Observing the sabbath

[sharxbyte]

I avoid work, chores, homework on Sabbath, but I occasionally shop or whatever. It gives me a day to decompress and forget my problems. As far as the old law being nailed to the cross, do you also think that the laws against murder, infidelity, lying, etc. were done away with?

[TomMcC]

Originally Posted by sharxbyte

I avoid work, chores, homework on Sabbath, but I occasionally shop or whatever. It gives me a day to decompress and forget my problems. As far as the old law being nailed to the cross, do you also think that the laws against murder, infidelity, lying, etc. were done away with?

Can't the people that work for you on your Sunday shopping day enjoy a day of rest too?

[billvau]

Originally Posted by Underdog01

So what you are saying is that Gentiles sin if they don't remember that Israel were slaves in Egypt on Saturday?

Deut 5:15 15 "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."

That doesn't make sense to me. The old Law was nailed to the cross, not just parts of it.

BTW, the New Testament is pretty clear that sex outside of marriage IS sin, that would include sex with animals, and marriage is still between a man and woman. I think we can agree on that.

Underdog01, again, you are biblically correct. ALL unbelievers (OT and NT) sin simply because nothing that they do glorifies God. They are unable to glorify Him. They are dead in sin and children of wrath (Eph. 2:1-3). But, specifically, they had no clue of God's ordinances in the OT (only the Jews had the "oracles" of God and knew how to worship Him (Rom 3:1-2) - they had that advantage over the Gentiles.

Yes, the Law was nailed to the cross. You cannot separate the Law into parts as Covenantals do. It is a whole and Christ fulfilled it all. The Bible does no separation, so neither do we. Even those who believe what they call "the moral part" of the Mosaic Law is still valid, don't follow the required sacrifices, etc. that go with it! And, If Christ didn't fulfill the whole Law, I couldn't be saved! The Mosaic Covenant was an administrative covenant that Christ fulfilled and we are no longer under. We have ALL of God's moral commands in the NT as part of the Law of Christ.

Make sense?
God Bless,

Bill

[sharxbyte]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

Can't the people that work for you on your Sunday shopping day enjoy a day of rest too?

that is their choice and between them and God. I cannot enforce their rest. I can minimize the shopping I do.

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by sharxbyte

that is their choice and between them and God. I cannot enforce their rest. I can minimize the shopping I do.

So when is your Sabbath? Saturday or Sunday?

[Not a Cook]

Originally Posted by Doheny

So when is your Sabbath? Saturday or Sunday?

In regard to a specific day of the week (and ignoring the holy convocations that are the feasts of the LORD), only the seventh day of the week is the Sabbath.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11 (NKJV)

Although many have been taught that Sunday is "the Christian Sabbath", that idea is foreign to the Scriptures. Revelation 1:10 does mention "the Lord's Day" which many interpret to be Sunday (though others interpret it to be a reference to the Sabbath), but said mention certainly does NOT change the Sabbath to Sunday.

[Sailormilan2]

Originally Posted by Not a Cook

In regard to a specific day of the week (and ignoring the holy convocations that are the feasts of the LORD), only the seventh day of the week is the Sabbath.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11 (NKJV)

Although many have been taught that Sunday is "the Christian Sabbath", that idea is foreign to the Scriptures. Revelation 1:10 does mention "the Lord's Day" which many interpret to be Sunday (though others interpret it to be a reference to the Sabbath), but said mention certainly does NOT change the Sabbath to Sunday.

Good post Not A Cook.
Let me add something I have fairly recently learned, and it seems to make some sense. Many people try to use Rev. 1:10("the Lord's day") as meaning what we call Sunday(1st day of the week. Jews numbered the days of the week. The only day that was named was the Sabbath).
This seems to ignore the whole context of Revelation, which is John seeing "End Time Events" in vision. Since Amos 5:18 refers to, "the day of the Lord", Joel 2:31 refers to, "the terrible day of the Lord", and 1 Thess. 5:2 says, "the day of the Lord", it is not unreasonable to assume, or believe, that John believed he was in the end times when he wrote that.

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by Not a Cook

In regard to a specific day of the week (and ignoring the holy convocations that are the feasts of the LORD), only the seventh day of the week is the Sabbath.



....snipped/brevity....

All true. The reason I asked is he says tries to curtail activities on the Sabbath but yet he still post here.




Sent from my iPhone so typos to be expected.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Aye y'aye y'aye, y'aye y'aye!

