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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#41
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The PC does not lie, and sometimes is poorly written. There is actually nothing to prevent a FFL from holding a gun past the 30 day period of redros, into infinity. Clearly the lack of a PC provision to prevent that was not intended, but in that absence less adept FFL's can do as they like. Some want 11 days, and that is possibly not a big deal. Those that want 11 days and DON'T MENTION THAT until the initial process is finalized, for instance Big 5 and Bullseye, are on my list and should be avoided.
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*REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING* |
#42
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#44
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To the OP , heres a novel idea . Step up to the plate and get your FFL , you'll never wait another 240 or more hours again , provided you maintain it . After you have jumped through all the hoops mandated by the state and feds just to aquire said FFL, not to mention fees and consequences of mistakes by yourself or employees you might realize then why we protect ourselves . As was mentioned its " only " one day but we have more at stake in this deal or tranfer than you. Nobody likes the way the state "plays ball" but we push on and try for better legislation in the future . Do yourself a favor and just read up on what it takes to become an FFL here and maybe you will feel our pain. As responsible gun owners we dont like the 10 day either but its the law and until something changes its what we have to deal with . On a lighter note the extra day of anticipation will make it that much more fun to take out some of your frustration on some good ole Zombie targets. Hope you enjoy your new pistol .
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#45
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Thanks for all the replies and opinions. The bottom line is that some FFL's can count to 10 and others can't.....that simple...any excuse to wait 11 days (other than a legal one) is just that, an excuse and poor customer service. I have learned my lesson that not all FFL's go the extra foot (I would say mile, but come on, how hard is it to count to 10), to make available, delivery of firearms to a patriotic, law abiding citizen not one second past the rediculous 10-day waiting period that CA imposes.
The Greatest General of all time - General George S. Patton, Jr has turned over in his grave. |
#46
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#47
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The funny thing is that the CA DOJ has said that the FFL can charge storage if the person does not pick it up right after the 10 days. It does not appear to be legal based on the law, but who knows since it does not address the waiting period.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#48
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Get it in writing.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#49
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Go to court and see what your damages are. Quote:
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If a FFL wants to only deliver firearms on a given day, they can. There is absolutely nothing in the law which says that the FFL has to turn over the firearm the second the waiting period is over. While they should do so, there are reasons which some think are good enough to delay it to the 11th day. That is their choice and your choice is to not use them.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#50
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The penal code setting the day wait sets the minimum number of days that have to pass before a weapon can be released. Nowhere does it say that at exactly 240 hours after purchase they need to deliver. I bet if you look at the paperwork that you signed, it notes on there the "Earliest pickup date" and the date is based on an 11 day wait (like Big 5 does). How you win using "contract law" when you signed a "contract" agreeing to the terms? Juyst go to places that have a 10 day wait or move to another no (or minimal) waiting state. I don't think you'll find many people on here who think that 11 days is OK, but it is a common practice.
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help. |
#51
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DOJ Bulletin |
#52
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I would say that is in writing, although it still seems to conflict with the PC, but it might be that since the person could pick it up, that is when the limit ends. Clearly if the FFL refused to deliver the firearm, they could not charge storage, since otherwise a FFL could say that they only deliver on day 28 and charge $5/day storage from day 10 to day 28.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#53
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#54
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It might not be a direct violation of the penal code since there is NO additional charge above the $10 for a transfer that is picked up at the end of the waiting period. Pickup on the 10th is the transfer, additional storage is not.
Remember, this is legalese and things are not always what they seem, but the bottom line is that the CA DOJ said that the FFL can charge storage after the waiting period ends. So, if a FFL does this, who do you think it going to do anything about it?
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#55
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Without looking up the Sections and Articles, hasn't the dealer already fulfilled his obligation to perform the PPT, plus an additional one business day. The ability to charge a storage fee after the state mandated obligation is fulfilled is appropriate since the fee is not "for" a sale, loan or transfer.
"No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm..." |
#56
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I will quote it again. Be sure to read the whole thing.
