always pointed downrange. Some of the targets require getting close to 180 so I always pull the RO aside and say "that looks pretty close to 180" and he always says "nah don't worry about it."

Once I went up to the target and the RO started yelling at me about something. I didn't hear him clearly. I said "180?" I thought I screwed up and felt really bad. It turns out he thought I should have selected one target instead of the other and was helping me but I thought he was yelling because I screwed up!

So in terms of safety, I know I keep writing about blanking out but it's more I'm conscious of safety first, targets second, and I don't have enough neurons left over to fire to figure out my gun is dry until it's already dry. I really think with 3 more I'll be able either to count shots (not likely) or plan when to drop mags (likely) so I don't run dry.
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Old 09-12-2017, 5:06 PM
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I'm glad you have safety "hardwired in." But I would put the kibosh on telling people that you're mind is blank while running around with a loaded gun. I can only speak for myself, but I would not want to be in a squad standing behind someone experiencing "tunnel vision" during a course of fire. Maybe you should slow down until you can get that under control.
Haha! I get what you are saying. When I say blank I mean I am very conscious of what is uprange and what is downrange. I'm next conscious of where the targets are and sight picture. I just don't have enough neurons firing to be conscious of much else. It's not like I'm amnestic. It's just I have to concentrate so hard on the sight picture and the 180 that I don't have much left over to concentrate on am I in the place where I'm supposed to drop mag or should I just keep shooting. I think it's like learning to drive a car. When you start you can't fiddle with the radio and talk with your friends because otherwise you can't concentrate on safety and proper driving. That's where I am. Concentrating on accomplishing the task at hand and safety takes all my thought process so I really am unaware of anything else, meaning where did I plan to drop mag. If I were legitimately unsafe I'd have flagged someone or broke 180 or whatever. So far no one I've been with has had any concern for safety and I don't plan on providing a reason for anyone to have any concern!
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Old 09-12-2017, 7:29 PM
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Seriously? I am confused. A USPSA COF is static not dynamic at all.
Don't be confused. The running and gunning is dynamic. If you do it right, it's very dynamic. That's the "situation your involved in" that I was referring to.

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There is a write up that tells you about the course of fire and number of rounds and the type of targets. There is a 5 minute walk through before shooting the stage starts. Once someone is through visualizing the COF there are no surprises at all. Other than possible malfunctions there are no unexpected developments.

It is USPSA, not a shoot house with unexpected targets popping up from every corner.
Don't get complacent. I would call this both a "surprise" and an "unexpected development":


https://youtu.be/HUzTIKAbI3k

I'm glad that competitor wasn't running the course with a blank mind.
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Old 09-13-2017, 6:49 AM
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Don't be confused. The running and gunning is dynamic. If you do it right, it's very dynamic. That's the "situation your involved in" that I was referring to..
I think you have the definition of dynamic mixed up. A USPSA stage is static and does not change (hence, not dynamic). To put it simply one moves to a spot shots some targets, moves to or on the way to another spot and shoots some more targets and keeps doing it until one runs out of targets.

Yes, safety is paramount and one has to be aware of people, pets, wildlife etc. running into the CoF as it can happen at times however rare it can be as evidenced by the video you linked.

I am not arguing about being safety conscious just you calling a USPSA stage dynamic.
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Old 09-13-2017, 7:39 AM
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And to be clear, the competitor bore no responsibility for the cluster that occurred in that video. That is on the fool down range and the RO for not ensuring the range is clear. As a competitor you are focused on the targets you are engaging and aren't necessarily checking down range for unintended targets constantly. The RO owns the clearing of the range and ensuring it stays clear.
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Old 09-13-2017, 7:48 AM
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KRB,
One thing to note after finagling watching all of your videos. You will be DQ'd within your first year with your current movement style. You are moving with arms fully extended and stiff armed. That club appears to use some tight quarters to move within. Eventually you are going to bump something that will push you past the 180 with your arms out stiff like that. I would consider making a change and pulling the gun in a bit more when you need to move near walls. That stiff armed style also leaves you vunerable to sweeping your own feet or legs when moving around walls.
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Old 09-13-2017, 8:07 AM
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Hi and thanks! So far the courses have had enough room with Low Ready it hasn't been a problem. My brain sees sight picture, cardboard, and 180 degrees so the gun is always pointed downrange. Some of the targets require getting close to 180 so I always pull the RO aside and say "that looks pretty close to 180" and he always says "nah don't worry about it."...
Take a look at 1:35 at this video. No way you can navigate that CoF in low ready, unless one is going backwards (not recommended). At this match there were several instances where one had to move up range. It is more common than you think.

