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  #41  
Old 06-19-2017, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Constitutional rights restrict *government*, not individuals. There are laws that protect individuals' rights, but this is not the case here.

Violating lease terms is sufficient grounds for terminating the lease. The only exception would be if the terms were somehow found to be unconstitutional. Gun ownership is not a protected category and a landlord who is so anti gun as to put it into the lease agreements actually has an upper hand.

I am a landlord myself and I use a professional management company to handle my properties. If there is anything that I don't want to the point of putting it into the lease agreement, you bet I'd kick someone out for violating it. In my case, it's only about following the HOA rules - if the tenants violates them, he better fix it quickly.
No doubt. Beyond a ND resulting in a police report, how do you prove non-compliance?
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2017, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bk23103 View Post
You serious, OP? You don't need to disclose a damned thing. This is your castle, and what you do in your castle is your business.

With regard to move-in day though, I might recommend camoflauging your safe if you can. If it's a big one that's being brought in on a dolly, perhaps stick it in a refrigerator box or something when you're wheeling it in. You don't need your neighbors knowing about what you've got in your castle either.
Did you see the new neighbor? He brought in three refrigerators, must be one of those competitive eaters on espn.
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  #43  
Old 06-19-2017, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wordupmybrotha View Post
The landlord doesn't know that the OP is a "good guy".
And how often have you checked out a retail vendor for their 2A stance before you bought something on Amazon or the last time you went to a grocery store?
yeah good point ! I was thinking of myself as a landlord where I encouraged tenants to be armed !

I will modify my 1st post because others have made me rethink the statement.
If your renting and the landlord is wearing a sidearm and his car has GOA/NRA/Trump/MAGA stickers you will probably be welcomed as a tenant. All else being equal!
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  #44  
Old 06-19-2017, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nedro View Post
If I find out that you are lying about something on the lease, I'm kicking you out.
Do you need it any more clear?
Nope that is clear. Prior to your post no one had advocated for breaking the terms of a lease, hence I wasn't sure what you were getting at.
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2017, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
If I find out that you are lying about something on the lease, I'm kicking you out.
Do you need it any more clear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webologist View Post
Sounds like a yummy lawsuit against a wanna be little emperor.

Adorable... I'm fascinated on how you would provide the burden of proof as you to attempt to violate his constitutional rights.
This REALLY could go either way... You kick me out because I have guns, but nothing in the lease says I cant... Bad for you if going to court (sue) for breech on contract.

Lease says NO Guns. Landlord finds you have guns. Kicked out no recourse.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:07 PM
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My current renter said he was turned down multiple times for mentioning guns. Of course you have to take the area I'm in into account. I would say don't volunteer any info not asked for. It's a individual civil right so they can't say no due to owning guns; proving they denied you for owning guns is another can of worms.
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  #47  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:22 PM
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Before I got divorced I was a landlord of only 1 property. We had a property management company handle the rental. When I went through the rental agreement they were going to use I made sure there was nothing in there about firearms. That would have just limited the number of people that we could try to get to rent the house. And, being in Oceanside at the time, I knew there were a lot of military around looking for temporary housing.

If you don't want nosy neighbors watching you move in with your firearms, get a soda machine gun safe from soxlover. They'll just think you love soda and that you have a cool soda machine.
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Webologist View Post
No doubt. Beyond a ND resulting in a police report, how do you prove non-compliance?
You don't, but the legal landscape changes if you are non-compliant and it ever becomes an issue.

For example, if the lease says "no pets" and you bring a pet, you WILL be paying for lots and lots of upgrades to the place, including replacing all the carpets, painting, fumigating and whatever else the landlord can squeeze in. The standard "wear and tear" suddenly doesn't apply.

Messing with leases is about as smart as lying about the annual mileage on your car/motorcycle - the insurance can easily be denied if you are significantly off, so not only are you not covered by the insurance, but you're paying for this non-coverage.
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  #49  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bk23103 View Post
This is your castle, and what you do in your castle is your business..
Nope he's renting space in another mans castle. Therefore it's the owners rules. I'd wager most landlords could care less but the standard lease forms probably contain a no guns clause to relieve the owner from a lawsuit if something happens. Most leases also have a clause where they can inspect the property.
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AdidasCJ View Post
This REALLY could go either way...
What you mention is correct, but it's not "going either way." It's very clear what can and cannot be done based on the terms of your lease and there would be little ambiguity in the court.
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  #51  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:50 PM
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Nope he's renting space in another mans castle. Therefore it's the owners rules.
No, it's indeed the man's castle. When you rent, you have the rights of the owner. Nobody can walk in on you (except in extremely special cases, e.g., there is a flooding and nobody is home) or tell you what to do.

