Legal to Buy Ammo Out of State and Bring Back?

[Rugerdaddy]

I searched the threads but couldn't find this, though I'd be surprised if somebody hadn't already covered this.

I was in a local gun shop/range last weekend talking to the counter dude and another guy who said he was LE. We all agreed the ban on mail order ammo was a bad thing. I mentioned I might drive to Reno and buy a large quantity. They both started shaking their heads and saying that's illegal. You can't carry ammo into California, very illegal. I told them I didn't think so, but left it at that. I could be wrong.

What's the straight poop on this? Thanks.

[NiteQwill]

Umm... illegal... No.

Buy all you want. Rent a U-haul if you want. Spend all your wife's money on ammo in NV and your money on guns here in CA.

[Opb714]

Just don't bring over cali banned ammo
No tracers By the way you can re sale em here

[headshrinker]

Thanks for the info....just moved here and am looking to stock up.

[chewy352]

Originally Posted by Rugerdaddy

They both started shaking their heads and saying that's illegal. You can't carry ammo into California, very illegal

In those situations I always call the person out and tell them to cite the PC. If someone is going to make a factual statement than they should be able to back it up. This usually pisses LEOs off but I hope they take it as a learning experience and dust off their PC books.

[jtmkinsd]

Originally Posted by Rugerdaddy

I searched the threads but couldn't find this, though I'd be surprised if somebody hadn't already covered this.

I was in a local gun shop/range last weekend talking to the counter dude and another guy who said he was LE. We all agreed the ban on mail order ammo was a bad thing. I mentioned I might drive to Reno and buy a large quantity. They both started shaking their heads and saying that's illegal. You can't carry ammo into California, very illegal. I told them I didn't think so, but left it at that. I could be wrong.

What's the straight poop on this? Thanks.

Even AB962, the "ammunition ban" doesn't prohibit a CA resident from driving to a neighboring State to pick up as much ammo as you can carry and driving it back. You could probably place an order with your local gang-banger, as I'm sure they'll be renting U-Hauls to bring the stuff back.

[BayAreaShooter]

I hate getting bad info from the gun stores I frequent. It seems to happen quite a bit too. I am not bashing LEO's but they should be the ones that know the laws better than anyone and he was the one giving bad info. Come on guy's.

[Opb714]

Leo is just another job title not everyone is good At what they do even though we expect more from em...also 85% of the gang members don't buy ammo and weapons in bulk... Those that have the Resources and money to so..?!

[jtmkinsd]

Originally Posted by BayAreaShooter

I hate getting bad info from the gun stores I frequent. It seems to happen quite a bit too. I am not bashing LEO's but they should be the ones that know the laws better than anyone and he was the one giving bad info. Come on guy's.

I don't like when our brethren get it wrong (gun shops), but it does happen too often. For the most part it's the employees who only know enough about the law to think they "know the law". Honestly, most barely can get through the paperwork without asking a question or two themselves about processing it correctly. The FFL holder can't be everywhere all the time to assure 100% accuracy in what the employees say, so if you come across something that doesn't sound right, you should ask to speak to the actual FFL holder for clarification. Honestly, even FFLs get it wrong too...FFLs are people just like everyone else, and don't have law degrees either...but will usually take the time to look up an answer that stumps us.

As for LEOs...has anyone seen the complete book of CA PCs? You could spend 4 years in college and still not "know" half of it off the top of your head...but they're authority figures and like to give an answer off the top of their head, even though they're probably thinking they're not sure to themselves as they're giving the bad info.

[johnthomas]

Originally Posted by Opb714

Leo is just another job title not everyone is good At what they do even though we expect more from em...also 85% of the gang members don't buy ammo and weapons in bulk... Those that have the Resources and money to so..?!

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

[Munk]

Originally Posted by Rugerdaddy

I searched the threads but couldn't find this, though I'd be surprised if somebody hadn't already covered this.

I was in a local gun shop/range last weekend talking to the counter dude and another guy who said he was LE. We all agreed the ban on mail order ammo was a bad thing. I mentioned I might drive to Reno and buy a large quantity. They both started shaking their heads and saying that's illegal. You can't carry ammo into California, very illegal. I told them I didn't think so, but left it at that. I could be wrong.

What's the straight poop on this? Thanks.

I'm used to dis, and mis-information on a regular basis. For stuff like Thompson Contender pistols, I usually try to be patient and understanding. There's a lot of old issues and some people haven't learned that those issues are gone.

However... THIS? this is laughable.(I did LOL as I read it especially the underlined bit) My response to them would be to laugh (somewhere above a chuckle probably), and ask them "Who fed you that line of S---?"

