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  #1  
Old 07-11-2018, 3:58 PM
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Default Braid, mono, floro... Top shot, leader...

My wife and I are going out on the San Diego next week. They said bring a 30lb rig, and a 40lb rig.

One rod I have is set up has 50lb braid, with 75 yards of 30lb mono, then I tie on 20 or 30lb floro.

The other is 65lb braid with 75 yards of 40lb mono.

My question is, if I tie on 6 feet of 30lb floro both of them, is there any difference?

Does what's behind the floro matter? Does the fish care what they can't see?

Thanks
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Old 07-11-2018, 4:02 PM
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Based on what you’ve described, my main thought is “the more connections, the more points of failure”

I personally would either skip the flouro or if you’re dead set in using the flouro then strip off the mono and replace with flouro.

I’ve never bought into the whole flouro hype but I know there are people that will disagree with me.


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Old 07-11-2018, 4:23 PM
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Eh, in 30 and 40 pound rigs a few connections are no biggie as long as they are tied properly. Personally I’d just go fluro to braid. Fluro is no joke more effective. Mono glows like fluorescent lighting underwater. I didn’t believe it till I saw the difference while diving.
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Old 07-11-2018, 4:49 PM
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You gonna be sporting the fly Xtratufs or bringing those gardener boots again?
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Old 07-11-2018, 5:27 PM
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.


Christ, now the fish know what kind of shoes I'm wearing?


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Old 07-11-2018, 6:07 PM
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No but the deckies know a cry out for extra help when they see one.

What they don't know is what it will get them.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:14 PM
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Tying 30 lb floro on both rigs makes both them both 30 Lb rigs.

Like it was said above, put 20' of 30 Lb floro directly to the braid on your 30# rig and 20' of 40 Lb floro on your heavier braid.

Just realize that you have no stretch to act as a shock absorber like you do when you use mono so be careful not to high stick your rod.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:23 PM
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All good advice, the fewer connections the better. Tie flouro straight to the braid.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:31 PM
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All good advice, the fewer connections the better. Tie flouro straight to the braid.
Yeah but then his reels not full because the 75 yds of mono is gone, i hate a reel that's not full.

Pity someone couldn't give him a pointer like this earlier......oh wait.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:37 PM
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Just realize that you have no stretch to act as a shock absorber like you do when you use mono so be careful not to high stick your rod.
That's why I use the 75 yards of mono, I need the stretch
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:59 PM
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Keep the mono, reels full of spectra do not get the benefit of the stretch from mono. If you do not change your fishing style (or possibly gear)you will pull more hooks. Flouro will make the difference in a finikey bite like we are having now so I would make sure to have it with you on the boat. You can also wait for the captain brief to see what he recommends and don't be afraid to ask a deckhand to help tie a mono to flouro connection. You can also have them check your drags to make sure they are set appropriately. With the bluefin/yellowfin/yellowtail I would fish circle hooks to keep your line out of the fishes mouth. You want to give yourself the best odds, they are getting into some large fish right now and there are large biomasses that are on the verge of blowing up. Get out there and slay them. Don't forget to tip the deckhands if they are giving you some extra help
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Old 07-11-2018, 7:00 PM
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A few years ago, when I first started to get interested in saltwater fishing I posted some questions here, and one of you guys suggested I stay away from braid as a newbie, and in fact gave me the braid/75 yards mono tip.

DH Mike, was that you?
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Old 07-11-2018, 7:03 PM
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As I posted in another thread, I've been tying fishing knots for years, so I've got that part covered.
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Old 07-11-2018, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
As I posted in another thread, I've been tying fishing knots for years, so I've got that part covered.
John Collins/ Royal Polaris knot,
flouro to braid fast, easy, strong.

Good luck on your trip, hope it's a bloody mess.

But as to your question, no flouro has the same advantage in that fish can't see it with mono or braid before it.

Think of the flouro as a leader, you really only need 3 or 4' and i tie in a new piece if it gets down to 18" or so.

Do you "need" it, do you "need" it only when the fish are finicky?

Better question is what gets you bit more after all the trouble and expense you went to to be at that rail.
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:36 PM
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So you need one rig for you and one for your wife. Sounds like a trip to fish kelp paddies with live bait. The size of the bait the boat gets that day is important to line weight and hook size. There more to the game than braid or not to braid.
I was on the San Diego a few years ago with 35 other people fishing unproductive paddies, but had the only 3 fish on the boat before anyone else had anything. Why, because I fished 20 # mono with a 20# fluoro leader with a #4 hook with the liveliest bait in the tray. Technique counts and having an old fashioned Jigmaster with quick change spools in a 20# and a 30# has done well for me.
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:14 AM
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Thanks for all the info, but maybe I'm asking the question wrong. Forget about braid for a minute.