The "owner's rules" applies only to the terms in the lease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
..but the standard lease forms probably contain a no guns clause to relieve the owner from a lawsuit if something happens.
They don't.

The owner wouldn't be liable for anything of the kind anyway. No different than the bank owning the mortgage would not be liable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Most leases also have a clause where they can inspect the property.
This is a big misconception. They can put that clause in, but it's not legal, at least not in CA. Try that on a tenant and it's about the surest way to end up in court (and lose).
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  #52  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:59 PM
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I had a break in once. Nothing firearm related was stolen but at that time the landlord became aware i had them. (Not in lease, and wasn't an issue)
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  #53  
Old 06-19-2017, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael in California View Post
The rental agreement I have with my renters is silent on guns.

It talks about pets, trampolines and above ground pools. Not guns. If it ain't in the rental agreement, shut up!

I know my current renters have at least two safes. But, they are moving.

I reckon I'll need to amend my lease to require guns on the next go round.

"Renter's must have at least one firearm for each adult occupant. Firearms shall be stored at bedside and optionally in a safe in the reloading room."
And upon moving if said renters no longer wish to own said firearms, landlord gets first dibs at them.

Well played.
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  #54  
Old 06-19-2017, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
No, it's indeed the man's castle. When you rent, you have the rights of the owner. Nobody can walk in on you (except in extremely special cases, e.g., there is a flooding and nobody is home) or tell you what to do.

The "owner's rules" applies only to the terms in the lease.



They don't.

The owner wouldn't be liable for anything of the kind anyway. No different than the bank owning the mortgage would not be liable.



This is a big misconception. They can put that clause in, but it's not legal, at least not in CA. Try that on a tenant and it's about the surest way to end up in court (and lose).
I believe it could still get very expensive for the owner. I've looked around (the web) and found losses for owners, but not renters, wrt firearms unless there was associated illegal activity.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...vey-lembo-case

I found this comment on yahoo answers that I believe casts doubt on the enforceability I still believe it could get very deliciously expensive for a landlord, particularly if the NRA wanted to make an example of the little dictator...

"There have been no test cases yet about a private owning landlord putting it in the lease about gun ownership in the apartment.
The Heller Case applied to public housing that they cannot do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric...mbia_v._Heller

They can ban them from commons areas.
If not in plain site in the apartment, they have no right to search for it.
In a claim, "I fear for my safety", they go under scrutiny for adequate security in the complex, and most landlords would not take that risk.
When you sign the lease, you take possession of the apartment although they still own the common areas. They cannot take away constitutional rights in a contract.
They are ruled as not allowed on any school property, so if owned by a school, it can be banned.
If able to be reached by a minor, that would make it an illegal activity.
if discharging the weapon, you can be evicted.

The question you ask has been debated for years without a clear ruling.
Yes, they can put it in the contract. Is it enforceable? The question is what would happen in an eviction hearing. This is about contract law, and if you violated that line in the contract, can the landlord actually evict you. If it is a rented room in his home, yes.
The Castle Doctrine is upheld in CA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
Tenants and Landlord rights
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf

When can he enter:
California law states that a landlord can enter
a rental unit only for the following reasons:
• in an emergency.
• When the tenant has moved out or has abandoned the rental unit.
• to make necessary or agreed-upon repairs, decorations, alterations, or other improvements.
• to show the rental unit to prospective tenants, purchasers, or lenders, to provide entry to contractors or workers who are to perform work on the unit, or to conduct an initial inspection before the end of the tenancy

The law allows you to keep a gun in your place of residence, as quoted above.
In leasing the apartment, it becomes your place of residence.
In most cases, it gets settled before getting a judges decision.
http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/0...-kick-you-out/
http://dprogram.net/2013/08/09/color...an-thrown-out/
settled- they could not ban them at that complex."
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  #55  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:38 PM
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Thank you for the helpful answers! Im a fairly new gun owner and I very much appreciate your guidance.
I definitely feel nervous about moving my cases and my safe.
And to whom it may concern, my current landlord is ok with my guns. I didn't have them before I moved in here, so I asked him before I bought my first gun... a JM stamped Marlin 45/70 .
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  #56  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:43 PM
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How do I approach moving into a new place and having guns?