The only ammo restrictions are armor piercing pistol rounds (Edit: Yep Section 12320 and on a couple sections) and "incendiary" ammo like tracers and their kin. (Although shotguns can spit fire all day long, kinda cool... Thank you maritime flare guns).

[m1aowner]

Just don't smuggle fruits and veggies, hell to pay for that.

[chewy352]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

I don't think your response is directed at me but what I expect is if an LEO is making a statement of fact then they better be able to back it up.

[goodlookin1]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

If we are held responsible to know it and to follow it, and will get in trouble when we dont, doesn't it stand to reason that they who are supposed to be enforcing it should know it better than us?

[CSACANNONEER]

You can bring in as much ammo as you want to. The only ways it would be illegal is if you mail it, ship it without a ORD sticker, bring in ammo which is illegal to possess in Ca. or, just like any other merchandise brought in from out of state, you forget to pay the excise tax on it. Paying sales tax in another state does not mean anything to Ca. You still need to pay Ca taxes on anything you bring into Ca.

Originally Posted by Opb714

Just don't bring over cali banned ammo
No tracers By the way you can re sale em here

Almost correct. Some tracer ammo is legal in Ca. I have two cases of 12g shotgun ammo which is perfectly legal to possess and use in Ca.

[SanPedroShooter]

What if i bought ammo online and had it sent to my other address out side of the state? Could i then have it sent to me here in california?
Example:
Ammo bought from j&g, sent to WA state, then shipped to me here by a relative?
Its ammo that i paid for, could i not have it forwarded to me? I am not re-buying it.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by brent*

What if i bought ammo online and had it sent to my other address out side of the state? Could i then have it sent to me here in california?
Example:
Ammo bought from j&g, sent to WA state, then shipped to me here by a relative?
Its ammo that i paid for, could i not have it forwarded to me? I am not re-buying it.

I just buy from J&G and have them ship it to my place in California. Or are you talking about buying handgun ammo after AB962 goes into full effect?

[SanPedroShooter]

I'm sorry, i meant after feb 1 2011. As of now i buy from j&g too.
Also assuming "handgun ammuntion" becomes whatever each retailer decides it to be.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by brent*

What if i bought ammo online and had it sent to my other address out side of the state? Could i then have it sent to me here in california?
Example:
Ammo bought from j&g, sent to WA state, then shipped to me here by a relative?
Its ammo that i paid for, could i not have it forwarded to me? I am not re-buying it.

Here's the part we're trying to work around:

12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
(b) For purposes of this section: (1) "Bona fide evidence of identity" means a document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle operator's license, state identification card, identification card issued to a member of the Armed Forces, or other form of identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person. (2) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition does not include blanks.

This is not limited to "vendors".

It's quite clear that there is no restriction on going out of state and buying all the ammunition you want, presuming you are not a 'prohibited person'.

It's not yet clear whether UPS or FedEx or equivalent has the means to accept "bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee" - necessary because of the 'deliverer' language. Those carriers do have the technical capability to verify identity. We don't know if that is acceptable, or if the carriers are going to play ball.

[Timbob55]

For what it's worth, J&G sez they will continue to shipp to Kalifornia if you are a C&R license holder with a COE.

Can anyone confirm that?

[Wrangler John]

Originally Posted by jtmkinsd

Even AB962, the "ammunition ban" doesn't prohibit a CA resident from driving to a neighboring State to pick up as much ammo as you can carry and driving it back. You could probably place an order with your local gang-banger, as I'm sure they'll be renting U-Hauls to bring the stuff back.

Providing the out of state vendor will sell to Californians. I recall that some out of state vendors will not sell high capacity magazines to Californians. They may invoice large purchases of ammo, requiring I.D., and refuse to sell to Californians to avoid any POSSIBILITY of trouble with California. Using a credit card for a large purchase will almost guarantee a request for a picture I.D.. Remember, we will have a new Attorney General who may decide to bluff outside vendors into refusing sales to Californians. She may not use AB 952, but threaten a civil suit against the vendor. It may be a crock, but few vendors will be willing to blow profits on defending even a bogus lawsuit.

Same with reloading components, if they don't feel comfortable with the law, they just may refuse to sell as a store policy, especially Internet orders. This has nothing to do with the letter of the law, but the practical effect of FUD or liability concerns. I'm very concerned about this as I load all my ammo - wait and see is all I can do.

It's better that AB 962 is tossed by the courts.

[dantodd]

I would think his relatives have bona fide knowledge of his identity.

[cineski]

The unfortunate thing is there are many LEO's that, if pulled you over would arrest you for this despite being completely legal.

Originally Posted by NiteQwill

Umm... illegal... No.

