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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1  
Old 10-19-2017, 5:13 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Default DECLARATION OF COMMANDER DONALD BARNES

Courtesy of Michel & Associates:

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16. The “good cause” requirement allows Orange County and the State to limit the number of weapons that the public at large has access to immediately, which protects both officers and the public. Increasing the numbers of concealed weapons increases the threat and possibility of firearm violence to the community at large and to law enforcement officers.
Of course, now that Barnes is running for Orange County Sheriff he claims to be all for issuing permits. He claims to be issuing permits to 98% of applicants.
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Old 10-19-2017, 7:04 PM
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If Hutchens changed her view of CCWs (which we applaud and which seems legit given their rocketing # of CCWs over the years), I guess Barnes can sincerely change his view too. Right?

I'm not in OC so I don't have a dog in this fight (whatever fight it is).
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Old 10-19-2017, 7:55 PM
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Trump was against assault weapons before he was for them. Barnes' comments were over four years ago. He's seen the program evolve and has been part of the process. I spoke with one well regarded CCW trainer this weekend who's working on Barnes' campaign.

.

Last edited by Doheny; 10-19-2017 at 8:05 PM..
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Old 10-19-2017, 8:51 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Yep, and look how well our President has worked out. Not very well to date and while I hope Trump the best, it isn't that clear that he was the best choice for the party to run. Anyway, this is not about Trump who I voted for.

This is about someone that said something diametrically opposite a scant 4 years ago. Perhaps he legitimately has changed what he believes, but I don't fully buy his story about how his experience with the post Peruta program has changed his mind about what he said under oath. Especially given that the D.C. circuit casts doubt on the 9th's en banc decision.

Did the 9th even hold that personal defense wasn't sufficient good cause or did it only hold that concealed carry is not protected by the 2A. That and state law leaves the OCSD discretion to accept personal defense as good cause.

That brings us to this nonsensical claim of Barnes about exposing OC to liability, as if there was no such thing as sovereign immunity.
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Old 10-19-2017, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Yep, and look how well our President has worked out. Not very well to date and while I hope Trump the best, it isn't that clear that he was the best choice for the party to run. Anyway, this is not about Trump who I voted for.

This is about someone that said something diametrically opposite a scant 4 years ago. Perhaps he legitimately has changed what he believes, but I don't fully buy his story about how his experience with the post Peruta program has changed his mind about what he said under oath. Especially given that the D.C. circuit casts doubt on the 9th's en banc decision.

Did the 9th even hold that personal defense wasn't sufficient good cause or did it only hold that concealed carry is not protected by the 2A. That and state law leaves the OCSD discretion to accept personal defense as good cause.

That brings us to this nonsensical claim of Barnes about exposing OC to liability, as if there was no such thing as sovereign immunity.

In defense, likely the entire OCSD was against CCW 5 years ago....not just Barnes. Hutchens was, too....and now they issue with little fanfare at a very high rate. There's at least proof in the pudding where the current administration is promoting CCW in a pretty open way, even to the point of helping individuals craft their Good Cause.

Will be interesting to hear about Harrington's personal talk at Artemis next week. I'm SURE Artemis' Steve Lieberman will blog about the candidates soon, I trust his thoughts.
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Old 10-20-2017, 2:54 PM
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A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?
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Old 10-20-2017, 3:29 PM
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Default 2015 OCSD survey

This is interesting. Barnes ranked very good in this but it leaves some questions open. Reading about the survey, it seems that Hutchens was leaning on its makers to come up with the right opinions.

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But AOCDS didn't sugarcoat its findings. For example, Assistant Sheriff Don Barnes, who received a "very good" rank of 4.21, prompted an employee to opine, "Excels in leadership, talented, warmhearted," with three other similarly praiseful comments. One deputy, however, stated, "Educated? Yes. Opinionated? Yes. Vindictive, petty and malicious? Absolutely." The union issued a straightforward conclusion: "Survey responses indicate that he is the most respected assistant sheriff and his presence inspires deputies to perform their best. There were few criticisms, but perhaps Barnes could improve on being less opinionated."
I am not sure, but assuming the above refers to the ranking for 2016, Barenes improved his score for 2015 of 3.94.

http://www.aocds.org/files/january-2015-oc-final.pdf

I still don't trust Barnes but will keep my mind open about him versus Harrington.
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Old 10-20-2017, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?

