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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-18-2019, 4:24 PM
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Default Stock Quality Expectations

Maybe my expectations on stock quality are too high, and if so, please tell me. I am aware some fitting may be required, but do you think the things I found are reasonable for a $400 stock? This stock has an aluminum bedding block.

A 3/4" long partial shallow narrow void along top edge of foreend. Not too noticeable, unless light casts a shadow on it. If I had the right color paint (olive green), I could probably fill it in a bit at a time.

Bipod studs on forend not in a straight line (axis through both off at an angle from long axis of stock). Probably not evident at first glance if a short rail was attached, but a longer rail (ARCA) would look crooked. A long straight edge placed along the studs confirms what I saw. They are not in line with stock centerline.

Both studs are also positioned off to one side (not centered on stock). Neither issue is seen at first glance, but is evident if paying attention.

Stock thickness on either side of barrel channel toward front of forend is inconsistent left to right. This is fairly obvious if paying any attention at all. If I enlarge barrel channel, I can correct that to make it even.

I expected things like the mag refusing to seat unless the bottom metal was spaced away from the inlet by a bit, or the barrel not centered in the barrel channel, or the bolt handle clearing the back side of stock handle slot by a mere 0.002". All these can be rectified by bedding. But, I expected better on the other things. Maybe those are unreasonable expectations for a $400 stock, with such quality only found in McMillan and Manners. ???

I also bought a chassis for around the same amount, and the fit of some parts was so awful, even the maker admitted they wished it was not like that. Well good grief, then fix it!

Phil
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Old 01-18-2019, 4:55 PM
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What are the brands of the stocks ?

What action are you using ?
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:41 PM
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Buy once, cry once. Particularly after inspecting in person.
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:54 PM
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One stock, one chassis.

Bell & Carlson Target / Competition #2093 for Howa action.

The other was a chassis (KRG Bravo). The alignment of the polymer forend with the polymer butt stock is frankly, awful. And I am not the first person to mention this.

This is their X-Ray stock (more costly than the Bravo). Take a look at that panel fit just above the mag well / trigger guard area.

https://i0.wp.com/8541tactical.com/w...8_1080x543.jpg

The Bravo is here. This is from KRG's website!

https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/bolt-lift-sv/

"Buy once, cry once" has some truth to it, but unfortunately, I have experienced some pretty poor quality even with some high end firearm products, where i cried over the price paid AND cried again over the bad quality.

Would you tolerate a well know premium brand barrel maker selling a barrel with a nicked land inside the muzzle and a long spiral scratch on the barrel where some guy twisted on a gas block (AR-15)? Where is the quality control?

Phil
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Old 01-18-2019, 6:19 PM
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=770550&d=1547864224

Phil
If you buy a Robertson stock it comes with the correct Color paint for the bolt handle mortise and barrel channel so you don't see any white glass after machining. You also don't see any seams. The finish is about as good as a clear coat job over a custom paint job.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 01-18-2019 at 6:24 PM..
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Old 01-18-2019, 6:57 PM
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Anything I buy that doesn't match my quality expectations goes back.
It's not worth the long term aggravation.
Now, that being said, you may not be able to get something that you like and may have to settle for less.
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Old 01-18-2019, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
One stock, one chassis.

Bell & Carlson Target / Competition #2093 for Howa action.

The other was a chassis (KRG Bravo). The alignment of the polymer forend with the polymer butt stock is frankly, awful. And I am not the first person to mention this.

This is their X-Ray stock (more costly than the Bravo). Take a look at that panel fit just above the mag well / trigger guard area.

https://i0.wp.com/8541tactical.com/w...8_1080x543.jpg

The Bravo is here. This is from KRG's website!

https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/bolt-lift-sv/

"Buy once, cry once" has some truth to it, but unfortunately, I have experienced some pretty poor quality even with some high end firearm products, where i cried over the price paid AND cried again over the bad quality.

Would you tolerate a well know premium brand barrel maker selling a barrel with a nicked land inside the muzzle and a long spiral scratch on the barrel where some guy twisted on a gas block (AR-15)? Where is the quality control?

