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  #1  
Old 07-13-2018, 3:10 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Default 308 SD or Velocity

My question to everyone is, do you load for MV next or lowest SD and why one before the other?
I'm working up a new load for 308 using 175gr SMK, Varget, 1x fired Lapua brass and CCI LRP (not BR or match). I found a good starting load and CBTO for my rifle. Just finished up chronographing 5 rounds each of 10 different charge weights (.5gr increments from 38-42.5)and found some single digit SDs. It's a lot of rounds but the range was empty and I decided to take a longer lunch break today.
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Old 07-13-2018, 3:43 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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I load for hunting so I want speed(especially with non-lead bullets) and accuracy. I shoot 5 rounds over my chrono and save the target. Then move on to the next powder or powder charge. I load at or near max for my testing. I end up with excellent results for speed and accuracy. I also find that usually the lower SD tends to give better accuracy...………..but not always.
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2018, 3:52 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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I shoot F class. More LR than MR for sure but I still shoot the MR stuff.
I don't have differing loads for the differing ranges, so my long range load is also my med range load,

I load based on pressure curve or velocity plateau. (I have yet to see it proven that they are one and the same it's just a guess)

So I load rounds to find a flat spot in velocity while increasing powder charges in .2-.3 increments. I then pick a velocity close to max but about two steps off of where the velocity starts to rise again. I load those and shoot for a group, I adjust seating length to suit the bullet used and then go and shoot them at 1K or farther.

Last edited by kcstott; 07-30-2018 at 2:22 AM..
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:30 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I don't think I'll be doing any hunting with this rifle though. I pushed the 175gr SMK to about 2682fps but my SD really just shot up. No pressure signs like ejection marks or flattened primers. Should I increase the charge by increments of .3gr? I'm shooting these bullets through a 24" barrel Savage 10.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2018, 3:18 PM
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As a service rifle shooter I load for velocity.I know that ,for example I will need 2600fps with a 22" barrel and a 175gr bullet to get to a thousand.I don't care about SD when I factor in what Im shooting and my skill level.
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Old 07-17-2018, 2:28 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMiK View Post
Thanks for the replies. I don't think I'll be doing any hunting with this rifle though. I pushed the 175gr SMK to about 2682fps but my SD really just shot up. No pressure signs like ejection marks or flattened primers. Should I increase the charge by increments of .3gr? I'm shooting these bullets through a 24" barrel Savage 10.
Way to large of a step in powder charge. .3g minimum charge step then you'll find a better node, then push .1 up and .1 down from the node to further refine.
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Old 07-17-2018, 6:49 AM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower790 View Post
As a service rifle shooter I load for velocity.I know that ,for example I will need 2600fps with a 22" barrel and a 175gr bullet to get to a thousand.I don't care about SD when I factor in what Im shooting and my skill level.
Thanks! I think I'll go with a faster velocity at this point.
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Way to large of a step in powder charge. .3g minimum charge step then you'll find a better node, then push .1 up and .1 down from the node to further refine.
Right. I started with a low charge but I'll do a few more with .2 increments up to a max of 43.5. Should I be looking for a slight drop of velocity as I move up in charge weight?
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Old 07-18-2018, 8:25 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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I would go with 44grs of Varget in the Lapua case.
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Old 07-18-2018, 8:30 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
I would go with 44grs of Varget in the Lapua case.


Will do. If there’s no pressure signs, I’ll probably go up to 44grs.


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Old 07-18-2018, 8:44 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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What’s your oal and how much is it off the lands?
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2018, 6:59 AM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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I'm .020 off the lands with a CBTO of 2.210 for my rifle's chamber.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:23 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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What is your coal? Bto on smk varies too much from lot to lot to be of any value.
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Old 07-19-2018, 1:11 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Not sure what my OAL is but they fit in my AI mags. I've been measuring by CBTO for a while since it gives me more consistency when seating. OAL doesnt sit well for me since meplats vary from bullet to bullet no matter the batch or brand.
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Old 07-19-2018, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMiK View Post
Thanks for the replies. I don't think I'll be doing any hunting with this rifle though. I pushed the 175gr SMK to about 2682fps but my SD really just shot up. No pressure signs like ejection marks or flattened primers. Should I increase the charge by increments of .3gr? I'm shooting these bullets through a 24" barrel Savage 10.
Your charts are off. Build a cart with charge weight on the horizontal axis, then speed on the vertical. Then your chart plots your average speeds showing climbs and drops. Thusly looking for a flat spot.

Here's a copy of my latest chart. I ended up loading 42.5 grains.


Load for accuracy, not speed. One, faster rounds just mean you'll miss faster. Two, its more wear and tear on your compoments and barrel. There is no need to push up near max loads for a rifle your just using to shoot paper and steel. Hunting, sure I want the fastest heaviest bullet I can have. If your playing games like PRS or F-Class and want a faster bullet to help you cheat the game, then go to a 6.5 or 6 mm class cartridge.