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I appreciate you guys being a devil's advocate, but the penal code is clear in three spots here. The dealer may not charge any additional fees nor over $10. However, you may charge the DROS and you may charge less than $10.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#57
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Read it again, it says that "No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or
transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this chapter". Storage past 10 days is not part of the sale, loan or transfer. Again, the CA DOJ says that it is ok (personally I would not do it) and they are the ones who would do something about it. If the person sued and the FFL brought in the document from the CA DOJ, I suspect that the FFL would win.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#58
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#59
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Because the fee is not for the transfer.
Once laws are passed they are turned over to DOJ for implementation. DOJ is the one that issued the bulletin, the same agency responsible for implementing the law. I'm guessing that this question came up in the past and DOJ answered the question. Top right hand corner of the bulletin: For further information contact:Firearms Division (916) 227-3703 |
#60
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What kills me is how the subject of 10/11 days is still discussed so often. Like many have said, just inquire about the policy in place and decide accordingly.
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Greg David Eddy's Shooting Sports (650)969-GUNS 400 Moffett Blvd., Suite F Mountain View, CA 94043 www.eddysguns.com Tue-Fri 12-7, Sat 11-5 |
#61
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The law does not say until the transfer is complete. If storage were able to be charged from the start, then it would be part of the transfer.
If the person does not pick up the firearm in 30 days, does that mean that the FFL has to do the transfer again for free? Just the DROS fee? Argue all you want, but there is the CA DOJ bulletin which you need to fight against. I assume that they have their lawyers look at it, so guess what the view is until you can get a judge to rule on it?
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#62
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#63
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Like I tell my customers when i submit the DROS and show them the time and date it was submitted. YOU MUST WAIT 10 24 HOURS BEFORE YOU CAN GET YOUR FIREARM, NOT A MINUTE EARLIER. But like last night I submitted one at 10pm and I told the customer that I will not release at 10pm but the following day. No Problems!! We know it's a pain in the a s s to wait ten days but FFL's will not risk our licenses and if adding an extra day to prevent mishaps so be it. I am small time and have the privilege to do business any time I want and can control what I do but large business is more difficult to run so the extra day is added. Enjoy your weapon when received and you will forget the extra day......
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#64
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The penal code is clear. I will quote it again for you. Be sure to read the whole thing this time and hopefully the third time is the charm. Quote:
Again, I don't really expect you guys to get it. Rocking the boat has never been some people's passion. Customers, just keep paying those fees. The DOJ said so. Then again I hang out with people like this, so who am I to bow down to the government? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=610881
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#65
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OP: Sorry for your troubles at the other store. Here at Golden State Tactical, I'd be glad to let you have you gun at 10 days plus one minute. It lets me provide you with a great customer service experience and it presents me with an opportunity for more space on my shelf for all the other folks that have learned the hard way that some gun shops ain't always the best at understanding the law and following good customer service practices. These folks regularly come to Golden State Tactical to avoid 11 day waits, made up policies that benefit the store and not the customer, poorly trained staff and the "we could care less about you 'cause there's another person in line behind you to take your place" attitude.
Its the reason I exist in Sacramento (same thing happened to me before I became a dealer) and is the reason my great customers do my advertising for me. Word of mouth advertising is free if its good and very expensive if it's bad. Dealers that figure this little tidbit out live here on Calguns (for the most part) and plan on being around for the long run. Customer service is the name of the game. Curmudgeons and know it alls will never get it until they run out of customers. . . . .Happens to businesses all the time. . . .and they can't figure out why 11 days? sheesh! Lazy dealers!
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Golden State Tactical <---click here > An FORMER Outpost Deep In the Heart of the Beast! Home of "California Compliant" AR15 Parts and Magazines and some of the lowest priced guns in the state!!! |
#66
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WWW.SANTACRUZARMORY.COM |
#67
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OP: sorry you bought something from that store. Prices are so high I wonder how they stay in business. TGR charges $36 for a ppt and you have to thumb print every page of the transaction. Wtf? |
#68
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According to the OP he will sue you for the "one minute" as the penal code specifically states 10 days. How dare you keep it for another minute!
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Frank One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375 Life Member NRA, CRPA and SAF |
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