Phil
TBH you're getting quite a bit of features for what you pay. Obviouslly its utilitarian though. Kinda like a Glock. Finish coulda probably been better though.

Like all that aesthetic stuff isn't gonna make the bullets fly flatter.

Last edited by Varg Vikernes; 01-18-2019 at 7:16 PM..
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Old 01-18-2019, 7:36 PM
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B&C stocks are common to find defects and need some fitting. I dont use them after owning more than a dozen of them hoping the next one would be ok. HS Precision stocks are much more consistant and a higher build quality overall.
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Old 01-19-2019, 6:34 PM
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I'm going to add my .02, I've followed your various threads on several forums and it seems that you are continuously shopping every aspect of the potential build.

If you compromise on components, whether action, barrel, chamber, or stock you are bound to be disappointed at some time or other. Not every combination is perfect for all situations, best to build or purchase to suit each need.

Or be satisfied with what you have.

Best of luck in your continued search!
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Old 01-19-2019, 6:38 PM
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PS;

Lynn, I'd love to buy a Robertson stock, where might I find one for sale?
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Old 01-19-2019, 9:15 PM
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They are beautiful stocks but I think I bought the last two that John Hoover had for sale. He had four and when I called him I bought a blue and silver metalflake stock and when it arrived I called him back and bought the green will black swirl.
I don't remember his website but he would be about it unless someone has one laying around.
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Old 01-20-2019, 8:28 AM
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The Bravo is known for the panels not lining up. But it doesn't affect how the chassis performs or how the bullets fly. The studs and other things in the B&C yeah that sounds like piss pour QC, and the studs being off could effect use of you put a long rail on there.

Yes I do think your expecting a bit too much from budget parts. You know just as well as anyone else that if you want quality, pony up.
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Old 01-20-2019, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooger View Post
I'm going to add my .02, I've followed your various threads on several forums and it seems that you are continuously shopping every aspect of the potential build.

If you compromise on components, whether action, barrel, chamber, or stock you are bound to be disappointed at some time or other. Not every combination is perfect for all situations, best to build or purchase to suit each need.

Or be satisfied with what you have.

Best of luck in your continued search!
I do post on two other forums, and yes, I do shop carefully, on every aspect of a rifle build. Failure to do so increases the likelihood of disappointment or parts not working well together.

Short of buying the absolute best and/or where cost is of zero concern, there will always be compromise. In my opinion, quality of some parts is excessively poor for the price asked. And even in cases where I bought tools and or rifle parts that ARE considered the best available, several of those parts were returned (reloading press, barrel, and trigger) for poor quality, of which two were replaced by the maker for defects they admitted were unacceptable. Like I asked in the beginning, where is the quality control?

I do carefully select components, but too often, even when buying the best, the quality is bad. If people keep buying and putting up with poor quality, then makers have no incentive to improve.

My AR-15 has very high quality components, but the two best and most costly pieces on it were so defective, the makers apologized for the unacceptably poor quality and replaced them. This happens too often.

Phil

Last edited by Phil3; 01-20-2019 at 1:03 PM..
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Old 01-20-2019, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
The Bravo is known for the panels not lining up. But it doesn't affect how the chassis performs or how the bullets fly. The studs and other things in the B&C yeah that sounds like piss pour QC, and the studs being off could effect use of you put a long rail on there.

Yes I do think your expecting a bit too much from budget parts. You know just as well as anyone else that if you want quality, pony up.
I may have to move to McMillan, Manners, or a better chassis to get half way decent quality in fit and finish. I do not subscribe to any argument that poor quality in areas that do not affect bullet performance, is acceptable. If that were the case, no-one would care about a scratch in a new car when delivered. Nor would anyone pay a price premium for a Cooper rifle and the costly stocks they use.

The first B&C stock I had would not even let the action fit into the stock! The screw holes were so far off, I had a gunsmith fit it. This second one I got, I hoped was better and it does fit, but still has some issues.

I am considering just moving to ONE rifle, with a top drawer everything, and switch barrels (shouldered) when I feel like a change in caliber. And keep one 223 for fun plinking.