There is no universal moral obligation to "keep the Sabbath." Christ’s finished work on the cross, abrogated the Mosaic law, and thus the 4th commandment no longer applies to Christians. Paul made this clear in his epistles, primarily in Romans, Galatians, and Colossians. Apostolic practice in Acts also confirms it.

To be under the Jewish law, brings its curse, for one can't choose just a "part" of the law, but all of it. In Galatians 4, Paul tells us that if we go back to the types and shadows of Temple, priests and sacrifice of the Old Testament, (this includes the strict law of the sabbath) then we are in bondage! (Read also Galatians 5:1, and Romans 8:15!!!)

If we go back to the law for the types and shadows of the old covenant then we're not free, but a descendent of Hagar. If we insist on following the "law," we are literally "trampling the blood of Jesus Christ." (Hebrews 10:29).

Either way, if we felt compelled to obey every precept of the "law," then we'd be "under the curse" if we actually carried the practice out (Gal. 3:10). The Jews kept the Sabbath, but after Christ’s resurrection no biblical data suggests that Christians kept the Sabbath. They instead kept the Lord’s Day, which historically has been the first day of the week (Sunday).

Every day should be for worship and praise to our Savior and NOT just the "Sabbath!" Sabbath keeping may have some "feel good" purposes, but it is not an obligation for Christian believers today, nor is it a sign of apostasy or disloyalty to God by not observing the Sabbath.

Orthodox Jews and one sect of the Seventh Day Adventist's emphatically disagree with my comments however, but I'm neither of those two classifications.

Honestly however, this argument is really getting old. Know your bible and know the truth.

[Not a Cook]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

Aye y'aye y'aye, y'aye y'aye!

To whom you are replying?

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by Not a Cook

To whom you are replying?

Primarily I'm replying back to the OP's original question in his 1st post. This is a question (sabbath issues) that comes up in many Christian circles more than not. The question has been answered already by none other than Paul himself and fulfilled by Jesus!

I don't understand why so many Christians teeter or outright "fester" on arguing which day the sabbath is, when it was an OT law that preceded Christ's work on the cross for us. To worry about a Mosaic law that no longer has any relevance since Christ saved us, seems to me to be a slap in the face to our Lord.

[TomMcC]

Well there you go.....now that the Mosaic law is completely done away with I can now have sex with animals, marry my sister and who knows what.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.” Somebody get a hold of the Apostle, he didn't get the memo. He's messed up by applying what looks like the 5th commandment to children, and even expanding it to the whole earth.

[Aldo The Apache]

I'm in no way a 7DA, a friend of mine is and we go back and forth all the time about the sabbath, so input on what you guys think about in Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, til Heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled."
Wouldn't the sabbath still apply since not all has been fulfilled i.e. The 2nd coming and heaven and earth still exist?
Since it was also said in Matthew 19:16-21?

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

Well there you go.....now that the Mosaic law is completely done away with I can now have sex with animals, marry my sister and who knows what.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.” Somebody get a hold of the Apostle, he didn't get the memo. He's messed up by applying what looks like the 5th commandment to children, and even expanding it to the whole earth.

Well Tom, you can do what you want with your sinful nature. Pre Christ's resurrection, the pagens thought they could do the same. In the end, God will judge you, not me. Do you really read scripture as if it's in a four sided wooden box????

Again, if you refuse to understand Galatians 4, 5:1 and Romans 8:15, I'll pray for you brother.

With strainge comments like yours, I've come to fully understand why Jesus said in Matthew 22:14 (KJV): "For many are called, but few are chosen."

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache

I'm in no way a 7DA, a friend of mine is and we go back and forth all the time about the sabbath, so input on what you guys think about in Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, til Heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled."
Wouldn't the sabbath still apply since not all has been fulfilled i.e. The 2nd coming and heaven and earth still exist?

Again my brother, Galatians 3:10.

[TomMcC]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

Well Tom, you can do what you want with your sinful nature. Pre Christ's resurrection, the pagens thought they could do the same. In the end, God will judge you, not me. Do you really read scripture as if it's in a four sided wooden box????

Again, if you refuse to understand Galatians 4, 5:1 and Romans 8:15, I'll pray for you brother.

With strainge comments like yours, I've come to fully understand why Jesus said in Matthew 22:14 (KJV): "For many are called, but few are chosen."