If your loading in a flat spot and have good reloading practices your SD's will be good. My last outing with my new load I shot 10 rounds over the chrono and got an SD of 14. Good enough for me. I also gained about 30fps because the temps were higher then when I had done the original testing.
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Old 07-19-2018, 1:38 PM
OpenSightsOnly OpenSightsOnly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMiK View Post
Not sure what my OAL is but they fit in my AI mags. I've been measuring by CBTO for a while since it gives me more consistency when seating. OAL doesnt sit well for me since meplats vary from bullet to bullet no matter the batch or brand.
For mag length ammo, OAL is fine.

CBTO is good if your ammo is longer than magazine length.

FWIW, Berger and Lapua are very good but the meplat still gets dinged around during shipping
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Old 07-19-2018, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post

Load for accuracy, not speed. One, faster rounds just mean you'll miss faster. Two, its more wear and tear on your components and barrel.
Thanks NorCalFocus! I'll redo the charts after my next outing. That was my first time putting a chart together.

OpenSightsOnly, I've had awesome results with the Berger Hybrids in 168's. I have another box of the LR in 175's that I want to try as well. They're pretty pricey but its hard to put a value on this education.
Haven't tried or seen any Lapuas at the local stores though.
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Old 07-19-2018, 5:17 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMiK View Post
Not sure what my OAL is but they fit in my AI mags. I've been measuring by CBTO for a while since it gives me more consistency when seating. OAL doesnt sit well for me since meplats vary from bullet to bullet no matter the batch or brand.
SMK bto varies by as much as .060” from lot to lot so your oal does not tell me anything about your seating depth, how much case volume the bullet is actually taking up.
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Old 07-20-2018, 6:04 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
SMK bto varies by as much as .060” from lot to lot so your oal does not tell me anything about your seating depth, how much case volume the bullet is actually taking up.


I’ll have to measure the OAL once I get back to the reloading bench.


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  #19  
Old 07-28-2018, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
SMK bto varies by as much as .060” from lot to lot so your oal does not tell me anything about your seating depth, how much case volume the bullet is actually taking up.
OAL I have is 2.784. This gives me 0.20 off the lands. This jump seems to work well in my rifle. I'll be testing a few more charge weights today and see how they group. No velocity test for these as I dont want my magenetospeed to interfere.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:21 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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2.784” is awful short for being only .020” off the lands. 44grs is going to be hot. In most chambers .020” off the lands is more like 2.884”+ to the tip so you are working with a lot more case volume. I would go to a smith and have him increase the freebore or rework your load in Hornady or Winchester brass.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
2.784” is awful short for being only .020” off the lands. 44grs is going to be hot. In most chambers .020” off the lands is more like 2.884”+ to the tip so you are working with a lot more case volume. I would go to a smith and have him increase the freeb,bulletore or rework your load in Hornady or Winchester brass.
I concur!The gunsmith I use for M14/M1 work has a reamer that creates a very short throat with a coal 2.780,fine for me as its allows a few more rounds to be shot before rebarreling.
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Old 07-28-2018, 5:06 PM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
2.784” is awful short for being only .020” off the lands. 44grs is going to be hot. In most chambers .020” off the lands is more like 2.884”+ to the tip so you are working with a lot more case volume. I would go to a smith and have him increase the freebore or rework your load in Hornady or Winchester brass.
That is what I thought as well. I'll try a different caliper and load a dummy round based off ogive and then another at oal sammi specs. I'll also see if they chamber correctly. If I need to bring it to a smith I might just go with a 6.5CM.

I've loaded 10 rounds and the OAL of each is +/- .001 with this lot of 500. I still need to double check the another caliper though.
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Old 07-29-2018, 8:56 AM
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You load for best accuracy first then you check the muzzle velocity to see if your were you need to be. After that you look at your extreme spread to see how much it will influence your groups as the distance is increased.
Standard Deviation is of no use to me at all because hypothetical groups don't count only real ones do.
If your groups are good and your velocity is good but your extreme spreads are bad it's time to make a primer change.
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:16 AM
NiMiK NiMiK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
You load for best accuracy first then you check the muzzle velocity to see if your were you need to be. After that you look at your extreme spread to see how much it will influence your groups as the distance is increased.
Standard Deviation is of no use to me at all because hypothetical groups don't count only real ones do.
If your groups are good and your velocity is good but your extreme spreads are bad it's time to make a primer change.
Thanks for the info, LynnJr. From what I've read on SH and other forums, Savages tend to have issues with short throats. Not all but quite a few owners complain about it. I've put quite a few rounds of 175gr FGMM through mine without issues. No bullet seat back when loading and unloading factory ammo.
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