For one, I believe Steve Lieberman @Artemis Defense said he has spoken to one of the OCSD deputies who told him that. It was in his blog....and he reiterated that at the pre-CCW course I took.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
A "very high rate". What rate is OCSD issuing at? Has Barnes said. Somehere I believe he reportedly claimed to be issuing at either 95% or 98%. Does anyone know where that came from?
My guess he got it from the CCW unit. I heard that nobody is being denied for good cause. My buddy said he heard they will work with the applicant to find something you do to meet the good cause requirements. The denials are from a lack of good moral character. The people who we don't want to have guns. You know the ones that have been convicted of crimes of violence or other lacking good moral character crimes. These applicants are the ones that most likely screw it up for the rest of us law abiding citizens by their stupid acts with their gun. Say all the BS you want, OC is pretty much a shall issue. They just don't issue to people who lack good moral character.

Chewy65 brought up the survey. What did it say about Harrington? Oh wait, he wasn't a manager so he wasn't rated. My buddy said Harrington was a nice guy but played his favorites and was quite arrogant at times. His humor offended many. He said he was a solid sergeant and knew his stuff as a sergeant. He wouldn't comment on if Harrington could run the department today. My buddy is retired too but still has many connections in the department.
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Old 10-21-2017, 8:39 PM
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Good for them if it is true that they just don't issue to people who lack good moral character. Just what does that mean? Is there any policy or guideline published by the OCSD or does that simply mean they don't issue if they don't like you? I know of at least one OC resident who was denied for lack of good moral character, but when he immediately reapplied and he was issued a permit. He never found out why he was initially denied. What gives with that?
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:04 PM
Mibairho Mibairho is offline
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Good for them if it is true that they just don't issue to people who lack good moral character. Just what does that mean? Is there any policy or guideline published by the OCSD or does that simply mean they don't issue if they don't like you? I know of at least one OC resident who was denied for lack of good moral character, but when he immediately reapplied and he was issued a permit. He never found out why he was initially denied. What gives with that?
Friends don't always tell friends the truth to avoid embarrassment. Yes, their policy is online, but looks like nothing could make you happy except Harrington getting elected. If I had to guess Chewie65, you obviously don't like the current administration for whatever reason. I'm personally happy with the way things are, and as long as they remain the same, I'll be able to renew in the future. im just a common sense kind of a person, and your friend being denied and then approved makes no sense. At least to me.
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Old 10-23-2017, 1:44 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mibairho View Post
Friends don't always tell friends the truth to avoid embarrassment. Yes, their policy is online, but looks like nothing could make you happy except Harrington getting elected. If I had to guess Chewie65, you obviously don't like the current administration for whatever reason. I'm personally happy with the way things are, and as long as they remain the same, I'll be able to renew in the future. im just a common sense kind of a person, and your friend being denied and then approved makes no sense. At least to me.
The person is no more my friend than is any CalGunner and I agree that being denied and then approved makes no sense, which leaves me puzzled as to whether the CW program for which that Barnes claims credit makes any sense. For that matter, just what is his 2A policy. His slick web site makes it appear that he supports shall issue.

Quote:
Second Amendment
I support the 2nd amendment. State law authorizes the Sheriff to issue Concealed Weapon Permits to citizens who can show good cause. In my view any law abiding citizen who seeks a permit has the right to have one issued. In the last three years, under my leadership, OCSD has issued over 10,000 permits to residents. Not one person has misused their permit. Law abiding citizen are responsible gun owners and should have the ability to conceal carry if they believe it is necessary for their personal safety.
However he takes shots at Harrington's shall issue 2A policy. Is Barnes walking the talk?

Last edited by Chewy65; 10-24-2017 at 9:03 AM..
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