There are those that understand what I'm saying, it's you who doesn't get it. Let me ask you a couple of simple questions. What is sin? Is bestiality, and marrying your sister a sin? How do you know? Is the Apostle telling the NT children to obey the 5th commandment in Ephesians 6:1-3? Is that the dreaded Mosaic law?

Do you even remotely understand what sarcasm is? Do you know what antinomianism is? Do you understand that Paul in Galatians is speaking almost exclusive about not trying to "justify" yourself through law keeping, not wholesale jettisoning of the moral law as a standard of conduct?

[TrailerparkTrash]

I like these smilies! If you put a bunch of these together, you can make a band!!!

[TomMcC]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

I like these smilies! If you put a bunch of these together, you can make a band!!!

I didn't think you would or could answer even the first question.

This is what happens to sectarians folks. They blather on about the "the historic" faith and then go about denying it. What's so ironic is that you have a fellow that thinks he's upholding the "historic" faith, all the while presenting a dispensational view of the law and grace. Law in the OT and grace in the NT. Dispensationalism being the really new kid on the block. The Reformed and Lutherans, even though they disagree on many things, at least understood that law and grace exist in both testaments. Even the ancient free-willers (Arminians) understood this. Law and Grace in both testaments IS the "historic" faith.

To answer the first question see 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. It's that simple. Anyone that sins raise your hand, my hand is raised. I do transgress the law, to my shame. And if you sin...then you transgress the law also.

[TomMcC]

To answer the 2nd question, yes, bestiality and marrying your sister is sin. It violates the 7th commandment. Even though neither sin is repeated in the NT. That's because the Lord and His Apostles upheld the moral law from the OT.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

I didn't think you would or could answer even the first question.

I could easily answer your questions. I just elected not to.

Anyone debating you is pointless because it gets nowhere. Your prolonged discussions are boring.

Argument for the sake of arguing is sin. Arguing for the sake of truth is Devine.

[Aldo The Apache]

I'm in no way a 7DA, a friend of mine is and we go back and forth all the time about the sabbath, so input on what you guys think about in Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, til Heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled."
Wouldn't the sabbath still apply since not all has been fulfilled i.e. The 2nd coming and heaven and earth still exist?
Since it was also said in Matthew 19:16-21?

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

Again my brother, Galatians 3:10.

Does that verse apply to the law of Moses or the Law of the Decalogue?

[TomMcC]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

I could easily answer your questions. I just elected not to.

Anyone debating you is pointless because it gets nowhere. Your prolonged discussions are boring.

Argument for the sake of arguing is sin. Arguing for the sake of truth is Devine.

Fine with me. It get's nowhere because YOUR WRONG. What did you think, that after rejecting your evangelical free-will antinomianism, like 25 years ago, you could convince me it really was true all along? It's so bad with you that YOU still don't understand that Luther called guys like you twice as stupid as school boys for not knowing the difference between an indicative and an imperative. And that was in the 1500's.

[sharxbyte]

Originally Posted by Doheny

So when is your Sabbath? Saturday or Sunday?

I attend church and rest on Saturday, the Jewish Shabbat.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

Fine with me. It get's nowhere because YOUR WRONG. What did you think, that after rejecting your evangelical free-will antinomianism, like 25 years ago, you could convince me it really was true all along? It's so bad with you that YOU still don't understand that Luther called guys like you twice as stupid as school boys for not knowing the difference between an indicative and an imperative. And that was in the 1500's.

So you infer that I'm "twice as stupid" just because I don't agree with you nor want to debate you on your pointless issues??? That's very nice of you McC. Are you a "Christian?" Do you call people names that you disagree with at church?

Sorry, but you're just too confrontational, divisive and downright HOSTILE here with most everybody. Please read 1Peter when you get the chance. It just might change your heart...

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, -1 Peter 3:15 (NIV-1984)

[edgerly779]

I commune with my god while fishing, hunting, and enjoying being alive in free america.

[TomMcC]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

So you infer that I'm "twice as stupid" just because I don't agree with you nor want to debate you on your pointless issues??? That's very nice of you McC. Are you a "Christian?" Do you call people names that you disagree with at church?

Sorry, but you're just too confrontational, divisive and downright HOSTILE here with most everybody. Please read 1Peter when you get the chance. It just might change your heart...

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, -1 Peter 3:15 (NIV-1984)

I don't infer anything. I flat out KNOW you fit Luther's description. YOU don't know the difference between an indicative and an imperative. You have shown you don't in your many posts trying to prove free-will. Luther, when he said that was dealing with Papist free willers that taught EXACTLY what you're teaching.