Let's say I've got straight 30lb mono on one reel, and straight 40lb mono on the other. If I tie on a 3 foot leader of 30lb floro on both, are they effectively the same thing?
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:59 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks for all the info, but maybe I'm asking the question wrong. Forget about braid for a minute.

Let's say I've got straight 30lb mono on one reel, and straight 40lb mono on the other. If I tie on a 3 foot leader of 30lb floro on both, are they effectively the same thing?
Yes, the weakest link is going to be the 30 LB test floro. Use heavier floro on the heavier line.
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Old 07-12-2018, 6:39 AM
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I guess my way of thinking is, is if I set up one as 30, then the other as 40, then tie 30 on both of them, I can always tie 40 on the 40 if I need to.

Does that make sense?
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Old 07-12-2018, 6:46 AM
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I’m not an expert, but my way of thinking is that I spool everything i use in Baja or offshore So Cal with the heaviest braid reasonable (usually 60 or 80 on my 30# reels and 80 or 100 lb on the bigger boys) and then just change out the leader to match local conditions. That way I can fish a picky surface bite for small paddy yellows one day and 100# Baja grouper the next day with the same couple of reels. With three rods and reels I can fish anything in the Sea of Cortez, including making bait.

Unlike a lot of fisherman I see, i don’t like carrying a lot of extra rods and reels and crap with me when I fish.

I’d defer to anyone with “deckhand” in his handle if he disagrees, but my personal experience and preference is to just swap out the leader and THAT is what makes it a “30#” or “40#” setup.


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Old 07-12-2018, 6:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
Eh, in 30 and 40 pound rigs a few connections are no biggie as long as they are tied properly. Personally I’d just go fluro to braid. Fluro is no joke more effective. Mono glows like fluorescent lighting underwater. I didn’t believe it till I saw the difference while diving.
Specific to your question, aside from the considerations above, you want to ensure that the two lines are not too dissimilar in diameter. You also want to be sure to use connecting knots with high breaking strength and are tied and cinched properly.

It isn't a bad approach to have mono connected to your spectra, with a fluorocarbon top shot tied on tone mono, as braid doesn't stretch and flouro has little stretch and no memory. Mono can introduce a little shock absorber effect, which can be beneficial under some circumstances.

However, I myself also subscribe to the less is more theory and always try to minimize the number of connections. I use hollow braid, so most of my splices are made knotless between the spectra and leader.

You'll likely be targeting yellowtail as the premier species, and they will test your terminal tackle.

Good luck!
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Old 07-12-2018, 7:41 AM
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Thanks, the line to line knot I use is the Billy V knot (he taught it to me )

You lay the two lines next to each other, then form a simple loop, stick two fingers thru, twist three times, grab the leader and tag, pull thru, lube it, and pull tight.

In my completely non scientific testing, the line always breaks first, and the knot holds.
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Old 07-12-2018, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sbsyncro View Post
I’m not an expert, but my way of thinking is that I spool everything i use in Baja or offshore So Cal with the heaviest braid reasonable (usually 60 or 80 on my 30# reels and 80 or 100 lb on the bigger boys) and then just change out the leader to match local conditions. That way I can fish a picky surface bite for small paddy yellows one day and 100# Baja grouper the next day with the same couple of reels. With three rods and reels I can fish anything in the Sea of Cortez, including making bait.

Unlike a lot of fisherman I see, i don’t like carrying a lot of extra rods and reels and crap with me when I fish.

I’d defer to anyone with “deckhand” in his handle if he disagrees, but my personal experience and preference is to just swap out the leader and THAT is what makes it a “30#” or “40#” setup.


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That is the simplicity of using a glass rod with braid to a flouro leader once you put obsolete graphite rods and mono behind you but i'm confused.

In post #2 you show your aversion to flouro at all, by "leader" do you mean you're using a 3-4' piece of mono on your braid or are you talking about stripping off a topshot while out on the water?



I "could" catch fish with a cane rod, linen line, and a cat gut leader.

People using mono and graphite rods are still going to catch fish as they always have.

Both are no longer optimal.
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Old 07-12-2018, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Thanks, the line to line knot I use is the Billy V knot (he taught it to me )

You lay the two lines next to each other, then form a simple loop, stick two fingers thru, twist three times, grab the leader and tag, pull thru, lube it, and pull tight.

