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  #1  
Old 04-06-2018, 4:07 PM
45 Shootist 45 Shootist is offline
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Default Border Patrol Agent Open Carry ?

My daughter is going through a divorce with a B.P. Agent. He from time to time open carries his service weapon with his badge on his belt in civilian cloths to intimidate her or others
. Can anyone tell me if there is B.P. Policy that states that off duty carry must have the weapon covered. This is in California...Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2018, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 Shootist View Post
My daughter is going through a divorce with a B.P. Agent. He from time to time open carries his service weapon with his badge on his belt in civilian cloths to intimidate her or others

. Can anyone tell me if there is B.P. Policy that states that off duty carry must have the weapon covered. This is in California...Thanks.


If you want to complain about it you can just call his station and ask for the Supervisory Agent. Then you can ask that person the question.




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Old 04-06-2018, 4:53 PM
45 Shootist 45 Shootist is offline
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They are not able to tell me much. Either they are not sure of policy or they don't want to answer. I'm a retired California LEO, now living in the free state of Idaho. Not being anywhere near a California BP station (or any BP station, I can't just go in and press for an answer like I would like to do). I feel for those of you stuck in Kali. So nice to be able to drive down the road, 40 round mag in an AR-15, one in the chamber, sitting in the front seat without even having to have a CCW or hunting license.

Last edited by 45 Shootist; 04-06-2018 at 5:12 PM..
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 45 Shootist View Post
They are not able to tell me much. Either they are not sure of policy or they don't want to answer. I'm a retired California LEO, now living in the free state of Idaho. Not being anywhere near a California BP station (or any BP station, I can't just go in and press for an answer like I would like to do). I feel for those of you stuck in Kali. So nice to be able to drive down the road, 40 round mag in an AR-15, one in the chamber, sitting in the front seat without even having to have a CCW or hunting license.
Now that is uncalled for; needless bragging about Idaho... I looked hard at moving out there but couldn’t make the pay work. Enjoy your retirement!

As for your OP; my guess is “negative” off duty. If he is genuinely carrying like that to show off your daughter needs to file formal complaints.
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Old 04-07-2018, 9:49 AM
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Now that is uncalled for; needless bragging about Idaho... I looked hard at moving out there but couldn’t make the pay work. Enjoy your retirement!
LOL
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2018, 10:31 AM
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Last edited by Endless; 04-07-2018 at 11:01 AM..
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2018, 10:32 AM
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Border Patrol Agents are LEOs and covered by LEOSA.

If he’s actually said or done something threatening beyond legally carrying his weapon, your daughter should seek a restraining order against him.


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Old 04-07-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sikvenum93 View Post
Border Patrol Agents are LEOs and covered by LEOSA.

If he’s actually said or done something threatening beyond legally carrying his weapon, your daughter should seek a restraining order against him.


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For many years Border Patrol Agents were not recognized as LEO in the state of California. My buddies with CHP couldn’t believe it. That was in the 2000s.

Now it appears they finally are recognized. It’s about damn time.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:33 PM
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For many years Border Patrol Agents were not recognized as LEO in the state of California. My buddies with CHP couldn’t believe it. That was in the 2000s.

Now it appears they finally are recognized. It’s about damn time.


Your buddies must have ignored some training in the penal code.

Border Patrol Agents fit under PC 830.8(b).
A lot of Federal Law Enforcement fits under that section of the Penal Code.



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  #10  
Old 04-07-2018, 1:32 PM
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This has very little to do with him and his law enforcement powers and everything to do with your daughter speaking to her divorce attorney about it. This is why lawyers exist.
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Old 04-07-2018, 2:47 PM
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This has very little to do with him and his law enforcement powers and everything to do with your daughter speaking to her divorce attorney about it. This is why lawyers exist.
Amen........

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  #12  
Old 04-07-2018, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sikvenum93 View Post
Border Patrol Agents are LEOs and covered by LEOSA.

If he’s actually said or done something threatening beyond legally carrying his weapon, your daughter should seek a restraining order against him.

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LEOSA allows concealed carry; it doesn't cover open carry.
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  #13  
Old 04-08-2018, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
LEOSA allows concealed carry; it doesn't cover open carry.
Border Patrol also carries under 8 USC 1357 and 19 USC 1589. This has nothing to do with LEOSA and has been around long before LEOSA. There are no places off limits under these sections, just a couple of obscure locations under federal law.
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  #14  
Old 04-08-2018, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 Shootist View Post
My daughter is going through a divorce with a B.P. Agent. He from time to time open carries his service weapon with his badge on his belt in civilian cloths to intimidate her or others
. Can anyone tell me if there is B.P. Policy that states that off duty carry must have the weapon covered. This is in California...Thanks.
The Chief Patrol Agent can restrict open carry under policy (must be covered).

Example: Going out in public not in RDU, must be covered. (Suit or plain clothes).