It's also been my experience that when you point out the error of a guy like you they eventually get around to calling you mean, nasty, confrontational or whatever......Tom you're just a sinner and I can't deal with you. Fine again, I'm used to it.

[TomMcC]

Back to the OP.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So what is God from the beginning trying to teach us? That He was tired from creating and needed a rest? Or something else?

[sharxbyte]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

Back to the OP.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So what is God from the beginning trying to teach us? That He was tired from creating and needed a rest? Or something else?

he was leading by example. we will burn out if we don't take a break, and he decided that a weekly day without work was a good idea. I don't know why anyone thinks that's such a bad idea...

[TomMcC]

I would agree. I think there is something very important in that He blessed and sanctified it. Maybe, just maybe He wanted us to draw close to Him, to seek him, and to worship Him the whole day.

This was all pre-Sinai also, it applied to EVERYONE.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by TomMcC

I don't infer anything. I flat out KNOW you fit Luther's description. YOU don't know the difference between an indicative and an imperative. You have shown you don't in your many posts trying to prove free-will. Luther, when he said that was dealing with Papist free willers that taught EXACTLY what you're teaching.

It's also been my experience that when you point out the error of a guy like you they eventually get around to calling you mean, nasty, confrontational or whatever......Tom you're just a sinner and I can't deal with you. Fine again, I'm used to it.

....Ok ...

[TomMcC]

Movin' on.

[Not a Cook]

I came across this article (http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlin...ay/#more-72596) and thought I'd throw it out there for discussions'-sake.

The formatting is horrible and the beginning of the article is off-topic to this thread, but the latter portion of the article directly discusses the OP.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by Not a Cook

I came across this article (http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlin...ay/#more-72596) and thought I'd throw it out there for discussions'-sake.

The formatting is horrible and the beginning of the article is off-topic to this thread, but the latter portion of the article directly discusses the OP.

Wow - his Biblical interpretation is beyond left field, beyond the bleachers and beyond the parking lot. He's proof that you can make Scripture say whatever you want it to say.

He's entirely wrong and not worth the time to take apart. Any good exegetical commentary will give the proper interpretations that he perverts...

Bill

[Quickdraw559]

Matthew 22 NKJV
34*But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35*Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36*“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37*Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[d] 38*This is the first and great commandment. 39*And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40*On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Straight from the mouth of Christ, himself.

[colossians323]

Originally Posted by Doheny

All true. The reason I asked is he says tries to curtail activities on the Sabbath but yet he still post here.




Sent from my iPhone so typos to be expected.

Are you a Christian, or are you interested in learning more about Christ? I have been viewing your posts in the other forums, and it appears either you want to learn more, or need guidance. Let me know, I would love to do a bible study with you

[krb]

Hi. I'm an observant Orthodox Jew. Most of us who are observant are pretty conservative and right wing and live and vote that way (contra to those who are not observant and who are liberal).

Sabbath observance is not just a day of rest. It is acknowledgement that G-d created this existence and continually re-creates this existence, that he is the Master of the world and we are His children and His servants. It is a weekly reminder that we are not here to go shoot and have fun. We are here to fulfill His will and weekly we are to detach ourselves from this material existence and attach ourselves to true reality which is spiritual existence. Our goal is that this detachment from the material and attachment to the spiritual bleeds over to the rest of the week and we live all our days in spiritual reality.

This does NOT mean detaching from the material to meditate. It DOES mean we recognize that this existence is a false existence and that we exist to fulfill G-d's will meaning we ignore that which is trivial (other people's insults, that driver who cut us off, etc.) and instead concentrate on fulfilling His will (loving and doing kindness, giving charity, using your mouth to say kindness, etc.).

Anyway I thought I'd add the Jewish perspective.

Be well everyone!
Keith

[WASR10]

Why people who practice the religion of Christianity are not subject to the 10 commandments has already been covered, so I can simply state that I don't keep the Sabbath. I do think it is an excellent practice to set aside a day from work and toil each week and focus on God. I usually try to do that on the same day that I worship (1st day of the week), but if I fail to do so I believe I am not breaking a commandment.

[WASR10]

Originally Posted by krb

Anyway I thought I'd add the Jewish perspective.

Be well everyone!
Keith

Keith, that was some awesome insight, thanks for sharing!

[TomMcC]

Ephesians 6:1-3

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”

The 5th commandment applied and expanded.

[wpage]

God cares more for commandments then for sub titles...