In my completely non scientific testing, the line always breaks first, and the knot holds.
Surgeons knot,

i imagine by now you've learned that's the best knot to tie in a new tippet at last light fly fishing as well huh?

Fast, easy, pretty strong.
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Old 07-12-2018, 9:48 AM
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In post #2 you show your aversion to flouro at all, by "leader" do you mean you're using a 3-4' piece of mono on your braid or are you talking about stripping off a topshot while out on the water?



It’s not really an aversion per se; I’m cheap, practical, and lazy. I usually put 10 yards or so of mono over the braid and call it good (less if I’m fishing swimbaits for calicos in the kelp). I spent a lot of money on flouro back when it was the hot new thing and it didn’t seem to make too much difference in my catch rate so I rarely use it now. Could just be my skill level.

My approach seems to work well enough to keep my freezer full. And when the fish don’t bite, I force-feed ‘em a steel shaft.





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Old 07-12-2018, 10:11 AM
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Surgeons knot,

i imagine by now you've learned that's the best knot to tie in a new tippet at last light fly fishing as well huh?

Fast, easy, pretty strong.
It's actually called a Seaguar knot. Never heard of it before.

https://www.seaguar.com/applications...guar-knot.html
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:42 AM
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It's actually called a Seaguar knot. Never heard of it before.

https://www.seaguar.com/applications...guar-knot.html
Oh i see,

it sounded like you were describing the surgeons knot.

Consider the Jc/Rp knot.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=john+colli...ai=RiSik3Jqs7M

optimal.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:47 AM
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Back to back Uni knot is great for lighter line classes, up to about 40# from my experience. I've used it since it came out back in the 80s, have used it for saltwater and freshwater applications for 4# - 60#, use it a lot for my connecting and splice knots, and can tie it with my eyes closed in 10' seas.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sbsyncro View Post
It’s not really an aversion per se; I’m cheap, practical, and lazy. I usually put 10 yards or so of mono over the braid and call it good (less if I’m fishing swimbaits for calicos in the kelp). I spent a lot of money on flouro back when it was the hot new thing and it didn’t seem to make too much difference in my catch rate so I rarely use it now. Could just be my skill level.

My approach seems to work well enough to keep my freezer full. And when the fish don’t bite, I force-feed ‘em a steel shaft.





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So you tie in a lighter leader of mono onto your existing 10 yards of mono as the bite dictates

(limited by the size of your 10 yards of mono)

or change out the whole 10 yards?

See what i'm getting at?

I carry a selection of flouro from #20 to #100 and my consideration is the power of the particular rod, whether i would prefer more abrasion resistance or how line shy the fish seem to be.

It's just a leader,

in this way i retain all of the other advantages to fishing without mono.

Full disclosure:
Iv'e caught a total of 7 bluefin, all were under #25 and all were on the same morning my first time fishing tuna.

I had the good fortune to catch the first fish and have 3 on the deck before anyone else caught a fish, by that time most everyone switched to butt hooking them as i was.

After a couple of fish i started using different rods i had brought onboard in the same way a hunter "bloods" rifles.

One of the rods was a graphite rod with the usual braid flouro setup.

I saw immediately that it was a very "hard" rig and backed off on the drag big time.

It worked fine,
just had to go easy but i don't know if a big fish might have pulled the hook for wearing a big hole, i suspect it would.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:10 AM
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I put 80 lb braid or spectra with 50 yard top shot of 30 and 40 on my single speed avets. On my larger internationals 100 lb spectra with saimp barrel swivel and fluoro of desired size. On my 12t 2 speed . I put 40 fluro direct to spectra
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:39 AM
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75 yard Mono topshot on all my setups, except a few Kelp Cutter rigs. Helps with undoing tangles, protects my fingers, and is cheap to replace every few trips.

Everything except jig stick gets a floro leader. 15 and 20lb outfits are straight mono, maybe some fluoro if they are really picky.

But I also bring 5-6 rods on a 3/4 day, and would bring more if I could.

Also, a heavy graphite rod matched with braid = best rockfish rig I've ever had. You can feel everything.
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Old 07-12-2018, 1:44 PM
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Don't forget your bait will be pulling your line through the water. 30lb floro to 50lb braid will keep your bait more lively then 30lb floro to 80lb braid.
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Old 07-12-2018, 1:57 PM
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I would go all braid to 6 feet of fluorocarbon leader. Less knots going through the guides. Also, when fishing bait it is easier to feel your bait swimming then if you have mono. Also easier to feel the bite. I only use mono on troll rods or jigs. Get rid of any green braid. The San Diego is a great boat if the crowd is less than 35.
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Old 07-12-2018, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbsyncro View Post
I’m not an expert, but my way of thinking is that I spool everything i use in Baja or offshore So Cal with the heaviest braid reasonable (usually 60 or 80 on my 30# reels and 80 or 100 lb on the bigger boys) and then just change out the leader to match local conditions. That way I can fish a picky surface bite for small paddy yellows one day and 100# Baja grouper the next day with the same couple of reels. With three rods and reels I can fish anything in the Sea of Cortez, including making bait.