Different sectors, different rules. It's adminstrative.

If he is part of a unit where a polo is the uniform of the day (prosecutions, PIO, IG, etc) then generally it's open carry with badge and 5.11 pants.

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  #15  
Old 04-08-2018, 8:10 PM
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Open carry while off duty with his badge exposed?? Sounds like a real winner.

I’ll bet he’s one of those “adults” that is on Facebook every single day posting pictures of stupid krap and telling the world how wonderful he is. All just to see how many “likes” (or whatever they’re called on Facebook) he gets every day.

Sadly, a few of my “adult” coworkers are just as moronic and do the same thing. Very juvenile.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:00 PM
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sounds like a personal dispute. too many variables. on duty in civ clothes? traveling to and from his home after work during authorized donning and doffing time? showing up to wherever while on his regular days off with badge and gun? Your first sentence and second question are not necessarily related, nothing in the first sentence implies a violation of off duty carry necessarily.

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  #17  
Old 04-12-2018, 2:33 PM
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File a restraining order against him and not only will they confiscate his firearms, they will terminate his employment.
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Old 04-12-2018, 3:58 PM
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File a restraining order against him and not only will they confiscate his firearms, they will terminate his employment.

Where the hell did you hear that? You are sadly misinformed..


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Old 04-12-2018, 4:05 PM
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Cellphone video is your friend in this situation.

If Feds don't care, local news might?
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2018, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 Shootist View Post
My daughter is going through a divorce with a B.P. Agent. He from time to time open carries his service weapon with his badge on his belt in civilian cloths to intimidate her or others
. Can anyone tell me if there is B.P. Policy that states that off duty carry must have the weapon covered. This is in California...Thanks.
I just gotta ask? How is your daughters husband intimidating your daughter? She knows he's a B. P. Agent, and knows he carries a gun...

So what is "intimidating"?

I'm sorry, but this sounds like typical divorce drama where now that the relationship is in the crapper one spouse is now "intimidated" by what was not "intimidating" before the split...

Tell your daughter to just go on with her life, and ignore her soon to be former spouse and stop trying to be a problem with his employment.

As for "intimidating" others...

Let those "others" deal with their own issues.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:01 PM
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Where the hell did you hear that? You are sadly misinformed..


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Are you law enforcement? I doubt it with a response like that. If you are unable to carry a firearm, you cannot be a federal officer.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:52 PM
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Are you law enforcement? I doubt it with a response like that. If you are unable to carry a firearm, you cannot be a federal officer.
Simply filing a RO against any LEO will not result in their firing. Remember there is such a thing as due process.


If that were the case just about every time a LEO got divorced they would be fired...

Because in just about every divorce there is some sort of court order restricting what the parties can and cannot do.

AKA a "restraining order".

In this case there would obviously be no grounds for any emergency order, so if the wife were to file for a RO both parties would be required to appear in court, where a judge would decide on the limits of any order.

One of the main considerations would be the Officers employment status related to his or her access to firearms.

Without any actual evidence of wrong doing, and only wearing his firearm, I seriously doubt any judge would grant any order which could limit his ability to continue as a armed LEO.

I have also heard of situations where a RO was granted which limited when a LEO who was subject to the order could be armed.

It allowed the LEO to only be armed during his actual duty hours, and required him to leave his firearms at work.
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Old 04-17-2018, 1:24 PM
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Default Border Patrol Agent Open Carry ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobshouse View Post
Are you law enforcement? I doubt it with a response like that. If you are unable to carry a firearm, you cannot be a federal officer.


I’m LE are you?
You even have a clue?
Filing a TRO won’t stop him from working.
Where did you get your information from?

You want to compare credentials? Training? Agencies?

As SVT40 said there is something called due process. Officers can have restrictions placed upon them by their departments as to carriage of their weapons.

Mostly while only on duty and could be restricted for off duty..


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Old 04-27-2018, 4:49 AM
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You want to compare credentials? Training? Agencies?
Show me yours and I'll show you mine....LOL.

Maybe laws have changed, I retired over 10 years ago. When this law first hit California, our agency stated anyone FOUND GUILTY would not be able to carry a firearm and would be terminated.
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Old 04-30-2018, 2:16 PM
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The misinformation is sad to see.

So many still do not understand federal preemption nor have they actually read the gun control act of 68. Federal prohibitions do not apply to government employees with government firearms, see 18 USC 925a. The only exception is in 925a and it references lautenberg domestic violence convictions, not restraining orders. (g)(9) and (g)(8) are two different sections.

It also doesn’t matter what California says about anything in federal law or to federal law enforcement agencies for that matter.
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Old 04-30-2018, 3:58 PM
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It also doesn’t matter what California says about anything in federal law or to federal law enforcement agencies for that matter.
Hmmmmmm.....