Buy all you want. Rent a U-haul if you want. Spend all your wife's money on ammo in NV and your money on guns here in CA.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by dantodd

I would think his relatives have bona fide knowledge of his identity.

Except in the case proposed, he isn't driving to WA to pick up the ammo in person, but suggests it will be shipped to him - it would seem to be the shipper/deliverer who must see his ID.

[EOD Guy]

Nobody has brought up DOT Hazmat regulation on transportation of hazardous materials yet, but I'll try and settle the issue right now.

The DOT Hazmat regulations on transportation of hazardous materials (49CFR) DO NOT apply to someone buying ammunition in another State and bringing it back to California for noncommercial purposes. Be aware that bringing ammunition back, with the intention of selling it, may make you subject to the regulations. Small (?) amounts should not be a problem, but a truckload might be.

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER I--PIPELINE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 171_GENERAL INFORMATION, REGULATIONS, AND DEFINITIONS--Table of
Contents

Subpart A_Applicability, General Requirements, and North American
Shipments

Sec. 171.1 Applicability of Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR) to
persons and functions.

(d) Functions not subject to the requirements of the HMR. The
following are examples of activities to which the HMR do not apply:

(6) Transportation of a hazardous material by an individual for non-
commercial purposes in a private motor vehicle, including a leased or
rented motor vehicle.

[BigFatGuy]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?

Civilians are expected to know every nuance of the PC, why shouldn't cops?

[curtisfong]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know

If they don't know, I expect them to say "I don't know".

[Rugerdaddy]

Good info. Good thing we've got the Calguns community to keep things straight!

[robcoe]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

If I have to(ignorance of the law is no excuse), so should he, especially if he is saying "no that's illegal, and he is being paid to know them.

[MikeH1]

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for civilians, why should it be for LE, especially when the laws are their job?

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

[GrizzlyGuy]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Except in the case proposed, he isn't driving to WA to pick up the ammo in person, but suggests it will be shipped to him - it would seem to be the shipper/deliverer who must see his ID.

If he drove to WA and picked up the ammo, then drove it back to CA, that would be legal under 12318, correct?

I like ordering from Ammoman.com and the NV border is just down the hill from me. I was kicking around the idea of getting a Mail Boxes Etc./UPS Store box across the border in NV, then ordering ammo to be shipped there. I'd drive down, pick up the ammo, and drive home with it. AFAIK, that would be OK.

[Arondos]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

If they are going to tell me what is and isn't legal then yes I expect them to know what they are talking about. An LEO can't possibly know it all but I can be held accountable and be arrested for unknowingly violating some portion of these?

What do you expect? Well I think you were doing something illegal so I will just write down something random, charge you with an unknown code and we'll see what happens?

if they don't know the code then MYOB and leave me alone.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

Yes...

If cops don't know the laws, how are they supposed to enforce them? All the stuff you've listed is evidence to the fact that we have too many laws and too much government.

www.lp.org

[J.D.Allen]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

Yes I do. I am required to know them all...if someone is going to ARREST or CITE me for something, they had better know it as well.

[J.D.Allen]

Everyone who wants to can come on out to my house in Yuma, I'll show you more ammo than you can shake a stick at...

[sreiter]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

is it too much to expect them to know the codes they're enforcing?

[gunsmith]

please tell us the name of the gunstore, next time I'm in CA I want to turn myself in to the cop there and have him arrest me for bringing ammo over from NV

[chris]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

try that with a LEO and he or she will tell ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[stix213]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

So, you expect every LEO to know, every code?
Business and Professions, Code Civil Code,
Code of Civil Procedure, Commercial Code,
Corporations Code, Education Code,
Elections Code, Evidence Code,
Family Code, Financial Code,
Fish and Game Code, Food and Agricultural Code,
Government Code, Harbors and Navigation Code,
Health and Safety Code Insurance Code
Labor Code, Military and Veterans Code,,
Penal Code Probate Code,
Public Contract Code, Public Resources Code,
Public Utilities Code, Revenue and Taxation Code,
Streets and Highways Code, Unemployment Insurance Code,
Vehicle Code Water Code,
Welfare and Institutions Code.
If you expect this, your expecting way too much. Good luck with your quest.

There is a huge difference between a LEO not knowing every law, and a LEO making false claims that something is illegal when it clearly isn't.

[Cnynrat]

If he drove to WA and picked up the ammo, then drove it back to CA, that would be legal under 12318, correct?

I like ordering from Ammoman.com and the NV border is just down the hill from me. I was kicking around the idea of getting a Mail Boxes Etc./UPS Store box across the border in NV, then ordering ammo to be shipped there. I'd drive down, pick up the ammo, and drive home with it. AFAIK, that would be OK.

Have you confirmed they will ship to that type of address?