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Old 09-14-2017, 7:56 AM
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Don't be confused. The running and gunning is dynamic. If you do it right, it's very dynamic. That's the "situation your involved in" that I was referring to.



Don't get complacent. I would call this both a "surprise" and an "unexpected development":


https://youtu.be/HUzTIKAbI3k

I'm glad that competitor wasn't running the course with a blank mind.
Well... I am certainly conscious enough that if there were someone running anywhere near my line of sight I would recognize that! Plus while it is the job of anyone with a gun to be responsible for his gun ... isn't it the job of the RO not only to have cleared the field but to look out for possible safety issues, meaning a) 180 rule, and b) keep an eye to make sure no one's doing anything stupid like walking on a live range. To be honest, after watching the video a few times, it's that guys fault fully and 100% if he got shot. I mean walking around on a live range where people are shooting? There would be no one to blame except yourself, and POSSIBLY the RO.

I don't want to shoot anyone who doesn't need it, but that guy walking on the range during live fire is fully responsible for himself.
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Old 09-14-2017, 7:57 AM
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KRB,
One thing to note after finagling watching all of your videos. You will be DQ'd within your first year with your current movement style. You are moving with arms fully extended and stiff armed. That club appears to use some tight quarters to move within. Eventually you are going to bump something that will push you past the 180 with your arms out stiff like that. I would consider making a change and pulling the gun in a bit more when you need to move near walls. That stiff armed style also leaves you vunerable to sweeping your own feet or legs when moving around walls.
Got it. So pull the gun more into my chest when I'm moving?
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Old 09-14-2017, 8:08 AM
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Got it. So pull the gun more into my chest when I'm moving?
Between chest and eye level. Here's a great breakdown of one of the top shooters in the sport's movement:

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Old 09-14-2017, 9:17 AM
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I'm glad you have safety "hardwired in." But I would put the kibosh on telling people that you're mind is blank while running around with a loaded gun. I can only speak for myself, but I would not want to be in a squad standing behind someone experiencing "tunnel vision" during a course of fire. Maybe you should slow down until you can get that under control.

I think this is not the best advice. When action shooting there is a very definite process one needs to develop in order to improve. It does vary with individual but basically the shooter needs to be able to break down a stage and build a plan for the stage according to thier ability then burn that plan in and rehearse it- either physically or mentally- before they step to the line. Once at the line they need to go blank and be in the moment. Once the buzzer goes off there is no thinking, the shooter needs to be executing only, allowing the subconscious to take over and run the stage. There is no good that comes from thinking while shooting on the stage.
Speaking only for myself, when the buzzer goes off if I have done it right there is just a continuous movement from start to finish. The subconscious takes over and I do not see my sights, and make no conscious decision to pull the trigger, etc.. Now, once the stage is over I will remember where my sights were on the target, which order the targets were engaged in, and the path through the stage. Now, unfortunately I am not 100% at this as yet, and still find myself thinking when shooting which usually causes a nice fat trainwreck.
It is a hard thing to learn, and it is not even easy to mentally come to terms with, as we tend to attach a lot of decision making to shooting. However, the more we can let the subconscious take over the better off we are. Think of it this way, you know how to shoot. If you just pick up a gun and shoot a target you will usually do well because your mind knows what the sight picture needs to look like and when to pull the trigger. When you add in a time element or a unusual position or target or someone yelling "FRONT SIGHT" at you then you slow way way down because your conscious mind takes over and instead of just shooting you start thinking and the train goes off the rails.