i would approach very tactically, surround the exits, stack up on the door, then breach with a 12 gauge
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  #57  
Old 06-20-2017, 4:50 AM
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Rental agreements should have must own at least 1 firearms and support the NRA... I wouldn't want anyone renting from me that doesn't support 2A with all kidding aside yeah it's none of their business if it's not on the rental agreement and if it is zip it and carry on. I'm amazed it's not obvious how to handle this on your own....good luck
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  #58  
Old 06-20-2017, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bionerd View Post
Im looking to move out from where I live but worry that the future new landlord could be a gun hater. Do i need to disclose that I have a few rifles?

Any wise words?


The only issue you may face is it you plan to bolt a safe down. You're responsible for any repairs or restoration caused by installation of a safe.


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  #59  
Old 06-20-2017, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Milsurps View Post
Read the rental/lease agreement VERY carefully. If not mentioned/prohibited in the agreement, ZIP IT ! OPSEC.


If there is a prohibition to firearms in a lease agreement, it might make an interesting fair housing case especially if you where in SF where the rent control board in fanatically pro tenant and as equally anti 2A.


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Old 06-21-2017, 4:33 AM
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@IVC is absolutely correct! Renters have owners' rights so far as the property and trespass go.
In fact, authorized guests have the same rights! It is a long-standing precedence.

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  #61  
Old 06-21-2017, 7:42 AM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post

This is a big misconception. They can put that clause in, but it's not legal, at least not in CA. Try that on a tenant and it's about the surest way to end up in court (and lose).
IVC - you seem to have a grasp of simply "in a contract/lease" vs. enforceable. You should probably apply that to your line of thinking regarding the regulation of one's personal possessions in a rental property. A lease can tell you that you can't have a belt with a buckle bigger than a quarter but you are not going to get an eviction based on a belt buckle dispute. Also, you probably have heard of something called a cure period if you are as salty as you want to appear.
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  #62  
Old 06-21-2017, 8:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Calico1404 View Post
Negative, you don't have to tell them jack. Be cautious when moving in, no one else needs to know either.
Yup, my guns are always the last thing I move usually at the end of the day on the same truck load as the last bit of cleaning supplies. By that hour it's usually dark and the nosey neighbors have gotten tired of watching me move.
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  #63  
Old 06-21-2017, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PaperPuncher View Post
A lease can tell you that you can't have a belt with a buckle bigger than a quarter but you are not going to get an eviction based on a belt buckle dispute.
Does your analysis still hold if you replace "belt buckle" with "pet?"
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
If I find out that you are lying about something on the lease, I'm kicking you out.
Do you need it any more clear?
I bet your lease agreements read like a Mayweather contract.
So in the context of this post what does your lease agreement say with regard to firearms or ammo?
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  #65  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
If there is a prohibition to firearms in a lease agreement, it might make an interesting fair housing case especially if you where in SF where the rent control board in fanatically pro tenant and as equally anti 2A.


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It usually has to be a serious breach of the rental agreement for a landlord to evict a tenant in SF and if the tenant fights the eviction, it could drag on for quite some time..... sometimes the tenant prevails if the case goes all the way to a civil trial.
https://www.sftu.org/wp-content/uplo...tflowchart.pdf
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  #66  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:39 AM
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If one owns a RAW, registered assault rifle, one needs permission from the property owner to store the gun on their property.

30945.
Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:
(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.
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  #67  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Brush Guard View Post
If one owns a RAW, registered assault rifle, one needs permission from the property owner to store the gun on their property.



30945.

Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:

(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.


Interesting observation. The fine line is "At that person's residence.........OR on property owned by another". This is going to get tested in court. No doubt lunatic SF will attempt to contort 30945 as a restriction on rental property that that forbids tenants from storing RAW in their residence without affirmative consent of the property owner.


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  #68  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:36 PM
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Loose lips sink ships. This isn't Arizona.
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  #69  
Old 06-21-2017, 5:44 PM
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I'm sure I'm about the 1,000 person to say but I wouldn't address the issue at all. And if it violates some form of lease agreement then wait for them to discover it and move out then. I've rented many an apartment over the years and I've never seen a lease agreement barring possession of firearms. Usually they are more concerned about pets and damage to the residence.
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Old 06-21-2017, 5:46 PM
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Just don't say anything.

The apartment I had in college was the same way. I just said ok, and did what I wanted anyways.
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