Unlike a lot of fisherman I see, i don’t like carrying a lot of extra rods and reels and crap with me when I fish.

I’d defer to anyone with “deckhand” in his handle if he disagrees, but my personal experience and preference is to just swap out the leader and THAT is what makes it a “30#” or “40#” setup.


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This can work within the limitations of the rods and how they shut off. Fishing 25# on a 50# blank focus more line load on the tip guide instead of distributing it across multiple guides.

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Old 07-12-2018, 2:15 PM
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I don't know about you guys, but for local Coronado type fishing...I'm starting with a 20# top shot of flouro....Most of these fish are 20 & under...your 20 will get bit a lot more. You can always work up from there if necessary. My career best yellow came on a 226 Newell spooled with straight 20# mono....42 lbs
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Old 07-12-2018, 2:21 PM
luckylogger6 luckylogger6 is offline
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keep in mind braid has a breaking strength much closer to the rated Lb than mono, but my rule of thumb is 50lb braid for 25-30lb rigs, 65lb braid up to 40-50lb, and 80lb braid for 60-80.
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Old 07-12-2018, 2:26 PM
luckylogger6 luckylogger6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerman View Post
I don't know about you guys, but for local Coronado type fishing...I'm starting with a 20# top shot of flouro....Most of these fish are 20 & under...your 20 will get bit a lot more. You can always work up from there if necessary. My career best yellow came on a 226 Newell spooled with straight 20# mono....42 lbs
That's a hell of a yellow for 20lb (for any line class really). I would start at 25 or 30 and go up or down accordingly.
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Old 07-12-2018, 2:27 PM
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Wow man good grief that's way heavier than I ever used. I used 6 pound braid for catching 15 pound steelhead. I always go ultralight so I think 25 pound braid to 50 lb mono is darn near correct. I know I'm going to get told I'm wrong on this but braid is so much stronger than mono or fluoro I will usually use a smaller gauge braid for a heavier mono or fluoro in virtually any rig I use. For catfishing I use 6 to 15 pound braid and 20 pound mono or fluoro as a leader
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Old 07-12-2018, 3:03 PM
luckylogger6 luckylogger6 is offline
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Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
Wow man good grief that's way heavier than I ever used. I used 6 pound braid for catching 15 pound steelhead. I always go ultralight so I think 25 pound braid to 50 lb mono is darn near correct. I know I'm going to get told I'm wrong on this but braid is so much stronger than mono or fluoro I will usually use a smaller gauge braid for a heavier mono or fluoro in virtually any rig I use. For catfishing I use 6 to 15 pound braid and 20 pound mono or fluoro as a leader
Maybe you are going off the diameter thickness not the rated strength...I'm not even sure I've seen 6lb braid.

Anyway most mono will break way above its rated breaking strength. Often 25-40% more. spectra usually breaks much closer to its rated strength so in So. CA style fishing most will run heaver rated braid to mono/floro.
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Old 07-12-2018, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by luckylogger6 View Post
Maybe you are going off the diameter thickness not the rated strength...I'm not even sure I've seen 6lb braid.

Anyway most mono will break way above its rated breaking strength. Often 25-40% more. spectra usually breaks much closer to its rated strength so in So. CA style fishing most will run heaver rated braid to mono/floro.
Cabela's locally has 6 lb braids and it's freaking awesome. That's what I use almost as my all-around especially for Bass and trout. I've never broken braid and it's sheer tensile strength ever other than breaking off on a rock
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Old 07-12-2018, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
A few years ago, when I first started to get interested in saltwater fishing I posted some questions here, and one of you guys suggested I stay away from braid as a newbie, and in fact gave me the braid/75 yards mono tip.

DH Mike, was that you?
Maybe, have you learned to cast yet? If you f up casting braid it's going to be a mess. That's why I suggest mono top shot for newbs. I hope you've changed out your mono every year. Either way with 30 or 40 pound rigs it's all preference. With line that light it's more about drag management. If a fish can be caught on 30lb it could be caught on 10lb properly played. You shouldn't be stressing the line to max pressures.

Last edited by deckhandmike; 07-12-2018 at 4:48 PM..
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