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/sher...vice-of-power/

https://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/cal...dguns-for-you/
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Old 04-30-2018, 4:06 PM
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Default Border Patrol Agent Open Carry ?



The first link you posted go with the sheriff stripping powers from the forest service rangers is to write local citations and that authority is from CA PC 832 the Powers Of Arrest. The forest service can still arrest and cite you but now it would be US Magistrate cites.. you appear before a Magistrate..

As for the second link. That ruling has changed and no longer valid.. i know as i have numerous off roster firearms that i bought.

In fact now that ruling means nothing because CA PC 38000 has been amended and that law shows what agencies can buy what. And those off rosters can be sold to whom ever. Only restrictions are the new officers considered second tier..

Old news.. move along..


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Old 04-30-2018, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue187 View Post
The first link you posted go with the sheriff stripping powers from the forest service rangers is to write local citations and that authority is from CA PC 832 the Powers Of Arrest. The forest service can still arrest and cite you but now it would be US Magistrate cites.. you appear before a Magistrate..

As for the second link. That ruling has changed and no longer valid.. i know as i have numerous off roster firearms that i bought.

In fact now that ruling means nothing because CA PC 38000 has been amended and that law shows what agencies can buy what. And those off rosters can be sold to whom ever. Only restrictions are the new officers considered second tier..

Old news.. move along..

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The point you missed (I'll type slowly so you can keep up) is that the State in these specific instances did exercise control over federal agents in California, thus disproving the blanket statement, "It also doesn’t matter what California says...to federal law enforcement agencies...." Obviously, it does matter in some cases.

Best.
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Old 04-30-2018, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
The point you missed (I'll type slowly so you can keep up) is that the State in these specific instances did exercise control over federal agents in California, thus disproving the blanket statement, "It also doesn’t matter what California says...to federal law enforcement agencies...." Obviously, it does matter in some cases.



Best.


Your entitled to your opinion...


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Old 05-01-2018, 6:41 AM
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Neither had anything to do with federal agencies in regards to federal law or federal agency policy, so I’m not sure how either of those links are relevant.

Last edited by Jared1981; 05-01-2018 at 6:50 AM..
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Old 05-01-2018, 6:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
The point you missed (I'll type slowly so you can keep up) is that the State in these specific instances did exercise control over federal agents in California, thus disproving the blanket statement, "It also doesn’t matter what California says...to federal law enforcement agencies...." Obviously, it does matter in some cases.

Best.
Neither link exercises any control over federal agencies or what they do pursuant to federal law.

The Forest Service had limited SO authority under El Dorado County. All he did was revoke that authority. He, nor any California actor can or did anything involving with a nexus to federal law.

The second link was about personal firearm purchases. There is no federal preemption on the issue of purchasing personal firearms. This is nothing new or groundbreaking. This catch 22 has existed to where CBP officers in one US territory couldn't purchase any firearm other than 3 specific types of long arms, yet they could still possess/carry personal firearms they brought with them to the territory under LEOSA. They just couldn’t purchase anything new.
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Old 05-03-2018, 8:46 AM
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Many departments require off duty carry to be concealed. Even in cases where it is permitted, it is a stupid idea.

When I am off duty and armed, the moment I am identified as an LEO will of my choosing. Anyone who deliberately projects their LE status publicly while off duty has issues, is a liability, and is stupidly painting a bullseye on themself and anyone with them or even near them.
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Old 05-03-2018, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
I just gotta ask? How is your daughters husband intimidating your daughter? She knows he's a B. P. Agent, and knows he carries a gun...

So what is "intimidating"?

I'm sorry, but this sounds like typical divorce drama where now that the relationship is in the crapper one spouse is now "intimidated" by what was not "intimidating" before the split...

Tell your daughter to just go on with her life, and ignore her soon to be former spouse and stop trying to be a problem with his employment.

As for "intimidating" others...

Let those "others" deal with their own issues.
This.
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Old 05-03-2018, 1:57 PM
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My old department policy was only wear the badge while on duty or taking part in department activities. While off duty, of course I would carry just not with a badge showing...had my department ID with me all the time.

It seems wierd to wear your gun and badge while off duty..does it make him feel important?
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Old 05-17-2018, 1:21 AM
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If the BP agent is carrying exposed to intimidate, then contact the agency and file a complaint, got evidence of such intimidation ?
Your daughter married an armed BP agent, but only now is scared of him carrying? Was he carrying exposed before the divorce?
Is there more to this story or is he just a douche?

File for a restraining order, very common with divorce proceedings.
The agency will restrict his weapon for on duty use only, pick it up, go to work, drop it off before going home.
Once the order has expired he will re-gain full on/off duty use of his weapon.
They will NOT fire him, nor make him ride a desk. Lots of cops get divorced and don't lose their jobs.
I know a Fed that has gone through this.
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Old 05-17-2018, 2:23 AM
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Make a complaint to his superior.
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