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  #1  
Old 04-13-2018, 1:52 PM
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Default Hard plates over external carrier?

I just bought a level IV plate carrier setup from a coworker to protect against rifle rounds on hot calls/active shooters. Has anyone found a good plate carrier or setup to wear when already wearing an external vest? In the past I would just put them on over my uniform when I had a concealable vest, however with our new vest most of our gear (mags,radio,PC...) are located on the external vest itself. Iíve searched but have yet to find any solutions or good compromises.

And I know the other option is to remove the external vest and replace with PLate carrier however that would be last choice for liability reasons.
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Old 04-13-2018, 4:08 PM
Rogue187 Rogue187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Atomic Donut View Post
I just bought a level IV plate carrier setup from a coworker to protect against rifle rounds on hot calls/active shooters. Has anyone found a good plate carrier or setup to wear when already wearing an external vest? In the past I would just put them on over my uniform when I had a concealable vest, however with our new vest most of our gear (mags,radio,PC...) are located on the external vest itself. Iíve searched but have yet to find any solutions or good compromises.



And I know the other option is to remove the external vest and replace with PLate carrier however that would be last choice for liability reasons.


Good luck on finding that carrier. Not sure there are any plate carriers that can go over the gear vest.

If you do find one please post about it.




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  #3  
Old 04-14-2018, 1:34 AM
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I've never really heard of a solution you're looking for, and I don't think you're going to find something that will cater to your need.

Some alternatives include loading the plates in your current carrier full time (if allowable/practical), going back to your concealed carrier, or moving the gear somewhere else to allow you to slap on the plate carrier without it blocking access to your stuff.

I don't have to wear armor full time, but when I do it's with plates that is usually slick. I keep a placard inside my bag that can clip into the PC to match what I think I'm about to get into.
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  #4  
Old 04-14-2018, 6:42 AM
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Thanks for responses. I’m considering moving my mags to the belt and just putting a PC over the radio, oc, second TQ and second flashlight. I shouldn’t need that stuff when I have my rifle out anyways
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Old 04-14-2018, 5:41 PM
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External vest with a plate carrier sounds like a big cluster f*** my dept allows either concealed or external but i also run an external vest and just switch it out with the plate carrier when needed. I run almost everything on my belt, mags, baton, radio, cuffs etc. I have ar15 mags, ifak, radio and a couple of glock mags on my plate carrier
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2018, 4:02 AM
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Yea I could double down on everything except the radio. I might need to run my radio on my belt if I don’t want to have to take it off. Which I really don’t wanna do.
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Old 04-15-2018, 7:44 AM
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This is exactly why I haven't gone with a external carrier. I'm not a fan of the look with everyone standing around like Napoleon with their hands in their vests to begin with, so I have my plate carrier set up with mag pouch and IFAK, ready to throw over if needed. YMMV.
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2018, 3:15 PM
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So I think I found my solution. I will run radio on belt, ditch external carrier and run an SKD Firstspear STT with my level 4 plate carrier. I will attach an esstac Kywi m4 3 mag pouch with 2 pistol kangaroo pouches and a set of handcuffs and pepper spray to fulfill the mandatory items policy. SKD makes a soft armor insert which you can attach a separate level 3a soft armor to fulfill the soft armor policy if needed. Will be in all black and will teach a Velcro police/name tag and Velcro Badge for ID as well. This is the best solution I can think of.

https://youtu.be/L1CKW1Rtn6U Go to 8 minutes for example.

https://www.skdtac.com/FirstSpear-ST...-p/fsr.550.htm

Last edited by Atomic Donut; 04-17-2018 at 8:11 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 6:02 PM
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Your policy allows you to wear anybodyís soft armor? 2a is bare bones stuff.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2018, 8:10 PM
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Pretty much. My policy is pretty vague and states department approved armor which is 3a or higher. As long as it’s certified 3a the department usually allows it. The caveat is we get issued USArmor vests which is good stuff and the reason people don’t spend money purchasing their own. In my case, the soft armor attachment would only be purchased if admin stated soft armor must be worn ICW the hard armor on an active shooter/ critical incident plate carrier. And good catch, it was a typo. I meant to say that you can get a 3a soft armor attachment for the front side of the carrier. Changed it). And if it’s under a rifle plate the soft armor doesn’t matter anyways, more for liability. Neither 2 nor 3a make a difference when it comes to rifle rounds. 5.56 and 7.62 will go through both like cheese

Last edited by Atomic Donut; 04-17-2018 at 8:53 PM..
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:06 PM
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That just sounds like a **** show getting to your gear: radio, less lethal, cuffs, etc.

A couple of deputies that went to carriers have the IV plates in for everyday patrol. They say they don't mind it.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fal_762x51 View Post
That just sounds like a **** show getting to your gear: radio, less lethal, cuffs, etc.

A couple of deputies that went to carriers have the IV plates in for everyday patrol. They say they don't mind it.
Yeah I agree, thatís why I ditched the idea and decided on just running a second carrier (Post #8). 13-18 hour shifts with an extra 15lbs plus still no place to put extra m4 mags is not ideal for me but more power to the deputies for running it.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:52 PM
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The solution is run a carrier that takes soft armor inside with external pockets for plates. So the vest is normally worn for daily patrol with all the gears you need.

When active shooter event occurs, open the external pockets and drop in plates.

Wearing a vest over a vest is not practical and crushes and inhibits access to anything on the vest under.