Phil
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Old 01-20-2019, 3:37 PM
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Phil
Buy a BAT action a Bartlein barrel a Jewell trigger and a McMillan Tooley MBR stock. 6ppc 6BR or 6x47 Lapua.
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Old 01-20-2019, 6:11 PM
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Should've bought a McMillan or Manners to begin with; not what you wanted to hear I'm sure but spend the money and you'll know what to expect.

IIRC, the forend is removable (the screws can easily strip). This way you can loosen the bolts underneath, align it, and tighten.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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Old 01-20-2019, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
Maybe my expectations on stock quality are too high, and if so, please tell me. I am aware some fitting may be required, but do you think the things I found are reasonable for a $400 stock? This stock has an aluminum bedding block.

A 3/4" long partial shallow narrow void along top edge of foreend. Not too noticeable, unless light casts a shadow on it. If I had the right color paint (olive green), I could probably fill it in a bit at a time.

Bipod studs on forend not in a straight line (axis through both off at an angle from long axis of stock). Probably not evident at first glance if a short rail was attached, but a longer rail (ARCA) would look crooked. A long straight edge placed along the studs confirms what I saw. They are not in line with stock centerline.

Both studs are also positioned off to one side (not centered on stock). Neither issue is seen at first glance, but is evident if paying attention.

Stock thickness on either side of barrel channel toward front of forend is inconsistent left to right. This is fairly obvious if paying any attention at all. If I enlarge barrel channel, I can correct that to make it even.

I expected things like the mag refusing to seat unless the bottom metal was spaced away from the inlet by a bit, or the barrel not centered in the barrel channel, or the bolt handle clearing the back side of stock handle slot by a mere 0.002". All these can be rectified by bedding. But, I expected better on the other things. Maybe those are unreasonable expectations for a $400 stock, with such quality only found in McMillan and Manners. ???

I also bought a chassis for around the same amount, and the fit of some parts was so awful, even the maker admitted they wished it was not like that. Well good grief, then fix it!

Phil
You are being too picky.
These are all cosmetic things that do not effect the INTENDED use.
The barrel being crooked in the lnlet could very well be because your barrel is not straight to the action.

You are complaining about stuff that should NOT be there on a $2500+ custom made wood stock, but certainly are common on a $400 composite stock.
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Old 01-21-2019, 5:19 AM
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Too picky indeed.

If it isn't fitted, don't expect it to fit perfectly.
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Old 01-21-2019, 5:34 AM
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Its only common with some brands. Not being too picky.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You are being too picky.
These are all cosmetic things that do not effect the INTENDED use.
The barrel being crooked in the lnlet could very well be because your barrel is not straight to the action.

You are complaining about stuff that should NOT be there on a $2500+ custom made wood stock, but certainly are common on a $400 composite stock.
I test fitted the stock with two Howa barreled actions. Both barrels are off center in the barrel channel by exactly the same amount. I concede that is still possible that both actions have barrels that are not in-line with the action, but that appears less likely now.

Phil
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:24 AM
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Thanks for the replies. My OP was for a reality check, and I got that. My own opinion is that quality should be better for the price, but it isn't, and the quality/price is what the market will accept, so that's that.

I might keep the Bell and Carlson I got for my 223 Howa (#2093). I like how it looks, the fit in my hand, and the mass of it (heavyish). It is misaligned in the stock barrel channel, but is free floating everywhere. I may have it bedded later. I have Howa 223 polymer bottom metal for a detachable mag with it that works fine.

Bell and Carlson also told me I could fill the small void on the stock with paint (that will work). For my Olive green, they told me to use paint from a hobby store. Specifically, Model Master brand, Dark Green color #FS347079.

I will not be using a lower quality stock for my 6.5 x 47 build. Looking at MacMillan now.

Phil
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:10 AM
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Go McMillan (or Manners) and you won't regret it; I love custom builds but unfortunately I only own one at the moment.





Can't wait to see your build thread once you decide to go custom.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:48 PM
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Just keep the AI in your avatar. They seem to have excellent QC.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
Go McMillan (or Manners) and you won't regret it; I love custom builds but unfortunately I only own one at the moment.





Can't wait to see your build thread once you decide to go custom.
I see Spartan Rifles on the barrel. Did Marc build the complete rifle for you, or...? What stock?

Phil
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