As far as movement through the stage, you simply need to program muzzle awareness and trigger finger into your subconscious so even when you are running or falling or sliding you keep that muzzle in a safe direction. If you have to THINK "180" or "trigger" then well, you need more work, because at some point you are going to trip or slide or get hung up and not have time to think "trigger" or "180" and that will be the end of your day, and very possibly injure yourself or someone else.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:06 AM
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Between chest and eye level. Here's a great breakdown of one of the top shooters in the sport's movement:

That was really, REALLY helpful.
Thank you!
Keith
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:32 PM
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Well... I am certainly conscious enough that if there were someone running anywhere near my line of sight I would recognize that! Plus while it is the job of anyone with a gun to be responsible for his gun ... isn't it the job of the RO not only to have cleared the field but to look out for possible safety issues, meaning a) 180 rule, and b) keep an eye to make sure no one's doing anything stupid like walking on a live range. To be honest, after watching the video a few times, it's that guys fault fully and 100% if he got shot. I mean walking around on a live range where people are shooting? There would be no one to blame except yourself, and POSSIBLY the RO.

I don't want to shoot anyone who doesn't need it, but that guy walking on the range during live fire is fully responsible for himself.
Troy McMannus (the Director of the USPSA Range Officer program) has used this video for his RO trainings since it came out. The gentleman down range is a brass whore and mostly deaf. He had no idea he was in peril. The RO missed the guy due to the solid walls used on the stage and not being the last man uprange or having a designate to check.

As an RO it is your responsibility to ensure the range is clear before giving the make ready command. The RO owns a huge share of the problem here. As part of my prep for the next shooter I am verifying all targets are pasted and ensuring no one is behind me as I walk back up range where I expect my next shooter to be waiting for me at the start position.
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Old 09-15-2017, 4:04 PM
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Keith,

Shall we shoot the 24th? I am shooting Steel Challenge on the 23rd and IPSC the next day. Let me know so I can add your name in my squad.
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Old 09-16-2017, 8:01 PM
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Keith,

Shall we shoot the 24th? I am shooting Steel Challenge on the 23rd and IPSC the next day. Let me know so I can add your name in my squad.
Jerry I am DYING to go!!! But itís Rosh Hashanah that weekend at I wonít be able to come! I am looking forward to coming for the October one though ... can I squad with you then? I wish you were every Sunday instead of every fourth... Iíve been to Piru twice and it was great but as they say ... you never forget your first time! I had such a good time with you and Andy and the fellas! I think Iím finally getting to be not terrible and after the tips above Iím looking forward to -

1) Running not lollygagging to the next stage
2) Pulling arms straight back to me in transition, not low ready
3) Changing mags when necessary (i.e. I run out), but always changing mags at the designated areas so I donít run dry and therefore...
4) hopefully change mags with one in the chamber so I donít have to spend the extra second with each mag change racking the slide.
5) be content with a bunch of Cís instead of Aís if each C cuts off a second or two from my time.
6) take home national championship

I think those are my next steps in preparation. Any other recommendations?

Keith
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Old 09-17-2017, 4:48 PM
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...I think Iím finally getting to be not terrible and after the tips above Iím looking forward to -

...
5) be content with a bunch of Cís instead of Aís if each C cuts off a second or two from my time.
...
You are not shooting that slow in regards to splits, so I would not change that to give up the As. Shooting production, that is 2 points per shot that you'd be losing.

Time will be gained in aggressive target to target transitions and faster movement between shooting arrays. Basically minimizing non shooting time.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:35 AM
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You are not shooting that slow in regards to splits, so I would not change that to give up the As. Shooting production, that is 2 points per shot that you'd be losing.

Time will be gained in aggressive target to target transitions and faster movement between shooting arrays. Basically minimizing non shooting time.
Got it. And thanks. Everyone talks about dry fire. I just don't get it. Standing inside at home shooting at targets? I think my technique is good. Just didn't get all this talk about dry fire.

Until I thought about it and over the weekend I took my trainer pistol and ran from one hallway to the next, acquired a target, shot twice, then ran back to the next hallway, acquired a target, shot twice, then ran back to the original hallway, etc.

I thought to myself ... "THIS is what I need to be doing to transition quickly." I didn't have my holster and magazine pouches, but I think the next thing is to this with magazine changes again and again and again.

Looking forward!

Unfortunately I was not able to go to Piru this weekend and will not be able to go next weekend. Hopefully won't have lost my (limited) skills!

Keith
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