If option 1 is not possible, a shield would be good second option.
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2018, 7:27 AM
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Unfortunately we are limited to a specific external carrier and do not have a choice of switching to a personal carrier for day to day use. Some guys are running the vest over the external vest as in an active shooter situation when you have a rifle out there really is no need to access OC, pistol mags, radio etc... radio should already be set to the right channel and mic is only thing that needs to be moved and that’s a simple clip. As for me, the bulkiness and extra 20+ pounds on top of my carrier is what turned me off, which is why I decided to go with the option in post #8.
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Old 04-18-2018, 9:13 PM
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Few things. Soft armor underneath hard armor does more than you think. Iíve been fortunate to be part of some some in-depth tests. Itís not just about liability, but I donít feel like typing an internet dissertation about it.

Second, plate carriers over other external carriers can be problematic. Kel-Tec nailed it with the external carrier that has the capability to accept hard plates. I think itís interesting that your department has such loose rules for the actual armor, but strict rules for carriers. Doesnít make much sense. Be mindful of deflection and obliquity angles you make when placing hard plates over soft external carriers with gear. Itís especcialy prominent on people with medium/large ďfood resivoirsĒ. Gear or bellies can push the bottom of the plate away from the body, leaving the top of the plate closer to the sternum. That makes for really bad spalling and deflection angles for incoming projectiles. Your armor can stop the penetration and backface deformation of the round, but angle shrapnel, jacket, and spalling into your neck and jugular.
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2018, 11:36 AM
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I have to disagree with you in this. Most level IV plates these days are stand alone and do not require the soft armor ICW the plates. While overseas I only wore my esapi plates in a JPC without soft plates and can personally say that they saved my life. But that’s another story for another time. Infantry dudes who were part of big army wore more armor but mostly for frag protection.

I do agree that a plate carrier over an external vest is problematic which is the reason for the post. IMO armor that meets NIJ ratings function in a similar matter which is why personal vests are allowed. The issues I see with The external carriers is the presentation. Some departments, especially ones in nicer nieghborhoods do not want to perceive militarization so they limit the external carrier style to the one that still looks like a uniform with Molle on it.

And unless the person is running steel armor (AR500) there should not be an issue with spalling. Level IV plates are made of ceramic due to weight and do a good job of catching the bullet as opposed to deflecting it. Although if running level III or III+ Steel plates, I can see how that would be an issue. I’m not saying it’s not possible, just less likely and IMO a compromise worth taking if going against a subject armed with a rifle, especially a trained subject.
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2018, 12:43 AM
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Anyone using those extremely lightweight plates UHMWPE or whatever? I want to switch to just using plates but I want to run lightweight as possible while also trying to avoid any cracking/durability problems since I am responsible for maintaining the armor. Money isn’t too much of an issue to purchase the armor but I can’t afford to replace it yearly or something if it is very price you
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2018, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
Anyone using those extremely lightweight plates UHMWPE or whatever? I want to switch to just using plates but I want to run lightweight as possible while also trying to avoid any cracking/durability problems since I am responsible for maintaining the armor. Money isn’t too much of an issue to purchase the armor but I can’t afford to replace it yearly or something if it is very price you
If you're looking to pick up some lighter plates and money isn't an issue, there are hybrid ceramic plates that are level IV and just a tad bit heavier than the UHMWPE that'll stop ALL 5.56 rounds and not just the ones from a 14.5" barrel.

At most they'll be an extra 2-3lbs per plate, but they'll be less bulky, and they'll stop most threats you'll come across in an urban environment (the hood included).

https://www.skdtac.com/Tencate-CR-20...-p/amr.907.htm

two other decent picks..
https://www.skdtac.com/SKD-Armor-10-...-p/amr.906.htm
https://www.skdtac.com/Velocity-Syst...-p/amr.208.htm

Dan
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  #19  
Old 04-21-2018, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DNA View Post
If you're looking to pick up some lighter plates and money isn't an issue, there are hybrid ceramic plates that are level IV and just a tad bit heavier than the UHMWPE that'll stop ALL 5.56 rounds and not just the ones from a 14.5" barrel.

At most they'll be an extra 2-3lbs per plate, but they'll be less bulky, and they'll stop most threats you'll come across in an urban environment (the hood included).

https://www.skdtac.com/Tencate-CR-20...-p/amr.907.htm

two other decent picks..
https://www.skdtac.com/SKD-Armor-10-...-p/amr.906.htm
https://www.skdtac.com/Velocity-Syst...-p/amr.208.htm

Dan
Sweet jeebus; so all that ballistic protection at just over 1/2Ē thick and roughly 5lbs? Thanks; iím Going to read up on these!
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Old 04-21-2018, 6:30 PM
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For the inner cheapskate... .8" thick, 5.5lbs and for the low low price of $100.

https://www.botach.com/battle-steel-...lbs-0-8-thick/

Dan
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2018, 1:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
Sweet jeebus; so all that ballistic protection at just over 1/2Ē thick and roughly 5lbs? Thanks; iím Going to read up on these!
I would look around at the rifle plates coming out right now that are designed to do your typical calibers as well as special threat ratings. Velocity Systems PBZ plates are probably the sweet spot for their capability and overall weight and width. The ULV titanium plates are also really great. I am a happy user of Velocity Systems.

Things you need to know, however:

- Most of these new plates are not NIJ rated. This is not a 'mistake' by these armor companies. As far as I can tell, this is because NIJ no longer really covers the needs of assessing how the armor defeats certain rounds. Look more into this to understand why this is now becoming more often the case.

- Spalling is another issue that is often forgotten. Research which armor assists with anti spalling.
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